Starbucks baristas in Seattle choose indie coffee shop when they want espresso

Freshy's in West Seattle has a pinball machine, free Wi-Fi and an old, all-manual Italian espresso machine. The owner says employees from the nearby Starbucks regularly come over to Freshy's for their espresso. "I have baristas from Starbucks coming here, looking for a job and saying they have 'coffee experience,' " she says. "But at Starbucks, all they know how to do is push the buttons on the automatic machines." PLUS: More on the Schultz memo. (Washington Post)
> From the Los Angeles Times: "The Schultz memo is interesting and useful because it shows that even an iconic company that serves a highly addictive product can water down the immense value of its brand by expanding too far and too fast and in too many directions at once."

Comments

[Trevor V.]

When I'm in Seattle I usually go to Tully's down by the stadiums. Easily some of the best espresso I've ever had.

[manypeople]

I was fortunate to get 18 mos working on the La Marzocco.For the last 3 years it's been the souless Verissimo. I always seek out indie shops on my day off or go to Peets if i'm near one. I'm sick of our nasty tasting,smelling syrups. Monin has better flavors.I love the people i work with and some of our customers are really nice people but i miss the old Starbucks(pre crappacino)

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Here in Boston alot of the baristas go to Espresso Royale or Diesel in Somerville. Over there, Diesel is located directly across from a Starbucks with a fireplace. However, I will say that both of them have a very interesting vibe. Oh yeah, there is also a small coffee shop at the end of the B Line called the French Press which uses a pretty snazzy manual machine, although it doesn't smell like coffee as much as other places. There are also, a few coffee shops in the North End on Hanover Street like Caffe Victoria which creates a good latte or cappuccino. Many Bostonians here too agree that for real coffee, don't go to Starbucks, go to an independent coffee store. It is very hard to find a place that sells good whole bean Arabica. Starbucks is not the coffee merchant it used to be in the old days. The selection is very unvaried you might say. I think it started to go when we lost Arabian Mocha Java which I must say was perhaps the best coffee I remember.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
PRIMUS INTER PARES
STARBUCKS REBEL ALLIANCE

[smalrus]

bsr -

is there a new york starbucks rebel member of your rebel alliance? i could use a few words down here in queens from one of your equals...

[anss]

Boston Starbucks Rebel,

I TOTALLY agree on the Mocha Java. I can NOT stand Sanani, but the Arabian Mocha Java was the best. I also miss Bella Vista, New Gueinea Peaberry, and Brazil Iponeama (which I hear is coming back? Can anybody vouch??)

While I miss AMJ as well, I do love Sanani it is one of our better coffees. Bella Vista, Peaberry, and Iponeama are all seasonal now, and are likely to make some special appearances again, but I wouldn't count on it.

On a sidenote our new Black Apron from Zambia, is quite good.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Smalrus,
I am sorry but the Starbucks Rebel Alliance is a decentralized network of concerned Starbucks baristas. The unionization in New York City we believe goes against the core values of Starbucks, however because it appears to create a conflict between the salaried management and hourly baristas. Instead, the Starbucks Rebel Alliance realizes that it is necessary to recongize are all equal partners, we stand together in all issues. BTW, nice use on the Latin there, I wasn't sure if anybody would even understand that it meant "FIRST AMONG EQUALS."

I forgot some very important coffee shops here in Boston such as Uptown Espresso on Columbus Ave, Francesca's on Tremont St. and The South End Buttery on Shawmut Ave. near Union Square.

Just to clarify its Starbucks Bella Vista F.W. Rios® Costa Rica that tastes so wonderful. I do like to compare that with the Starbucks Guatemala Casi Cielo®. Even though I am not necessarily a strong fan of the Latin American coffees I do find their subtle flavors very challenging for one to pick out from one another. Its truly, a test of a Coffee Master's tongue to properly differentiate between them all.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
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[chi-town's best/angriest barista]

mmm, the guatemala casi cielo is probably my favorite coffee, and that means a lot comming from me, since i'm not much for drinking it straight. but this stuff is good. i was sad when our store ran out of it, so i have to go to other stores to get my markout now. :( keep that one around and get rid of some of the darkest roasts that are less popular. (yukon perhaps?)

But at Starbucks, all they know how to do is push the buttons on the automatic machines.

