Labor experts doubt IWW's Starbucks union drive will succeed

"These are leftist anarchists who just love stirring up trouble," says labor studies professor Richard Hurd. "I don't see any lasting result from their efforts." But the Industrial Workers of the World union claims Starbucks workers are underpaid, have lousy hours and can't afford the insurance. (Seattle Times)

Comments

[Deusx]

Bah this Professor is just another spy for Starbucks being paid to tell lies to discredit the IWW, Anonymous No More can tell you all about it.

[fiat lux]

I'm very pro-union, generally, but those IWW guys are way, WAY out there. Their stated goal is to do away with capitalism entirely and replace it with some sort of proto-Marxist worker's collective owning everything.

Whether or not Starbucks baristas should unionize is a fair topic, but if the IWW is driving the discussion, they're going to lose a lot of support right off the bat.

[Ryan Ebelhar]

I work for Starbucks and I don't want to unionize. I think we get treated very fairly

[Jeremy in Seattle]

I'm doing fine working part time at SBUX whilst attending graduate school with no outside help.

I can afford insurance and my 10 percent stock option.

Suck it IWW

[justabarista]

no way starbucks should go union. alot of people that work there try and do as little as possible as it is. Give them a bully like the IWW to come to work with them and the people who are enthusiastic and enjoy working at starbucks will become the overworked, tired and burnt out crowd and then the third place will collapse and it will be the beginning of the end.

[Seattle]

The article is dead on. Oh...but wait...I guess I'm only saying that because I'm paid by Starbucks.

[Starbucks Cowboy]

After reading the IWW site, I'm really sure that it is just what Starbucks employees need. Just read below and you'll see. What is below is straight from their website.

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.

We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."

It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old."

These morons are still living in the past, like two centuries ago.

[averrycafinatedbarrista]

its a nice idea, shame it wont work though.

[Mr.Dazzle]

Hmph...in regard to the Starbucks Cowboy's excerpt from the IWW site, all I have to say is 'yikes!'. I'm just here for the coffee, not a revolution.

[mkebarista]

f'in hippies

[Barista Boy]

Everyone should listen to them. After all, the communist economic syatem was such a success--look at how advanced Cuba is!!

[Speedmaster]

I sure hope it doesn't succeed, that would be bad for employees, owners, and customers.

barista boy: cuba is like that because of the united states. for better reference take a look at china.. (if you haven't noticed they are sort of kicking our ass in the world market)

[fiat lux]

Ever notice that the more China allows capitalism in, the better it does economically? They have private ownership of industry there, if you didn't know.

[Deusx]

Yeah and the average person there is dirt poor, a large percenage of chinese STILL in the 21st century have no running water or electricity.

[Deusx]

Sorry, that should say "a large percentage of chinese outside the major cities".

[fo shizzle]

Cuba is like that because of the United States? Are you kidding me speedmaster?

Sorry to get off topic here, but the Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extra-judicial executions. Groups like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have issued reports on Cuban prisoners of conscience. The Cuban government denies the International Committee of the Red Cross access to its prisons and many human rights groups including Amnesty International are denied entry to Cuba.

The United States Government has initiated various policy measures against Cuba which have had a considerable political and economic effect on the island; these have variously been designed to remove the leadership and to encourage Cuba to undertake political change towards a multi-party electoral process.

Again, sorry to get off topic. I think the IWW is ridiculous, they are trying to get recognition by leeching onto a successful company, as Starbucks has a strong branded image.

I don't need them to speak on my behalf, I feel quite confident that my education and the SBUX training I've received has allowed me to speak my mind in a professional, dignified manner.

[June]

"barista boy: cuba is like that because of the united states. for better reference take a look at china.. (if you haven't noticed they are sort of kicking our ass in the world market)"

Are you stupid or just dim? Have you ever been to Cuba? Have you talked to any exiles of Cuba? Have you ever read a book or newspaper?
Where did you get this inane information?

