Why Starbucks doesn't advertise its cheaper "short" drink size

Tim Harford explains: "If some of your products are cheap, you may lose money from customers who would willingly have paid more. So, businesses try to discourage their more lavish customers from trading down by making their cheap products look or sound unattractive, or, in the case of Starbucks, making the cheap product invisible." (Slate)

Comments

[Drinker]

I suggested putting the Short size on the menu and launching an ad campaign around it in the second to last comment in this thread:

http://starbucksgossip.typepad.com/_/2005/12/claim_starbucks.html#comments

The Starbucks website doesn't provide nutrition information for the Short size, further evidence of its orphan status. Clue for Starbucks: Many of your more sophisticated consumers do not want to ingest a 200-calorie tall espresso drink (like the latte or no-whip mocha, both 200+ calories in a tall).

On the other hand, I don't know what the writer is talking about when he says Short drinks are announced in a whisper. Of the 3-4 short mochas I have consumed, each one was called out clearly on both order and pickup. If people start asking for it, I am pretty sure Starbucks will put in on the menu.

[Drinker]

PS that tall latte does go down to 120 calories in its nonfat version, but that's still about 15 minutes on the stationary bike at the gym.

[Lou Sussler]

I enjoyed the article as it didn't just focus on Starbucks but rather described the marketing principle in question.

After reading it, I ran right across the street and came back with a short decaf cap. and I was very impressed with the stronger coffee flavor than the larger drinks.

You gotta love it.

[MGR]

Though a fascinating article, and most likely containing seeds of truth, I highly doubt that Sbux would lose a bunch of money if it put Shorts back on the menu board. Tall drinks are already by far the least-requested size. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Mega" ends up launching, since Americans want as much product as they can stuff in their fattened craws.

[CuteBarista!]

slate always has good articles like this. i've been reading the site for years, and it's never disappointed. glad they didn't succumb to usual Starbucks bashing that's become the status quo (and highly tiresome) in articles like this.

short is cool. if i am going into a Starbucks and not working, it's the size i always order (come to think of it, when i'm on duty it's usually what i drink as well). the way i see it, no one needs that much caffeine, espresso OR sugar. but i know i'm obivously in the minority here.

and the article is right about making venti cappuccinos properly...as in, you can't. free pouring 20 oz of steamed milk and expecting it to be half foam defies physics.

I manage a licensed store. Ironically, the company I work for screwed up our new Winter Phase I touch screen menu so now we offer the super-venti. If only I had the cups, I know people would buy it. As for the short, my company only allows certain drinks in the short -- coffee, latte, cappucino, promotional beverages. We are happy to provide anyone with a short, we just have no way to ring them. Do company-owned offer shorts for all drinks on the register? I'm pretty sure the recipe book has a short drink for all of the hot drinks.

[-m]

This whole "Mega" size has been floating around for the last 5 years. Don't worry though, it will never happen. There is no customer demand for a larger size.
MGR, the tall cups may not be the best seller at your store, but that is the most popular size at my store. We also go through a good deal of shorts. I am pretty confident that, on average, the tall out-sells the venti (excluding fraps). Of course, your location will have a lot to do with that.

[MGR]

I suppose that's what I get for living in the fattest city in America. Also, on average, grandes are over half of all espresso bev sales in the company.

[Fat Little Pug]

The important thing to remember here is that the Starbbucks sizes used to be short, tall, and grande. Customers demanded a larger size, and the Venti (Italian for 20) was born. We did at one time have all four sizes on the menu, but it became confusing for customers, and a pain in the ass to put up all the tiny price menu chips that we used to have to use back then instead of poster-style inserts. So, the short came off the menu. It's always available and certainly no secret. The only reason it's not offered anymore is that customers demanded the larger size, not because Starbucks was trying to hide a cheaper size. People will try to think up any stupid thing to bash the Buck.

[cornfrost]

Grande, as we all know, is the default size that the till uses if you don't punch in a different size. As I recall, the default changed from tall about four years ago.

Here's an inconsistency: The menu board includes a kiddie-size cider, but the till won't let you ring up any such drink.

[cornfrost]

...kiddie size being short, for those who don't know. And kiddie-size whatever costs a lot less than short.

[-m]

I don't think 16oz is an unreasonable amount of latte. I'll still keep to my short coffees.

