"Starbucks seems to be swimming in the same waters as a lot of fast-food outlets"

Oh-oh, the public has noticed: Starbucks is morphing into McDonald's. "The difference is it has the Teflon that comes with being perceived as cool," writes Colleen Cason. "The truth, if we care to face it, is that just because Starbucks is hip doesn't mean that its fare won't go to your hips." (Ventura County Star)

Comments

[CDNBarista]

I read the article but couldn't get past the fact that here is yet ANOTHER reporter talking about how our sizes don't make any sense.

Plus this woman suffers from "fear of calories". She probably thinks ingesting 1200 calories a day is healthy. Reality check : adult females, even those who are completely sedentary, still need to get at least 2000 calories a day. And you know, nutrionally balanced food and all that jazz.

I'm not saying our drinks are healthy, but if you are watching your weight, what would possess them to get a Venti mocha? It's common sense. We do have smaller sizes.

[Alex Gordon]

Seriously, a rant about how silly tall, grande and venti are? Ummm, 1995 is calling, it wants its column idea back. And wow, there are high-caloric foods at Starbucks, too? Who'd of thunk it. How many calories and fat grams are there in the egg salad sandwich from her local deli?

I look forward to Coleen's upcoming column in which she discovers that fancy bottled water is more expensive than tap water.

[barista lane]

maybe if she knew any more about starbucks, or bothered to research a little, the "tall" size would make more sense knowing that the smallest size is "short."

starbucks differs from fast food in that, well, starbucks isn't fast food. the goal of starbucks is not to provide meals for all of the customers. does it look like we have enough food to do that?

and if you're worried about the 490 calories in a venti mocha, why not non-fat/no whip. or, gasp!, order a cup of brewed coffee...

[coffeeguy]

Tea, Brewed coffee, non-fat milk, hold the whip, order smaller sizes.

Plenty of ways to cut back folks. yes Starbucks is not healthy but taking one look at a frappucino should tell you that off the bat.

That and didn't Starbucks come out a while ago and say that it's in the process of trying to cut all the trans-fats from it's stores?

[Milwaukee Starbucks Rebel]

i encourage everyone to go on the website and comment on the story / author's stupidity

[CFLsbuxfan]

So according to the author's logic...I'm supposed to ignore all "lame names" when I order in any and all establishments and just call them whatever I'd like...all the in the name of making it easier on "check-paying" Americans? Well then, let's just see how far I get in ordering a "blended drink with strawberries, yogurt, bananas, a little orange juice and some protein powder please" in Planet Smoothie or in (gasp!) McDonalds ordering "a small burger with bacon and cheese and onions and ketchup and two slices of bread." That makes it WAY easier.

Starbucks never claimed it was healthy. Yet, Starbucks isn't the evil "sneaking calories unsuspectedly on a innocent public" this author would make it out to be. EVEN MORE research uncovers that a standard egg salad sandwich (with 3oz of bread) is 556 cal, 32.8 grms fat, 6.4 grms saturated. You want healthy? PUT DOWN THE MAYO AND BACON AND STEP AWAY FROM THE SANDWICH! Eat a fruit cup for goodness sake. Starbucks has those too!

[Kat]

I go into Starbucks and get something out of the pastry/sandwich display, I KNOW it's not going to be exactly healthy for me. But that's fine, I don't get something every time I'm in there. Often it's just for coffee or iced tea.

I did have to chuckle at comments about the names Starbucks uses for sizes. I find them a little lame, but eh, whatever, it's their thing. My husband still insist every time we go into Starbucks on saying 'small', 'medium' or 'large'. What I find amusing however is the person serving us often insist on calling it by the Starbucks name (venti, tall or what have you), acting like they don't know what he means until my husband gives in and says 'uh..yeah that's it'. I mean, come on, it's small, medium and large, no matter what special names you give it.