Just cause you work at Starbucks doesn't mean you don't know how to use a manual machine. :-P

[CuteBarista!]

i've been working in coffee bars constantly since my freshman year of college, in 1999. that's almost eight years of coffee. and six of them were spent on a manual machine.

i'm a little rusty, probably, but i can still get a mean shot of espresso with a little practice.

there's a great little coffee shop on South street here in Philly called The Bean Cafe. i was hanging out there and knitting with a friend last week and it just reminded HOW BADLY i want to work at an indie coffee place. to not have to deal with paper work, the massive amount of bullshit, to not have to worry about cds, books, pastry orders, stupid stuffed animals, my manager constantly breathing down my neck about something.

and most of all? i just really want to wear jeans to work. le sigh.

[averrycafinatedbarrista]

If I need to chill in a coffee shop, I tend to hang out in a little hole in the wall caffe on campus. its all student run and is literaly in one of the old student lounges. the shots are good, the people are friendly, and the entire place is all about social action and will champion many causes throuout the semester. I'd actualy work there, but Starbucks has better benifits.

also, I can vouch for the fact that Brazil Ippananese bourbon is indeed coming back along with decafinated Brekfast blend.

[JF]

Knowing how to use a manual espresso machine isn't some lost sacred art form either. At my store, we of course have moved to the "soulless" verissimo, but there are partners who know how to use a manual machine. The real point here, though, is that it's not that hard to learn. Any monkey could get it down in a few days and all the talk about "mastering" the "perfect" shot of espresso is just that: Talk. So long as it's not too fast or burned, the only customer who can tell how well his shot was tamped is the guy who orders 1/2 a pack of equal in his double short ristretto extra dry cappuccino and then stands at the bar staring at your glasses complaining about the crema he sees.

[chi-town's best/angriest barista]

okay, so JF's post just reminded me of this awful lady we get every day who also orderes a double short extra dry cappuccino, she'll practically grab the pitchers out of your hands and try to get it exactly right herself (this is totally off-topic, feel free to delete if you want) but is there something about that drink that makes people ruder than usual?

[averrycafinatedbarrista]

CHI-TOWN: it is just typical, starbuck-ian snobbery. its something about the place that brings out the penny pinching snobbery of people. for example:I have a customer that orders a iced venti soy, light ice, extra coffee, Caffe Con Leche, shaken. the man nearly jumped over the counter and attacked one of the new baristas when they got the proportions off. I took over and, thankfully, got everything correct.

I work nights now just to avoid him.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

CuteBarista,
Is there a coffee shop in Center City called Millenium Coffee? It shouldn't be that far from coffee shop that you just described. Also, there was a pretty good coffee shop in Olde City I believe near Arch Street. Let me know, thanks.

If you want to try to locate a indie coffee store go to

www.delocator.net

It works really well.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
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STARBUCKS REBEL ALLIANCE

[darthsid]

JF:

Tamp, keeping track of proper flow,
checking pump pressure and water temp
are all part of working with a manual machine.

The manual machine's more finicky, but definitely takes a fair amount of skill
and art, apart from simply packing grinds into a porta filter.

[Dustin5626]

I miss the manual machines, I was trained on those when I worked at Peet's... ah well. I wish I could find a cool indie coffee shop around here in L.A., but I never have any time.

[CuteBarista!]

BSR, i think the one you speak of is on 3rd street between...Market and Arch or Arch and Race. can't remember. it's called Cafe Ole. it's a nice one.

and of course, there's OId City Coffee.

i've never heard of Millenium Coffee, though.

there's a beautiful one on south 9th street (a stone's throw away from a starbucks) called Chapter House. it has great drinks and food and is GORGEOUS inside. they have a cast concrete countertop, which makes me happy.

[Texas 1]

caffe calabria in north park san diego is realy good..i used to live right by them ...they roast the coffee right there... in the front so u can watch they roasting process...really great...fresh and they do the french press for any coffee ...french presses still are nice...let's not forget to teach the newbies how to do em..

"I have baristas from Starbucks coming here, looking for a job and saying they have 'coffee experience,' " she says. "But at Starbucks, all they know how to do is push the buttons on the automatic machines."

We just recently got rid of our manual espresso machine. We were one of the last places on our area to have one.

[chi-town's best/angriest barista]

Ginkgo Coffee in st. paul minnesota, they still do live music and have an amazing variety of different tea flavors. Cahoots Coffeehouse too, they use real ceramic/glass cups for their drinks and the owner is this sweet little liberal hippie guy who does a majority of all the work himself. and the best part about these places? not a blender or piece of crappy merchandise in sight!

[Wetcoast Coffee]

http://starbucksgossip.typepad.com/_/2007/03/starbucks_baris.ht
ml#comments
Of course West Seattle is a desert, so if you
want a 'coffee break' out of the rain and away from
your place of work as specified in the Labor code,
you would go to anyotherplace than Starbucks.
Freshy's is one such place as the church is locked
down the street.