[~~]

you can ring in a kiddie-size cider by using the "bulk juice" button.

[megan]

Personally, I think that the SHORT drink size is not listed on the menu because it is very rarely ordered. The TALL is the least ordered size at Starbucks, so I don't think they are going to try to advertise an even smaller version of the not-so-popular TALL. The savings in price would be so little, that I highlt doubt people would care they were saving a few cents. Thats just what I think though?

[Boston Starbucks Rebel]

I always recomend a double short latte. But also, be aware of the per unit price. If you order a venti, in the end you do save money because getting like a two shorts would be in fact more expensive. You save a dollar I believe if you order just a venti instead of two short lattes. If people bought more short beverages I believe that Starbucks would overall make more money. Remeber its the unit price not the retail price that actually shows where the really profit is. Thats why I sometimes get a venti coffee so I can get a refill and actually save even more money. HAHAHAHA!

[Melbourne barista]

It's interesting to compare the different experiences in Australia: here, the default in the register is TALL, not GRANDE and tall is overwhelmingly the most popular size. However, our store has quite a few regulars that come in every day to have their SHORT cappucino. Australian coffee drinkers in particular seem far more accustomed to a smaller size of coffee and are definitely still adjusting to VENTI, which is seen as a massive joke to many customers! We still get many customers asking the inevitable "do you have anything smaller?" since we took the SHORT cup off the menus and away from the display.

[melbourne barista]

P.S. I quite like the SHORT latte: it has the same amount of espresso as the TALL (1 shot) but less milk, so the coffee flavour is much more intense. We also have a few regulars that order a double short latte for that extra strong taste!

[Sandy Watson]

I read a nearly identical article a couple of weeks ago, and decided to try the short cappuccino. I was told that the short cups were only for kid drinks. They wouldn't sell it to me. I really appreciated the "Don't be such a cheap bastard" tone, too.

[Short-lover]

That's their just-say-yes, legendary service policies in action.

I think it just comes down to the fact that most people here don't go for small sizes. When I went to Japan, they actually don't have venti on their menu. It's short, tall, and grande. You can get venti of course, but nobody ever does. And short is, by far, the most common size there. I remembered just about every time I went into a busy Starbucks and ordered a venti drink, when they were putting out all the drinks on the counter, mine was like the single venti towering over everyone else's short... lol.

I'm not so sure there will never be a demand for a bigger size though. Dunkin' Donuts and Gloria Jeans are already serving 32-oz iced drinks.

[CuteBarista!]

"do you have anything smaller?"

now there's something you'll never hear in America.

the problem i've found is when i go to a store that isn't mine, they quite often don't even HAVE short cups.

and ps, i actually worked at a licensed Sbux before the Venti. god. it's been a long coffee journey for me.

[shannon]

Actually the "short" size was originally just for the "kids" drinks.

[cornfrost]

Today a customer ordered a short coffee, having been reminded that size existed because he saw Tim Harford on C-span or some tv show.
Our shift supervisor said he noticed an upsurge in short-drink orders today.
I wonder if, in fact, Harford's exposure of the short size is leading more people to order it.

[QC Latte]

"Actually the "short" size was originally just for the "kids" drinks."

Shannon, on what do you base that statement? I would argue your POV based on experience working with Starbucks in 1994-96. The menu offered "Short", "Tall", and "Grande". Near the end (after the introduction of Frappucino) came the "Venti". And, as noted, the chip based menu boards became cluttered and confused.

Are you claiming that at some point before that the menu only offered tall and grande with the short cup being called "kids'"? I find that very interesting, and would appreciate the opportunity to read up on that bit of trivia, as I hate to be in the dark about the lesser known bits of trivia concerning the company ;-)

[Christy]

I read a similar article at: http://www.slate.com/id/2133754/

That article talks about how the short cappucino tastes better then it's venti counterpart because "The problem with large cappuccinos is that it's impossible to make the fine-bubbled milk froth ("microfoam," in the lingo) in large quantities, no matter how skilled the barista. A 20-ounce cappuccino is an oxymoron".

Any baristas that can chime on on the truth of that?

Christy, I think it is entirely possible to pour a 50/50 Cappucino at 20 oz. The trick I learned is the amount of milk that is used when steaming the milk. With a venti, use roughly 15-16 oz. of milk and steam until the roughly inches about a 1/4 inch from the lip. Perfect free-pour
Our store still pushes the importance of a cappucino because of the high call during mid-day rushes.