[iheartstarbuckslattes]

So, my husband insists on using the terms "small, medium, and large" when we go to starbucks- and they never fail to insist that he call the sizes by their "real" names. It totally pisses him off.

Although the author has an annoying writing style, and starts off with a lame comment- the main thrust of her article is actually very interesting. I know that I could just look at the calorie content myself- but I never have. And there was a time when I was eating up to two meals a day at Starbucks! (in school) YIKES. And I would die before eating at McDonalds, yet the calorie comparison is startling. I never would have put it in context. You assume because it is Starbucks, and the food looks healthier, that it is indead healthier, and that is not the case. Goodbye lowfat marionberry muffins- I will miss you :)

If the fat police have their way, no one will be able to go out for an ice cream cone, a pizza or anything else. Of course these things all have fat, but no one is making people eat them every day or to eat an entire pizza or a half gallon of ice cream. What happened to the "As part of a BALANCED diet" phrase that used to accompany every commercial?

[CDL Lover]

Has anyone tried the Oat, Fruit and Nut cookie at Starbucks? It's fabulous and made with whole grain. Some might think, yuck, but it's really a surprisingly tasty cookie! As for the actual topic of this thread, I can't believe people have issues with the different cup size names...after the first visit to a Starbucks, you should be able to master the lingo unless you have some reading comprehension issues, hehe.

[Milwaukee Starbucks Rebel]

newsflash.. starbucks doesn't have a small, medium, and large size. there are still technically 4 sizes. if you come in and order a small i will give you a short and see if you bitch about it

[Kat]

Well, I was at my local Starbucks this morning, as a matter of fact, ordering a coffee and all I saw were three sizes.

As I said, it's Starbucks thing, but I fail to see why some employees that work there tend to get snitty. Just ask if you are unsure. It's just coffee for pete's sake, not like we are talking about anything important here.

[Boston Starbucks Rebel]

Well, if you wanted to know. All the Starbucks foods do not contain any trans fats. So all those fats really aren't that bad.
BTW: The apple fritter has 800 yummy calories.

[SBUXBARIMAN]

Actually, there ARE in fact four sizes. We just don't advertise the short on the menu boards because if someone says they want a small, and we pull out an 8 oz short cup they freak out and say "No! I want the next size up." Hence, we tend to use the shorts for kids drinks. But they are there. Look at at the cups next time you're in their, I believe that you will see 4 hot cup sizes.

So, Kat, there were (I PROMISE YOU), in fact, FOUR sizes.

Unless your store just plain sucks anyways.

[wheresthecoffee]

where the heck was the newspaper's editor to tell the columnist "this story has been done over and over. Write about something else!"

Must be all Peet's fans. Same fare there, nobody cares.

[iheartstarbuckslattes]

so - there are 4 sizes - kids, small, medium, and large. but the kids isn't advertised- so isn't it reasonable to say you have 3 sizes and 1 kids? and it's not that we can't handle the lingo (to previous poster) but it is ANNOYING. and the attitudes of the baristas adds to the annoyance factor. perhaps the starbucks name book should spell it out for you tall=small, grande=medium, venti = large. it isn't hard!

[quirky_kelly]

It seems with everyone's New Year's resolutions, lots of our customers are trying to eat and drink healthier. Recently, I've many customers ask me how to cut down the calories on their favorite drinks, and I'm happy to help modify them. It's really no big deal, if people are worried about calories, they can change their drinks. The menu boards even coach on how to do this.

What's interesting are the carb-watchers. One customer wanted a latte, but wanted no carbs, but milk has carbs, so we tried to get her to switch to an Americano. A few days later, another carb-watching customer said she wanted us to use heavy whipping cream because there were no carbs in it. Sure enough, she was right - less than a gram of carbs per serving. Now that I've learned this, I will suggest heavy whipping cream to other customers who want a low-carb drink, though drinking 16 oz of it hardly seems healthy.

