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February 21, 2006

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Boston Starbucks Rebel

I have one thing to say. Is Bob Jones University even an accredited institution of higher learning or is a hornet's nest of Bible thumping wackos? Coming from a highly respected research college in the area, I look down on those who are taught to believe without understanding.

Lauren

That's frusttrating. Starbucks tries very had to be open to those sorts of things (they offer health benefits to "significant others" no matter their sex) and I think it's terrible that people could be so insensitive. Fine, stop serving it. But make a big deal out of it?

Ridiculous.

VIslandCub

Sorry to be crass, but I can't take a tertiary body named "BJ University" seriously. *grins*

colleen

hahaha, i agree with the above comment. I am so happy that starbucks see through sex and only sees what most people miss... which is loving partnership between two people. We offer adoption benifits too, for straight AND gay couples.

Austin K.

I know a few people that went to Bob Jones U. It really is an ultra-conservative institution. I'm surprised their admissions board even accepts women.

Can't everyone just look past the petty arguments and politics and just drink coffee?

Jonathan

As a BJU alumnus, let me offer two clarifications: (1) BJU quietly switched from Starbucks to another brand - it was not their intent to make a social statement and (2) BJU is a high quality liberal arts institution which teaches a variety of ideas/perspectives from a Christian worldview.

Our graduates tend to do very well: I'm a grad student at the LSE (top ranked in the world) and many of my friends attended Ivy league schools - apparently for those who know something about education, a BJU degree has at least a little value.

I'm sorry but I have to call you on this Jonathan

"teaches a variety of ideas/perspectives from a Christian worldview. "

what this says is "teaches a variety of ideas/perspectives from a Christian perspective."

You can't teach a variety of perspectives from one perspective.

Katherine

Number 3 as a BJU alum, they are an accredited institution.

Jonathan

Hi...anonymous (?), I take your point - I meant to say that BJU presents a wide range of issues from a Christian perspective. Obviously, everyone has his/her own opinion & the information that anyone presents will always be biased to some extent; that’s an unavoidable fact of life.

Boston Starbucks Rebel

OK! I wish to correct my last statement that Bob Jones is not an accredited institution. It is not a regionally accreditted institution of higher learning. Also Bob Jones University is known for its racist and anti-Catholic views.

Jonathan

Boston Rebel – so now that you've retreated from your irrelevant attack against the quality of the education, you're resorting to fallacious allegations of intolerance?

naveen

I daresay that those who scoff at Bob Jones University's "intolerance" are just as intolerant as they claim the university is.

I daresay you're an idiot.

(ex)CoffeeBoy

It's just coffee folks!

Boston Starbucks Rebel

I just like rebelling against those who seem to have all the answers. Remember, Socrates said that the wise man admitted that he knew little if anything and that in humility that the human person should seek wisdom through a life of self reflection which is knowing thyself.

At ninety dollars a paycheck I would hardly call my domestic partner benefits gay-friendly. At ninety dollars a paycheck Starbucks might as well be stringing my gay ass up (economically speaking).

You thought the coffee was expensive??? Ha!

deusx

I like my dom partner benefits just fine, if you don't move along! You let me know when you find a job that doesn't require a high school diploma yet gives domestic partner benefits.

At one point BJU had a policy banning inter-racial dating. That was pretty racist, wasn't it? They don't have the policy now, but they only ended, what, two or three years ago?

Jonathan

According to the Cambridge Dictionary, racism is the 'unfair treatment of members of other races.'

BJU's former policy was that no one could date outside their race (e.g. black w/Asian, Asian w/white, white w/black, etc.). The rule applied equally to everyone & did not discriminate against or favour a particular race.

Whatever the policy was (archaic, weird, etc.) - it wasn't racist.

Jonathan

Boston Rebel - I certainly don't have all the answers. But I do try to neither speak out of ignorance nor spread false allegations against those w/whom I disagree.

Mark

Jonathan,

BJU's dating policy, while not technically rasict, was something even worse - it was unChristian! Period.

Wow, Jonathan, split hairs much? It wasn't racist? How about ignorant, rude, obnoxious, pointless, offensive, and as Mark states, unchristian. Why anyone would defend a policy like that on the grounds that it was all of the above to everyone, not just one race, is beyond me.

Jonathan

I defended the policy against the false charge of racism. I also acknowledged that the policy was flawed - so get your facts straight! I agree that the policy needed to be removed and it was. By the way, have the common courtesy to post a name.

Boston Starbucks Rebel

Actually if one looks at Bob Jones University statement about not interracial dating and their fundamentalism attitude in the Bible it questions whether or not their exegesis is correct. If Adam and Eve as our parents were both white, where did the black, Asian, and other races people come from. According to their exegesis, therefore they must be non-human species and even sub-human. If one carries out their ideas to their conclusion one can see how contradictory their ideas are.