Starbucks highlighted highpriced sugary coffee
mixes, but they only pulled in a crowd that never went to
real coffee shops, as shown by the customers at existing
cafes when Starbucks opens up down the block.

[Say What?]

Boston Starbucks Rebel said "Here in Boston alot of the baristas go to Espresso Royale or Diesel in Somerville"

I guess this is another reason why Somerville is "God's Country" as my dad always told me it was. He and my mom were born and raised there (I was just born there).

I, personally, don't know if I would know a good shot from a bad shot. In the Cincinnati area (home of every chain restaurant you could ever want, and then some - blech) I don't think there are any indie coffee shops.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Say What?
I actually was only in Diesel once or twice and its like a GLBT-friendly atmosphere, not that Starbucks is not. However, I wish there were more GLBT owned and operated coffee stores and book shops here in Boston. Many people have complained that the GLBT culture here in Boston is dying. I think the same thing like Starbucks becoming diluted is occuring the GLBT community. I suppose it all started back in the 80's where my generation seems more focused on getting a good job, then having to worry about the right to marriage which we have here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Starbucks is forgetting its heritage and foundation just like many young GLBT persons have never heard of the Stonewall Riots.

If I ever left Starbucks and opened my own coffeehouse I would make sure that it would service that section of the population. It would be called "Rivendell" because it would a shelter from the world and one of the last outpost in the world for the true coffeehouse experience. However, for not I am at Starbucks trying to save the Company which once had a bright future and I still think there is alot to love and bleed some tears with.

It is finally interesting to note that even Howard Schultz notes that Starbucks customers are now going to independent coffee stores and says that the causes must be eradicated.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
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[manypeople]

Boston Starbucks rebal can i come work with you? I have a beautifull oil painting all picked out for my gay cafe, i will be glad to bring it to yours.Also can we not have a blender?

Caffe Ladro in the Seattle area is the best small coffeeshop around. There, I typically wait between 3 and 4 minutes for my double tall breve latte, and it is perfect 95 percent of the time. I typically wait just under 3 minutes for any breve at Starbucks, after the supervisor of course explains to the brand-new barista what a breve is, and for the handful of seconds I thus gained by visiting *$, I receive a drink that is tasty, oh, about half the time. Guess where I almost always go now?

(p.s. ladro's machines are manual, and their coffee is all fair trade shad grown organic, too.)

-i spill the beans

[brewed with room]

"...but is there something about that drink that makes people ruder than usual?"

People who drink cappuccino tend to actually like coffee.
They don't load up on syrups.
They enjoy the taste of espresso.

They don't want a latte that is mostly milk with barely any coffee taste.

I'll readily admit I don't order my cappuccinos from Starbucks because they rarely get them "right". Usually too much milk, not enough foam and the foam isn't thick enough nor is there enough of it.

Rather than be rude about it like the lady described I just don't order them. I stick with the things Starbucks does best. Lattes when I'm in a sweet mood and brewed coffee when I'm not. :)

My thoughts? Starbucks personnel bust their butts to make all these whacky, customized drinks with three syrups and whipped cream and half this milk, half the other...
Stop a minute, change modes and make a REALLY good cappuccino when asked for one. It can't be any harder than the other crazy stuff and the true coffee lover will suddenly love YOU. Lol.

~peace

[chi-town's best/angriest barista]

double-short-extra-dry cappuccino lady came in again yesterday, terrorizing us as usual. i think it's less that she's a coffee-lover, and more that she just likes to be rude and condescending to people "below" her. but that's just my guess. she's really the only problem cappuccino regular we have. "double tall cappuccino" is a really nice guy. and even the dry soy cappaccino people are decent.
it's not that caps are harder to make than the sugar-in-a-cup drinks, it's just that less people order them and more people want the overly-customized crap the company seems to be pushing so much.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Cappuccinos can be alot of fun to make if you do it right. I try to make all my cappuccinos free poured unless the customer wants it "wet" or "dry" or have it using soy milk. I presently have managed to prefect steaming so it is just as good and yummy as real milk. I also use my special recipe for making cappuccinos like an americano when it comes to shots, 2, 3 and 4 because the customer wants coffee. The original cappuccino was suppose to be a third coffee, a third milk and a third foam! Finally, try to free pour the milk into the cappuccino! Thats the key to making the best cappuccinos and it will create a great customer following.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
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[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Manypeople,
Well I was thinking of having wood sculpture throughout the coffeehouse with a small garden for the summer time and founation. The sculptures would be like semi-nude female and male figures from Greco-Roman mythology, anatomically correct of course. If there would be any artwork I think I would like that of Robert Mapplethorpe to be hung on the walls, the good stuff mind you. People simply need to learn how not to be ashamed of their beautiful bodies.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
PRIMUS INTER PARES
STARBUCKS REEBL ALLIANCE