I also once had a diabetic customer ask what was in our Mochas, because every time she drank one, her "blood sugar went through the roof." After informing her of the high sugar content, we redirected her toward our sugarfree syrups, and she left happy with a sugarfree hazelnut frappucino light.

Sorry, but when I call your small drink back to you, I'm going to call it as a tall, because that's how we're supposed do it. That's not me having an attitude about it.

[DMAN]

Exactly. We are trained to call drinks back short, tall, grande, or venti. We aren't allowed to say small, medium, etc. Its not attitude at all, just the way we have to do things. Primarily we do it becuase when people say small, they want a tall, not a short, although short would "technically" be a small.

And shorts aren't only for kids. Kids drinks happen to be made in a short cup, but ANYONE can order a short of any hot drink (cold cups don't come in that size.

[sbuxgrrl]

IHEARTSTARBUCKS (and everyone else who is still struggling with the size concept): Once again, the sizes are: short. tall. grande. venti. There is no small. There is no medium. There is no large. If you ask for a "small," I confirm your order by asking, "you mean tall?" That is NOT correcting you! If you say, "no", then I give you a short and you whine and cry. When I go to someone's house and they say, "Why don't we sit down in the sitting room," I don't argue with them and say, "NO, it's a parlor." Likewise, when you come into my store, and I offer you a tall coffee, there is no need to debate the Starbucks sizes. Get with the program.

[DMAN]

Amen SBUXGRRL!

[Ohio Vegan]

I work at an independent coffee shop (still a starbucks junkie on my days off though--- :) ) We have small, medium, and large as our sizes and still there are people who insist on coming in and ordering a "tall" or "grande" or "venti". We're all trained to repeat it back to them as small, medium or large. It all depends on the "culture" of the place where you're working. For the same reason people order "Big Macs" rather than whatever is actually on a Big Mac. I say if you're going to patronize a place, at least learn the very basics of their lingo so they know what you mean when you order. And if you don't want to learn their "silly" cup sizes, don't go there! it's very simple. What idiot can't learn "tall, grande, and venti"/"small/medium/large?" especially in our starbucks-permeated, globalized world.

[iheartstarbuckslattes]

get with the program? i didn't know ordering at starbucks required brainwashing?

i am fine with a barista confirming an order- and i will say that i love some of the baristas at my local starbucks - they are very helpful. but i think sometimes baristas need to take a step back, chill out, and loose the attitude. i know that you are "living starbucks culture" everyday- but the rest of us aren't - and sometimes we just want a medium drip with room.

[DMAN]

Thats the thing though. Its our coffee. Our store. Its NOT a medium drip with room. With our FOUR sizes, a medium could mean tall OR grande. So order a grande drip with room... No. Wait. Thats not even right. Grande with room drip. Yup. Its not brainwashing hun, its our way of doing things. I recently went through a drive through espresso stand, and their sizes were minima, medio, and mondo. So, out of respect for the venues right to do business as it pleased I ordered a minima white chocolate mocha. Not a tall, not a small. Were not trying to brainwash you, we just have our own established way of doing things, and when you enter our establishment, it makes things run much more smoothly if you order a short, tall, grande, or venti. And this isn't aimed at the people who have no coffee experience. I am more than patient with them, explaining the for sizes and their meaning. And yes, they do make sense. Think about it. Short (Okay, smallest), Tall (Alright, a bit bigger), Grande (Oooh, now doesnt' that sound special), and Venti (which is Italian for twenty).

[Chi-town's best/angriest barista]

i think what a lot of customers don't understand is that we partners HAVE to call the drinks by the starbucks issued names (short/tall/grande/venti) regardless of whether or not we want to, we're not insulting or correcting you, we're just doing what we have to. if it were up to me, i'd say small/medium/large/etc. but i didn't make up the names, so please don't get mad at me for them, i'm only doing my job. and it's totally possible to get a small size. they do exist if you are so concerned about it. if i order anything other than drip coffee, i'll get the short soy latte, and nobdoy has a problem with it. and it's cheaper too.
here's my piece of advice, get a smaller size (make it healthier too, if you're into that) and drink it slower, sip and enjoy enjoy it, rather than gulping it down and racing off to wahtever's next. you'll realize how good drinks can be, plus you won't miss those extra 8 ounces, or 200 calories.