Sarah

Jonathan, kudos for trying to reason with beaters of dead horses. More power to you, though don't waste too much logic on those who don't seem to deal in it: you know the old saying, "One convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

If the point of the BJU policy is racial purity, then it is by default racist. That is, unless you don't think there is anything wrong with that, which I am not accusing anyone here of. Still, I find Sarah's argument rather infantile, and dismissive. A post was made, and points were expressed. Does the discussion of a policy that existed up until a few years ago really amount to "beating a dead horse?" I think some are just trying to defend BJU by dismissing complaints as "old news", or some sort of PC, insubstantial attack. If you can't defend the policy, a "oh, this again?" argument ain't gonna cut it.

Elizabeth

I used to live in Greenville, where BJU is. While I don't agree with most of the policies of the institution, this is America, folks. No one is forced to go there - it's of their own choosing. I don't have to like or agree with their ideas, but I can respect the fact that there are, apparently, many who do. As for them changing coffee brands, it sucks for the students, but it equals Subway's change from Pepsi to Coke a couple of years ago.

Adam

I am a former student of BJU.. Not alum, just former student and recovering christian fundamentalist. I was originally surprised to hear that BJ was serving Starbucks coffee on campus. The company I work for has a very close and strong relationship with Starbucks. As a whole, the company seems to be very open, accepting and inclusive. Concepts all lost on those closely affliated with BJ. So the fact that they have dicontinued serving their coffee based on something as ridiculous as a quote on a cup is no surprise at all. And the fact that there are so many people on line dogmatically defending this exclusive and elitist institution is not surprising either. Since the university's founding over 75 years ago they do not deal with criticism well at all.

Boston Starbucks Rebel

Amen brother!

Bob Jones Student

OK. I'll admit that I don't like coffee and never bought a blessed cup from the Snack Shop. I just don't like it. And that they changed to another coffee, I'll probably never buy that stuff either. They made the change and that's that. If students want to buy Starbucks, they can go off campus and get some. The fact of the matter is, administration is administration and they decide what they want the University to represent. I'm sure that they were well aware of the that this change would be the buzz for a while--for it was not just the coffee, but the reason for changing coffees. Each company chooses what they want to stand for, what they want to propogate, and Bob Jones chose to end the sale of Starbucks

Ralph

Well, actually I am a student a Bob Jones University and I don’t really like Starbucks coffee anyway because they always burn it. It is a third-rate product and because we support excellence here we should therefore not sell Starbucks. I think their point is that since the quote violates the school’s beliefs they don’t sell it. It makes logical sense. Would you sell something that directly, in writing, violated beliefs you held? Just because it is not your view does not necessarily they are “Bible thumping wackos”.

Rabbit

Well, actually I am a student a Bob Jones University and I don’t really like Starbucks coffee anyway because they always burn it. It is a third-rate product and because we support excellence here we should therefore not sell Starbucks. I think their point is that since the quote violates the school’s beliefs they don’t sell it. It makes logical sense. Would you sell something that directly, in writing, violated beliefs you held? Just because it is not your view does not necessarily they are “Bible thumping wackos”.

Rabbit

Well, actually I am a student a Bob Jones University and I don’t really like Starbucks coffee anyway because they always burn it. It is a third-rate product and because we support excellence here we should therefore not sell Starbucks. I think their point is that since the quote violates the school’s beliefs they don’t sell it. It makes logical sense. Would you sell something that directly, in writing, violated beliefs you held? Just because it is not your view does not necessarily they are “Bible thumping wackos”.

Adam

I had another thought regarding this issue. If Bob Jones "University" decides to black ball every major company that has a positive view of gays and same-sex couples, then it will soon become a very lonely existence indeed. Almost every major corporation is offering same sex domestic partner benefits, and also more and more companies are becoming aware of humanitarian issues concerning equal rights and supporting such causes as the Human Rights Campaign. So, in disallowing the sale of Starbucks on campus they have set a huge precedence. Let's see if they continue to make their bold statement of exclusion and narrow-mindedness.

Harry

For cryin' out loud! We all suck, it's just that some of us wake up to that fact later than sooner. Fast as you can, grab a copy of Michael Franzese's BLOOD COVENANT, read it from cover to cover, and you won't give a damn about coffee or domestic partner bennies. And you'll probably throw out your I'M ALL ABOUT ME T-shirt while you're at it.

Jenni

Okay, I regrettable was sent to a baptist school for 13 years and the school was affiliated w/ BJU. I had to spend a total of 7 weeks there for competions. I hated the place. There ban on starbucks however does not surprise me. After all this is the school that only recently after national bad publicty lifted their ban on inter-racial dating.

Lucky H

A few months ago, we all had great fun in the discussion about Baylor's demand of its concession contractor to remove the cup with an Armistead Maupin quote on it. At that time, I strongly criticized that institution for its consumerist Christian brand of slacktivism; even though the cup was banned from campus the fact remained that their students and faculty continued to line up daily for that morning jolt of caffeine delivered straight from the spigots of a company with core principles running contrary to their own beliefs.