[CuteBarista!]

um, sanctions, anyone?

i for one can't wait til castro bites it. then maybe i can go visit cuba. i've been dying to go there nearly my whole life.

IWW manifesto = scary

Can't see why anyone would be against union organizers or pro-union workers at starbucks from making their case and then letting the employees make their decision. That's Democracy plain and simple.

[fiat lux]

The point of unionization is to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits. Which is a fabulous idea, if, say, you worked for a company like Wal-Mart that treats their people like crap. Starbucks has a really good benefits package, and although their wages are not overly generous, they are competitive. There's just not a lot of potential upside to be gained there.

Even if you do think that there's concessions that could be gained through organization, you still would not want to hook up with the IWW. The SEIU, for example, would be a much better choice of organizing partner.

i don't think any of the union stores in BC get anything that the non-union stores do - except for having the ability to have reps at reviews, for meetings and such (although you could easily request another manager to sit in on any of these things in a non-unioned store as well)...

so i don't understand how the union thinks it can better our lives, when the proof of them being within the company for years has netted them virtually nothing that their lack of presence hasn't...

"get anything that the non-union stores do"

meant "don't"

[Bucksguy]

Unions are antiquated institutions that drive the price of all consumer goods through the roof, making the very products and services that the workers they represent unaffordable to those workers. Unions were great before labor laws, when severe abuses were occuring, but at this point serve only themselves, and certain political interests. Can you imagine if the Bucks went union? You think customers complain about our pricing now? Unions always have their greedy little paws reaching for a piece of the pie...you know who pays in the end, of course- the workers. Keep your money! If you have a grievance, do what adults do - be direct and address it, and if you don't get satisfaction, take it up a level!

edit - first sentence should read making the products and services provided by the workers they represent

Starbucks workers absolutely need a union. We're on our feet 4-8 hours a day, performing numerous tasks ranging from taking orders to making drinks to cleaning, usually with 3-4 employees on the floor. And most people who visit Starbucks know that many locations are horrendously busy. It's fair to say that the workers deserve a right to lobby against the profiteers who live comfortably off of our labor should give a little more to the people who slave day in and day out to line their pockets.

But oh wait, that's just radical leftist rhetoric! I mean, the nerve of some employees, wanting living wages!

[Deusx]

A BARISTA POSITION IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A CAREER NOR IS IT INTENDED TO BE A PRIMARY SOURCE OF EMPLOYMENT. It's been said so many times, I thought all caps might be what it took to finally make it something people can internalize.

It's a friggin entry level, no special skills required menial food service job. Stop blaming someone else for not providing you with what you think you need to survive take some personal responsibility.

[jabanga]

"It's a friggin entry level, no special skills required menial food service job."

-deusx

and i thought baristas were supposed to be partners dedicated to creating enthusiastically satisfied customers all of the time...

[Deusx]

Jabanga,

You apparently have nothing better to do, but I'll bite. I am describing what kind job it is, you are describing what kind of work ethic should be doing the job. You are far smarter generally than to be someone that doesn't recognize that, I can only assume you are bored and miss the debates?

[Theolaxor]

Exactly - these union pinkos just want to stir up some trouble in a stable company, just to make a few extra 'bucks for themselves (forgive the pun)

[barockstar]

i'll bite too, but not to flame - just to try to understand...

annon: you said we need a union because (paraphrased) : we're on our feet from 4-6 hours a day, working on tasks in busy environments...

i don't think i see the relationship between hard work and a union.

if you had said: there are hazards to the job, or my manager makes me do dangerous stuff, or starbucks makes me do unclean duties without giving me proper protection - then i'd totally agree with you.

but it seems as you said we need a union because we work hard.

and that doesn't make sense..

now i agree that a living wage is a nice thing. has any union been able to take an entry level, relatively unskilled position in any company, and have it give it's workers a livable wage?