[MartUK]

Wotcher from England!

Okay everyone, let's just think about our breathing, shall we?

If someone wants to call it a small, that's their right. THEY'RE WRONG!! AND WE SHALL GET THEM IN THE END, THEY SHALL LEARN TO SPEAK PROPERLY!! I WILL CALL THEM AT 3AM AND SHOUT DOWN THE PHONE AT THEM!! IT'S VENTI, YOU FOOL, VENTI!!!!

*pant, pant* Anyway, as I say, they can call it what they like, we still know what they mean.

So, going back to the article, all I read before she bored me was,

"Wah wah wah! I can't remember to call the drinks by a different name. And aren't I clever for looking up the meaning of the word Venti." If she'd asked her local friendly barista, they would have explained that the Venti is 20 ounces, so the name makes perfect sense. Meh to her, I say, meh!

IHEART>>Prepare for the late-night phone calls. The Siren knows all!

[DMAN]

The trouble is we don't always know what they mean. I have a few regulars who say small and mean short. I also have a few that say small and mean tall. Its rather annoying.

[MartUK]

Then, DMAN,it's up to you to educate them. However, if they're regs, you should have their drinks ready when they get to the till (register in Americanese, I speak foreign, I do!) I have this couple who come in regularly. I usually have their Grande Drip and Grande tea with two skinny lemon muffins waiting for them. And this is when I'm not even on till!

Have you tried taking them gently by the throat and shaking them until the information sinks in?

Of course, the real trouble starts when they change their orders. Then I just roll my eyes and complain loudly to the nearest barista. I can get away with that. I'm blessed!

[pdxsbux]

A little Starbucks history: At one time there was only short and tall sizes, later Grande and Venti were added. So the sizes actually make sense; at least to me.

[LG]

How come no one complained about McDonalds forcing people to say "Super Size" when ordering, but this is such a big issue for Starbucks customers?

It's really easy, people. The sizes are on the menu boards. The prices increase as the sizes get bigger, just like at all places with menu boards. The difference with Starbucks is that we don't promote Short sizes on our menu boards. If you want one, you have to ask for a Short.

If saying 'small', 'medium', and 'large' delude you into thinking you're not an addict, or into thinking you're better than the people serving you, then that's fine. But the next time someone goes out of their way to be difficult to you when you're at work - over something so silly, especially - stop and think about your own behavior. We just want to get your order right so we don't have to make it again. Could you just stop being an ass and say your order correctly?

Millions of people order off this menu everyday with no issues. But there is that 2-3% that just cannot wrap their minds around synonyms. Short, Tall, and Grande are standard coffeehouse sizes. Venti is the only one that's odd - and it means 20 in Italian; Starbucks is (loosely) based on the feel of Italian coffeehouses. Guess how many ounces a Venti holds?

And to the Grrl that gave the parlor/sitting room explanation - you, ma'am, are a genius. Now, I'm off to the living room (sometimes called a den) to watch some TV.

[Kat]

Ok, so there are four sizes. I don't know that if it doesn't say that on the board, do I? All it list is THREE sizes. Three. And I don't peer around behind the counter to see if you have any others, I sort of expect the board to be correct, you know?

As for 'correcting' me: Verify what size I mean, no problem, only takes a second. Or gee, sorry I didn't use the special lingo Starbucks uses. But don't snap my head off or get an attitude simply because I don't memorize the lingo you use. Frankly, all the other coffee shops in my area say 'small' 'medium' and 'large'. Starbucks is alone in it's use of different terms, at least where I live. As I said, it's *just* coffee, no need to get uptight about it :)

[MartUK]

Wotcher!