Sandy-- is it possible you were at a licensed Starbucks location? Like the ones inside grocery stores or airports? Because those locations have different register systems and I know some I've gone to have been unable to ring up short drinks. Any corporate location should be willing and able to sell you a short of anything.

About venti caps...a good barista should be able to make enough good foam to make a cap 50% foam and 50% milk in any size. What makes venti caps less authentic is not the proportion of milk to foam but the proportion of coffee to both. A venti cap only has 2 oz of espresso to about 9 oz foam and 9 oz milk. A traditional cap would be about 30% each. That's why a short cap is the "best"--it's closest to the traditional proportions.

[Drinker]

Megan and Boston, It's not about price. It's about not gaining weight, or gaining it much more slowly. And it's about moderation.

When you work out, you learn that everything you eat has a "cost" in terms of "time I must sweat and struggle to work off this stuff." Now, when I go out for a juicy prime rib, or barbecue, or a couple of beers, I don't stress too much, because it is a rare treat, and soooo very worth it. Habit foods, on the other hand, like coffee drinks or Coke or pastries, I watch very closely, because the calories pile up quickly day after day and, compared to a steak or creme brulee, it's just not worth it.

[coffee-slinger]

I can honestly say... it is completely possible to make a free-pour 20oz Cappuccino... as stated in someone elses post... it's all about knowing how to make it... with the immersion of the automated machines i admit... much of the art of being a barista has gone to the wind... however there was a big push about a year ago or so in some areas for drink quality to be a number one priority... and as far as i know, still is... conversely... with the automatic Verismo's and the Magistratas (to start appearing in the near future), the steam liquids at a higher pressure... which makes it easier to make that thick, lathery foam that is so covetted by italian style coffee officianados.

In addition.. yes... the World Barista Competition says 5-6oz for their cappuccinos. however, you can hardly compare an international standard to american standards... look at the car industry for instance. The overwhelming majority of cars in foreign countries are significantly smaller than the gawdy monstrosities most people drive around here. I highly the starbucks is discriminating against the short size. At the stores i have worked in, while the short size wasn't on the menu for most of them, there was no shying away from announcing as clearly as any other drink the cup's size name. so say such is to create a standard based a solitary experience in one location. Which, invariably could easily have been a new partner, unfamiliar with the sizes and/or calling procedures. But most people see that big venti size, and they get all wide-eyed. those who are excessively health conscience should think about drinking a strong cup of tea, instead of complaining about the high calorie content of their triple-grande-extra-caramel-caramel-macchiato, or whatever.

Anyone who has been around bux for long enough to see it evolve and grow up have the same opinion... it was a good coffee shop when it started, and it was a child in a competing market where the priceset was already there. And now people look for any reason to pick it apart brick by brick because they have a personal grudge, or just the need to be negative. To those of you who have the sense to realize that one experience at a store does not dictate the entire company, and that one fool's ranting is yet another in hundreds of attempts to knock down a good company... i commend you... to the rest of you blind fools who take everything as it's handed them and lack the drive, or are just plain too lazy, to take the time to confirm or deny information given as "fact", grow up. If you've got beef with a specific location fine... don't go there, call the district manager, the company takes valid customer complaints very seriously and generally acts very promptly. if you have beef with the company itself fine. don't go back! be an adult, find somewhere that you can go to find a product you like. but please, don't rant about the evils of a company and then drop hundreds of dollars a year into... that's just hypocritical, and immature.

[Melbourne barista]

Just chiming in agreement that it is definitely possible to pour a 50/50 venti cap - yes, it's harder than, say, a tall cappucino but most baristas can do it.

That said, I've found in Australia that customers are definitely NOT used to the whole 50/50 milk/foam thing. I've lost count of how many times a customer has lifted up their cup and been shocked with how light it feels at 50/50. I guess that's why lattes are far more popular than cappucinos, at least in my store.