..because i don't see that introducing a union to starbucks has helped before, or how it has helped others do what you claim..

i am not flaming. i am asking for a logical discussion on why you really think it's needed...

[jabanga]

the last thing i want to do is get in any kind of union debate with you deusx. i just often find that you like to have it both ways with many of your posts and just like to point that out to you every once and a while. you jump to defend starbucks anytime anyone says anything remotely negative about the company and then you generally add that the only reason that individual is saying something negative about the company is completely based in some inadequecy that individual suffers from. yet you feel free to take digs at the company and its employees whenever you feel like it. i probably hired 100 partners in my time and i never felt i was hiring any of them for a "friggin entry level, no special skills required menial food service job."

[Seattle]

Ahhh, JABANGA, I've hired partners in my time too. I knew, as well as they, that it certainly is an entry level, no special skills required job. You don't even need a high school diploma (or even a GED) to be qualified for it therefore, there are no special skills required and it is entry level

[jabanga]

saying that is a little different than saying it is a "friggin entry level, no special skills required menial food service job" isn't it?

..you're playing with semantics, not the spirit of the post..

[stbuxlover13yrs]

You people here make me laugh! How many of you have been Union?? I was IAM Union 3 years. And now thank god non-union.
All people hear about is unions are good pay and insurance and retirement. Ok... Most of it is true. But there is many negative sides to unions.
How would you like to get paid all of the same? Its called Classification people!!! So joe blow your lazy co-worker can screw off and get paid the same as you. In my non-union job I get more money than other workers because I bust my ass an gain more skills. And never call off and come in 8 times out of 10 on My day off.
When you get paid the same there is no motavation to work hard!
My old union job yelled at you if you took an extra minute during lunch! Plus it sucked when work was busy and I needed help and my co-worker would go to lunch and I could do nothing about it.
My non-union jib I can take extra breaks because I am the hardest working employee.
How about union dues?? I was paying $45 mo plus $88 for insurance. And it always seemed to increase every year!!
Union job Senority rules! How would you like to get no holidays off and work a crappy shift because you donot have 10 plus years in an company? People stay in Union jobs for life. I saw the same dam people take all of the holidays off and people never retired when they wanted to.
Union jobs are good if you have 4 kids and an wife or husband who makes crap money. I saw people in My old union job who hated it there but could not leave the pay or benefits.
Starbucks is an non-skilled job. I respect the workers there. But tired of people complaining about the pay they get. I mad min wage for years. But did something about it. Now I make 50 plus as an Mechanic.... Unions suck!

[Deusx]

"Starbucks is a non-skilled job"

I disagree, the base position requires no special skills to start. Unless having a work ethic and pride in what you do is a special skill in this day and age. A successful barista is a fairly skilled person because Starbucks invests a fair amount of time and cash in training them.

[matt]

now i agree that a living wage is a nice thing. has any union been able to take an entry level, relatively unskilled position in any company, and have it give it's workers a livable wage?

The answer is yes (for a company that's over 80% unionized and has been wonderfully profitable for 34 years running, no less), Southwest Airlines.

Unions are antiquated institutions that drive the price of all consumer goods through the roof, making the very products and services that the workers they represent unaffordable to those workers

Uhhm, I think we can afford $99 for a cross-country flight - but we don't need to, because we fly for free:)

[Barista Bob]

Unions can be a wonderful thing. It allows the workers to not get taken advantage of. HOWEVER. Starbucks does do a great job at offering its employees a wealth of increadible benifits. And there is also room to move up the ladder due to its rapidly expanding rate.

The key to a good union to employer relationship is the communication that occurs. Hardball unions are no good, and should only be involved where serious hard labor occurs where employees are aken advantage of.

Now if we could all come ogether and form our own union. Not affiliated with any other exsisting union then maybe we could make something good happen. But the odds are in corporates favor. There are so many of us baristi and managers that to get this to happen would take next to a miracle.