My girlfriend calls Short the "Secret" size.

Now you have been initiated into the Dark Knowledge of Starbucks, Kat, you will also be recieving the 3am phone calls! The Siren knows all! Mwa ha ha!!!

But seriously, can't you call them by the proper names? We get beaten if we don't use them, and you'll get a nice smile when you do! Promise!

[SaraGirl]

I'm no kid but I do love my double SHORT % latte. I worked at a starbucks for my last year of college and most customers were great about the names only occasionlly we would have someone complain about the names of the sizes. When they did we nodded and let it go. It's just lingo.

I found it interesing that the writer was compelled to write such a shallow peice. With all the healthy articals surfacing out there she would have won more fans by making suggestions as to what a Starbucks customer could do to cut the fat. Obviously, eating out at a coffee house, isn't going to be your best pick for healthly dinning.

I'm just glad that starbucks has nutritional facts in easy to get to places. I was because of the facts sheet that I was able to tweak my coffee habit enough so that I can have my cake and eat it too. (In moderation) :)

[Homebarista]

Boy, here's a touchy subject for Starbuck's folks...If I understand correctly, Howard Schultz is the 'could even get you to drink spiked look-aid' spokes-guru of the organization. If this is the case, I refer you all to the Scott Pelley CBS News "60 Minutes" piece: "Howard Schultz: The Star Of Starbucks," which aired on 4/23/2006.

The transcript is available at: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60minutes/main1532246.shtml

"But please tell America and the rest of the world why the small drink is called the tall?" Pelley asks.

"Well, I think, you know, when you walk into a store, you don't wanna say, give me a small. You wanna say give me a tall. And, so, there's a little bit of marketing in there," Schultz explains.

[Kat]

They can call me at 3a.m Martuk, but I am not answering :P

Sometimes I use the 'special' lingo, sometimes I don't. I guess my point is, I just don't see what the big deal is. And no one here has bitten my head off or scowled at me yet for not using the Starbucks terms. I'm just sorry to see so much of it here.

[MartUK]

*Sets psychic redial for wherever Kat is*

As lingo goes it's not all that special. We just like messing with you!

Personally, I don't really care, and have even been known to use the other words myself, especially when the customers are older and like the old-fashioned concepts of small, medium and large.

By here, do you mean "here" geographically or "here" as in teh Intarweb? Remember, the Internet was invented by those clever people at Cerne so complete strangers could whine and moan anonymously! Fabbo!

[Homebarista]

Uh-oh, I noticed in my comment above I completely transposed the (made up) word kool as in "kool-aid."
I recently commented about an excellent example of experience and proceeded to spell espresso "EX..." I got "called on the carpet" for not knowing what I was talking about...I just wanted to make sure that didn't happen again!

[nyc angry barista]

See...in new york we have a few spins on this problem...I for one will always accept small, medium, and large to equal tall, grande, venti. Our specific problem and you might get it too is this
"lemme get a regular coffee"
"What size, sir?"
"I said regular"

What the hell do I do with that? Everytime I give them a grande and everytime they say they wanted a small and everytime I take their 2.05. And then they come back the next day and we do it again. At the very least they could say small.

Or how about the people who do this?
"Lemme get a mocha."
"What size?"
::customer gets flustered and pissed at me::" oh....I don't know!"

What? I'm the @$$hole because you don't know how much death you wish to consume today?

Seriously the biggest bane of my exsistence is having to ask my customers "what size?" in 1 out of every three transactions...its retarded.

[Kat]

By 'here', Martuk, I mean where I live, which happens to be southern Alabama ;) Maybe it's just we're more laid back or not sophisticated enough or something lol, but small, medium and large still seems to work out ok for the most part, at least when I order. As I orignally stated, hubby gets some hassle sometimes, I never have. No biggie, just don't understand all the grousing over what really isn't that big an issue. I'm more interested that Starbucks continue to make decent coffee than what to call the sizes.