Make no mistake: My personal viewpoint of Bob Jones University is that it is an execrable institution that recruits for and promotes the specific behaviors of a negative lifestyle choice. However, when one considers this particular move to banish Starbucks from their campus, one cannot say that they have acted in a manner that is inconsistent with their beliefs. Unlike Baylor, they have the courage to act upon their convictions.

For whatever they're worth.

Paul

All of this brings to mind a favorite quote from F. Scott Fitzgerald: One of the hallmarks of a first-rate mind is the ability to hold two conflicting opinions.

The statements on the cups weren't designed to be adopted as policy by the people reading. The plan was to start dialog. People disagreeing with Maupin's statement could state the way they felt.

Whatever. If a bunch of intolerant asshats want to boycott a company, who cares. Their loss. Not like Starbucks is going to go broke.

Former BJU Student

I went to BJU for three years (BEFORE they served gay coffee on campus--for shame...) and learning that the University was no longer carrying Starbucks coffee made me love the 'Bucks even more. I live in D.C. so there's one on every street corner.

You have to realize how sheltered BJU is from the real world. The fact that a quote on a paper coffee cup was their first clue that maybe Starbucks had liberal social values that might not jive with the University's puritanical view of society is laughable. They certainly don't hide the fact that they are a very progressive company (and why should they-they're only a few lattes away from world-wide domination.)
The biggest mistake here was a public relations one: Jonathan Pait had to release an official public statement notifying the world that BJU has uncovered that Starbucks is pro-gay rights and will therefore stop serving their coffee on campus? WHO CARES?!
I don't care whether the poor students at BJU drink Starbucks or Barneys or Koolaid. This is just one more instance where Bob Jones University has cut off it's nose to spite it's face. They do more harm to the cause of Christianity than they will ever realize.

It's latte time.

Anthony

Wow, you BJU students sure are ignorant Christians. I am attending an accredited Christian university in California (Azusa Pacific) and you guys should be ashamed. Being a Christian isn't about being anti-gay, it's about embracing everyone for who they are regardless of their flaws (I am not saying homosexuality is a flaw) and loving them for who they are- people. So be an ultra-conservative, ignorant Christian and makes all Christians look like intolerable jerks. Believe me, not all Christian universities are ridiculous like that. So please do not get the wrong idea of Christians or Christian institutions. Thanks your time guys.

meredith

First of all, I would like to compliment those patrons, alumni, board of directors and administrators who have made the BJU art museum such a remarkable collection. ...More on topic however, BJU understandibly enjoys its 1rst ammendment liberties (freedom of speech, expression, religious beliefs and rights to assembly, etc..) As well, Americans at large benefit from these very liberties outlined in our U.S. Constitution whatever their race, religion, education or socio-economic level...[and whatever possible non-missionary position those might assume behind closed doors in the bedroom]... In a nutshell, I was raised in a Judaio- Christian upbringing that teaches God's love, acceptance, tolerance and temperance. In addition to the 23rd Psalm, I was also influenced by "Desiderata", "If", "Prayer of St. Francis", translated Chinese and Arabic Proverbs, international folk music, jazz, rap, country & America's top 40, world history...& humor...

The chosen views of BJU are understandibly their right. One of the most beautiful gifts of our shared America is that the very freedom that BJU enjoys to reject serving a brand of coffee (since Starbucks acknowledges & accepts gays), paradoxically is the same freedom that consumers and patrons exercise when they venture away from BJU to buy coffee, donate art, and to bestow endowments & grants. Somehow, "God's love" is ample so that provisions can be made for everyone to benefit.... In closing I will share, what may prove just for some may be just for some. ...And I'm going to have some more Starbucks now:-)

I think a lot of what Bob Jones does is pretty idiotic, but they're a private school, and the people who attend share the beliefs of the school for the most part. So who cares, if you want to be there for the atmosphere, it's your right.

Theolaxor

I'm pretty sure that if starbucks were to change their name to "Straightbucks" we'd be a lot more popular with those backwards evangelists

buos

Isn't BJU the same University that has one of its dorms named after Bibb Graves? If I'm not mistaken Bibb was a former governor of Alabama and the Grand Dragon of the KKK in Alabama. You would think they would switch names of the dorm before they switched coffee's. The old BJU double standard at work again.

I went to BJU...the academy . the university, I got a degree..(hello BJU students, I was a APC and a PC)
I regret every moment that I wasted of my life at that place.
I suffered from that degree with no real meaning.

I met my first wife there, of course a divorce, (due to the strict dating standards of the early 90's, you never really got to know the person you were interested in!)
listen, it is all about a personal relationship with your God, not something that is forced down your throat. If you are too weak to live your own life, go there....no, don't even go there. I am happy now, and I drink Starbucks. Someone give me a coffee!

Its funny the people who call themselves "Christians" these days show NONE of the qualities or behaviors that Jesus Christ taught. I mean HELLO!! Jesus hung out with the "degenerates" and "sinners"!! How about compassion, tolerance, unconditional love, forgiveness? I couldnt imagine following someone who claimed to be God's son but acted like most "Christians" do these days.

bbn

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John Molina

How complimentary to the discussion!

Charlene

what is up with this post^???

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