Former Local 701 union member...Aerospace Engineers...Local Automotive division.

[bob]

stbuxlover13yrs, you really ought to take an English class or two. Perhaps then your arguement could be taken a little more seriously ...

[Chai Bob Soy Pants]

To correct my previous post as BaristaBob...now known as Chai Bob Soy Pants....It was IAM that I was a member of. And it was a great union. I made 50K plus a year. And they protected us from being taken advantage of. So stbuxlover13yrs...I have no clue what your talking about. We were making 24.25 an hour when I left. And they are up to 30 something an hour now. I have no idea who you worked for. But all I can say is I was very proud to ba a member of IAM local 701 out of the Chicago area. There were many times the Union was there for us. And in the automotive business it was very good to know that they had our back.

They even give you a pension. And buddy if you only spent 3 years in the union....YOU CANT COMPLAIN.

[barockstar]

matt & chai bob:
you're not talking about a union for a unskilled, no-education needed jobs..
while similar jobs in actuality - you need schooling in order to be an attendant, don't you?

and airports are notorious for abusing their flight people - having pilots flying for 24 hours straight, having attendants with only minutes between over-sea flights etc.

do you honestly think that starbucks (if you don't work there, from what you know about it) needs union representation?

[Chai Bob Soy Pants]

No I dont think we do. I was just backing up unions in general. I do not think we need them. If we formed our own it would be very different. But a neccesity? No.

I was a member of IAM in which he was refering to. So I jst wanted to put my 2 cents in about unions after all the bashing that was going on.

LOL The Baristi Union Local 101....sounds down right ridiculous.

[Margie]

Ok. I am a socialist and I am against the IWW. Why? Because they have a record (lately- in their ressurected incarnation) of race-baiting. They made huge efforts to keep Mexican truckers off the roads in California (legaly working, driving trucks of mostly produce from Mexico, so legality is not the issue here). Where in that is the "Of the World" part of their name? (Industrial Workers of the World is what the acronym stands for.)

The other reason I am against them is that, overall, I think Starbucks takes the welfare of its employees into consideration to a degree not seen in many- if any- other companies of this size. I would not work here if I didn't think so.

As for unions in general- watching the afl-cio sell its employees down the river repeatedly is very sad, indeed. These used tobe the mostg militant and effective unions, which won huge advances for the workers- union or not- now...? Not so much.

I know some unions are still ok, but overall, they leave a lot to be desired and tend to be an agent for funnelling dissent among workers into safely expressed politicing, meenwhile not addressing the underlying causes of workers' sufferings/exploitation.

As for China- they have never been socialist, per se- they have been statist and stalinist. Very different thing, which relied on a cult of personality to prop up a series of disasterous social and economic programs.

Cuba is likewise a statist entity, which is courting the capitalist countries pretty vigorously in light of the fall of the USSR which was for years sending aid.

Bob,

It sounds like you pay scale is at Journeyman level. Am I correct? I was at Helper wage when I was IAM. All the way at the bottom. Now I make about 50k. Maybe your union was good for you. But I did not see it fair that Journeyman made at the time $21.78hr. And every year they received .60-1.00 hr raise every year and us Helper received 60% of what they received. How was that fair? Plus Union dues went up every year and our raises just made the difference. I was tired of all the same people taking off the same holidays year after year. In my Non-union Job. If the Snap-on guy shows up. I can take as long as I want and not have someone whine about a 15 min break. PLus Since I am the hardest worker there. I get extra days off. And a lot of things My way. In the IAM you cannot do that! Plus I can demand a raise. I make 52k with 3 years experience. =p

[Newmanite]

we can't have a union. theoretically it won't work...to have one the barista's have to first have a monopoly on the store's labor. that is, the store would have to shut down completely if we weren't there...that just wouldn't happen. we're easily replaceable. if we went on strike, corporate would just fire us all and have new people in our places by the end of the week.