[Chi-town's best/angriest barista]

NYC-
i've had that same "regular" problem too and i've worked in st. paul mn, and chicago. it seems that people everywhere will go around in circles with me over it. "what size?"
"regular"
[points to the grande in the lovely display of cups] "this one here?"
"no! this one!" [points to the venti}
"okay! venti cof..."
"no, i said regular coffee"
"yup, a regualr coffee in the venti sized cup."
"i just want a cup of coffee not some snippy attitude!"
{gives up} "okay, one regular coffee. that'll be $1.98"
[proceedes to complain about the price} "blah blah blah expensive angry this place should be called 'fourbucks' blah blah blah"
"thank you very much"

we've got visual aids now for our cup sizes, all you have to do is point and agree when i tell you the name of the size. is it really so hard? before we got the cup display, i would always keep a set of cup sizes behind my register for people who would ask "how big is a _____?" i'd just pull them all out like russian nesting dolls and line 'em up on the counter so they couldn't argue with me. even then some people didn't get it.
ugh.

[Lou Sussler]

"so isn't it reasonable to say you have 3 sizes and 1 kids?"

No it isn't. I enjoy a daily Venti decaf or 2 and for a special treat, a short double decaf latte.

I used to be one of the assholes who insisted on ordering small and large until I started reading this board and found out about the short.

That's right, it's only coffee so why not order it the way the vendor is selling it? Really, whats the big deal?

[Kat]

None, Lou, so why are THEY making it a big deal? And I don't appreciate it being implied I'm an 'asshole' over something so trivial. Have a nice evening.

[anss]

NYC, we've come to an agreement in my store that "regular" always gets grande. It really hasn't taken much time to train our customers to this. I want to know where the hell there is a drink size called "regular" because I've never seen it.

[KAT2]

Now Kat, simmer down. I believe he called those who "insisted" on saying small, medium, large. Not those who sometimes say it. So in effect, he wasn't aiming it at you.

And I wouldn't say that they are making it a big deal. I sometimes slip up and say small, medium, etc, but it is THEIR product, and they have the right to market it ANY way they want.

[k-townbarista]

Mostly you guys have made me laugh.

We have one regular customer who refuses to use the correct terms even though we have yelled at him and sometimes refused to serve him at all. Now we just call back a 'Medium Americano' because it makes us giggle.

I notice nobody has said anything about espresso shots. They are served in a short cup but rung in as short, tall, grande, venti espresso. How much fun is that for new partners?

[Brendan]

So when I say that I want a "Solo Espresso con Panna", the barista has to enter something different into the register?

[sbuxgrrl]

KAT, you don't have to "memorize the lingo." Like you stated, the sizes that you need to know are written on the menu board. :)

[sbuxgrrl]

When a customer orders "regular," I ask them, "tall, grande or venti?" That is a close-ended question, and forces them to choose one of the three. It also educates them about our product. I remember one guy who trained me when I first started...a customer would order a cappuccino or a latte or whatever, and he would just stand there and stare at them, waiting for them to tell him the size. It was so mean! Finally, after 15-20 seconds, he would ask, "What SIZE, ma'am?"

[Theolaxor]

hey k-town barista, what k-town are you from - i am also from a k-town and am a barista

[MartUK]

Wotcher!

Kat, if your hubs gets hassle, I say turn it back on to them. Tell him to get really upset and indignant, ask to speak to the manager and then say that you know Howie personally and you'll tell him about the poor service next time you all go fishing on his yacht in the Maldives.

Then sit back and watch the manager flap and fluster. When you can't stand the fun any more, get hubby to to say;

"It's alright, I'm just having a laugh." Cruel, I know, but fun!

Brendan, that was a perfect example of how to order a drink. We love you, the Siren loves you, she will call you at 4 am to tell you so.

SBUXGRRL, that is really mean! I'll try that on my next shift. Mwa ha ha!