[Joe]

Wow Conspersoy therois huh surounding the elusive short cup. well the short cup is the size of a dixie cup by the way real tiny and we do advertise it on the bored under the kids drinks like kids hot chocalet they have done that for as long as I have worked for starbucks(almost three years). I offer the short cup when ever someone ask for a small drink mostly I get people lauphing at how small it is. I get comments Like ( I would feel rediculous drinking out of that. sniker snicker)or you got to be kiding me. In a nation that like biggie sized drinks people lauph at the small size oh and by the way thier are two sizes smaller than the short the chantico cup which is 6 ounces soon to be discontinued and the demitasse which is about three ounces used for sampling or when people want on ore two shots of straight esspreso. How about we add that on the menu. a Demitasse Mocha mmm filling. ths short cup is not known because most people want more then 8 ounces of a drink (remmeber dixie cup size.) The thing is the tall size is not that popular either (12 ounces) grande is what we get the most order's of then ventis then talls. short is just kinda the runt of the family that no one cares to take with them. It is true starbucks would rather have you buy a larger size but I dont believe thier is a effort to squash the short cup if so they would just phase it out.

Viva la Demitasse Mocha
(please dont ask for a demitasse mocha thier is no way to ring that up all it well do is cause confusion. The world well turn in side out and time well stop as we know it)

[JavaJilly]

Short is still very popular over her in Canada. Venti's are slowly catching on but a lot of people laugh at how huge it is....it's pretty disgusting if you think about how much moo juice (milk) and syrup and whipped cream and etc. etc. you're consuming in such a HUGE cup.

One of the things that drive me crazy are the wet and extra-wet and super-extra-wet cappucinos that people order! Get a flippin' latte! Or if you want more coffee flavour than a latte of that size then dowsize! GASP!

By the way does anyone get stunned looks their on customers faces when you inform them that "Actually the grande and the venti have the same amount of espresso."?? I always assumed they would be able to taste the difference...never assume I guess.

[Lyra]

I ordered a short peppermint mocha yesterday after reading all the comments about the short cup. Stronger espresso and peppermint flavor; I may have to order the short more often. Thanks!

[Coffee Master]

@Javajilly: I totally understand the 'wet cappucino' frustration - do you also get the 'extra dry latte' customers...same issue! And I get a lot of stunned faces when explain that it's basically a cappucino!

I'm in England, and our automatic size for all drinks is a tall...not grande. I've never come across that.

We don't sell many short drinks in my store, although one of our regulars has her half shot short skimmed latte at least twice a day! The short isn't advertised on our menu, but isn't popular when we offer it either. Though it can cause arguments when an adult asks for a kids size and it's slighty more expensive than stated (despite the note on the menu about a kids drink being for an under-12). I find that frustrating, but is fortunately rare.

On the whole free-pouring of a perfect venti cappucino...it can be difficult when you're not very experienced, but like all things it comes with practise. That's why the stores have coffee masters like me - we're there to educate our partners as well as our customers. Some people learn quicker than others too, but you should always be able to get the drink you want. Remember - if it's not right let us know and we'll re-make it!

[BaristaIND]

as a barista, i can say that we don't even offer our short. if someone asks for short, we say i'm sorry we don't carry that anymore and all we have is tall.. we only use the short cups for the kids beverages... instructed to do so.

[BaristaIND]

as a barista, i can say that we don't even offer our short. if someone asks for short, we say i'm sorry we don't carry that anymore and all we have is tall.. we only use the short cups for the kids beverages... instructed to do so.

[LeftyGrrrl]

I make fantastic 20 oz cappuccinos, thank you very much. It is quite possible when you know what you're doing. Also, I find that is better to start with more milk (15-16 oz as stated above) in order to not make it too dry. You'll have some left over - but who cares? The drink will be perfect.

I think that some baristas don't remember that Venti (which is trademarked, unlike the other more coffeehouse-typical sizes) was the fourth size are baristas who perhaps didn't have Starbucks in their area back when Shorts were on the menu. Starbucks wasn't in St. Louis until 1998 or 1999. And Ventis were rare - I mean a grande is huge! The only Venti drink I can handle are the iced teas. That's it.

To those with poor management: If your manager won't let you sell shorts, they are not following Starbucks standards. Sell them anyways. If they won't order Short cups, just give customers the Short size in Tall cup. Simple. "Just say yes," remember? Remind your manager of that.

You can always transfer to a different store or call the anonymous compliance line. There is no reason why Starbucks (or their managers) should be short-changing (pun intended) their customers.