[brewed with room]

One key to cappuccino, for me, is thick enough foam.
The milk you're steaming should double in volume.
When you've finished your cappuccino, there should be some foam left in the cup.
The foam should not turn, instantly, back into milk and dilute the drink.

I free pour at home all the time. A good foam will sit on the milk and not "pour" into the cup until the milk is mostly out of the pitcher.

A phenomenal cappuccino....
The foam is stiff enough that you can drizzle the smallest bit of vanilla syrup on top of it, giving it an extra hint of sweetness with each sip, without the foam disintegrating in the first few minutes of making the drink.

Course, this is just "my way" and probably not "Starbucks" way. Lol. I learned how I like my cappuccino from the owner of a very small, wonderful little shop in northern WI and it may not be "right" but it's how I like it. :)

~peace

[chi-town's best/angriest barista]

i agree, cappuccinos are pretty fun to make (except ventis) and even more so when there's not a huge rush and a line out the door so you can really take the time to steam the milk right. mine usually end up a bit on the dry side, so why double short extra dry cappuccino lady hates me i'll never know. i almost cried once when a lady i had made a particularily good cappuccino for came back to the bar with a spoon in her hand and was complaining that i didn't make the drink the way it was supposed to be because there was "nothing left in my cup" after she added all the sugars and stirred it around for a good few minutes. agh!

[margie]

I learned coffee first froma bunch of angry Italians. Since coming to Starbucks, the hardest switch for me has been to the Starbucks cappuccino style. It is totally different than what the old men like- which is just coffee and foam. No milk. No. Milk. And to have about 18ounces of foam seems ridiculous to me, so I inwardly recoil a bit when people order a venti cap. But there you go.

I also learned on a steam-powered monster of a machine where you had to slowly release the lever (which was as big as my arm) to pull the shots at just the right speed and which would routinely lift me from the floor at the last little lifring part. And the steam was adjustable (which I miss).

All this, uphill, both ways, in the snow...;)

All of this to say- I know why the cappuccino lady wants it dry. So make it dry. Make her happy- impress her. Win her.

And, yeah, concentrate on the coffee.

[Sarah D.]

Ugh, Caffe Ladro is nowhere near the best coffee in Seattle. I live in West Seattle and have yet to try Freshy's, but it has to be better than Ladro. There are many choices besides Starbucks in WS, but very few can be described as good. C&P is mediocre at best, Uptown's steam wand is disgusting and the espresso is bitter, and the Ladro over here has the rudest baristas that half-ass everything. I enjoy Verite Coffee (Cupcake Royale), although I may be biased because I used to work there. But it's the closest thing to Espresso Vivace on this side of the city. But I'd choose Starbucks over the WS Ladro any day.

[JF]

@darthsid

yeah man, I know there's more stuff to it. I didn't mean to say that it does not require more attention than an auto machine, I just mean that it truly is not that complicated. Any literate human being with two hands (and I suspect many without) could be trained in short time to operate the machine. We all learn to drive a car which requires watching the road, moving hands, feet, watching other cars, etc., etc.

Lladro the best in Seattle? No. Lighthouse, Vivace or Zoka would all be credible choices for the best.

Lladro isn't bad, but the service is snotty. And Peet's is better, and nicer.

[i spill the beans]

Let me defend my Ladro. I'm in Bothell, so the West Seattle staff is not really an issue for me. :) But the people are trained, and the drink is yummy pretty much every time. For me, drink quality is 80 percent of the battle, friendliness counts for 20 percent, and speed counts for pretty much nothing. Now if you need a sincere-looking fake smile and a "thankshaveaniceday" mumbled at you, then maybe your priorities are different.

People don't come back for a crappy product. :)

Good night.

-ISTB

[Darleen]

Margie, you crack me up! Uphill both ways in the snow, hehehe. What a sense of humor. I totally agree with your statement though, make her happy, impress her, win her over. We can do that!!

[Che]

There is a gem of a coffee house in WS called Cafe Rozella. The drinks are consistently excellent and the baristas are true to the Italian tradition. Plus Cafe Rozella has a great vibe.