[cleopatra]

hm hm hm my store never had problems with that short cup thing. people know about it. gues here in canada people do not shy away from smaller cups. my problem is when people ask for kids hc but with a normal temperature. my response to that is any wc on your "short" hc ihihih. and about venti cap it really comes with time, on the other hand venti soy cap, well that is another story hahah, and also as a coffee master i try to teach all the new people how to always make a great cap

[Barista to the Stars]

Freepouring a perfect Venti cappucino is possible -- I do it every shift I work. Practice, practice, practice kids. Freepour is the only way to make a good cappucino. If you're spooning foam on top, it ain't right. Customers ask me to make their cap when I'm working register.

Just reading these comments makes me wonder if the whole "baristas don't deserve tips because they have no real skill" crowd has read this thread.

[Java Junkie]

Why the assumption that venti automatically=overconsumption of milk and sugar? I get the venti Americano, which I sweeten with splenda, and believe me, I'm glad to have the extra caffeine on hand. In fact, I recently found a local coffeehouse that offers a 24 oz coffee for cheap, and I've been getting that. It's tasty and it has enough caffeine even for me.

[Great&Wise Coffeemaster]

"Viva la Demitasse Mocha
(please dont ask for a demitasse mocha thier is no way to ring that up all it well do is cause confusion. The world well turn in side out and time well stop as we know it)"

Try a Solo Mocha Sauce Espresso Machiatto Con Pana. It can be done, and I would love to be asked for one. I can ring it correctly, and it would make an exceptional drink.

Here's a nonproprietary tip on making excellent cappucino milk for a free poured venti. Densely foam the milk until the pitcher becomes room temperature, then fully submerge the steam wand. If you pour directly after steaming it will be cauppucino perfection. It works in the short, tall, grande, and venti size. Good luck.

[venti wm]

I have a school project extra credit assignment. Which Starbucks drink was recently discontinued? and why?
Starbucks wouldn't tell me so I hope someone can! Thanks

[STARBUCKS GOSSIP webmaster]

This is what they're giving extra credit for in schools?! Sheesh!

(The answers are CHANTICO, and slow sales.)

[Miami Barista]

WOW.... WAAAAY TOO MUCH CONFUSION HERE

Starbucks Sizes Cheat Sheet Answers ;) :

Starbucks started with just TWO sizes: The Short and the Tall. Makes sense, right? Cute names and all. After that, they ADDED the Grande, and that was the biggest size at the time, therefore 'Grande' (meaning 'big') became the name. The last cup size to be added was the Venti, which is a Latin word for "20." This again makes sense, because the Venti size holds 20 ounces of liquid. Excluding the Iced Venti cups, which actually hold 22 ounces, on which I don't know the answer to that one.

[sbuxmanager]

My cousin just visited me from the middle east. He told me that the short cappucinno I made for him would be close to the largest size where he lives. We really need the mega here. A venti breve extra whip white mocha just isn't making us fat enough.

[Andrew]

Megan writes: Personally, I think that the SHORT drink size is not listed on the menu because it is very rarely ordered.

Very rarely ordered, huh... could that have anything to do with it not being on the menu? :)

[imabarrista]

Andrew, are we being tautological?

[Matthew]

If the reason Starbucks doesn't have the short size on the menu is because they're greedy and want more money for bigger sizes, then why wouldn't they just get rid of the short altogether? Clearly that's not the reason.

[Trayvis John Zeek Campbell]

I was surprised reading that some stores tell their Baristas not to offer short, only use them for the kids drinks, At my store, when anyone even goes, What sizes do you have? We always list off short for them and bust out a cup to show them the size, my store is not even a year old, and we offer short to people.

I guess its mainly what your manager kinda sets if it just going to be for kid drinks and so forth. I usually forget about that and just give the kids in a Tall anyways.

it's funny to see so many starbucks barristas chiming in with "it IS possible to make a free pour venti cappuccino!"

it just goes to show that you don't actually know what microfoam (which is what the article was talking about) is- it's thin, dense velvety foam. the foam you make for your cappuccinos seperates out fairly quickly into an airy, light, stiff texture. you cannot pour latte art with this foam. this foam is not what the article is talking about- microfoam is the standard of the specialty coffee world, and starbucks is not making microfoam.

and a traditional cap really shouldn't EVER be more than a 5 oz. drink- many stores in the scaa (like the one I work at) make a concession and serve an 8 oz. double cap, or, as the case of our store a 12 oz triple (med) or a 12 oz quad (large).

anything bigger than that is just a foamy latte.