A reader asks: How many Starbucks stores still have La Marzocco espresso machines?

A Starbucks Gossip reader writes: "I was told at work that there are only 5 stores in North America that still have the good old La Marzocco [espresso machine]. My store is one and I've also read somewhere on your website that there is one in Seattle near where Uncle Howie [Starbucks chairman Howard Schultz] lives. I think partners reading this website can help identify the other stores and probably customers and partners alike would be like to hunt down these exclusive locations and taste the difference themselves."

Chime in if your store has a La Marzocco (or if you know where they're at).

Comments

[dukpoki]

has anyone else noticed that the much hyped convection ovens at their sbux stores are breaking down? i've been to 3 different stores in SoCal, and all 3 were out of order. one barista said there's been a recall on one of the oven's parts.

what a bummer, after all that hype for warm breakfast sandwiches.

I work in SoCal and have had warming since November. So far no break downs at all...

I know of three...1 at Toronto Sick Kids Hospital, 1 at an Indigo in Toronto, and the one at Pike's Place

[chi-town's best/angriest barista]

we've got verismos. always have, probably always will.
but man, i wish out ovens would break down, i hate those things.

[volusia]

From what the only poster who commented on the topic said, it appears that there are more than five. Five sounds like such a small number for thousands of stores internationally.

The rest of you, come on now. You can post about whatever you want in the open thread.

[cornfrost]

At least until fairly recently, there were some in NYC, including the Harlem store on 125th St. I haven't been there since they remodeled, however. I will try to notice now, in my travels around the city.

[koohii]

Which Indigo bookstore in Toronto?

[BurntOutShift]

There are several in my area. Edison, NJ and I believe the Route 1 North store in Woodbridge, NJ stil has theres. There's also one further north on Route 1 that has one, up near Elizabeth. So thats three at least in my area alone.

[Lou Sussler]

The last time I was at the Main Street Flushing store, they still had the old machines, but that was 6 months ago or so.

I think it is the Indigo in Richmond Hill (just north of Toronto), but I could be wrong.

[zepling]

We use the San Marco at my store. It's acting up right now (the shots are coming out a little on the slow side) but I wouldn't want an automatic machine. I wish more stores used manual machines.

[Allyson]

Is there REALLY a difference in quality between the old machines and the automatics? For those who have used both, what's the difference in time it takes to pull shots?

[euro barista]

every starbucks i went into in japan had them.
i saw one in london, too.

[Christine]

Just a question: so new stores are only installing the automatics? Does anyone know if there are any on Long Island, NY?

[Anonymous]

Allyson,

The La Mazzarcos' shots go between 14 to 23 seconds. 23 is the max while 14 to 17 seconds are ristretto shots. However the idea is to get between 18 to 23 seconds.

The Verismos go from 14 to 17, I think. It's been a while though. I truly prefer the manual machines..the shots taste better with a richer body and crema. The heart forms nicely initially before topping out.

The only drawback is the manual machines cause some tendonitis BUT if you do it properly, you'll be fine and also, the grinders are separate in two..one for decaf and the other regular...which can get loud if you keep it on all day...to the point where you may get a headache.
And once the steam wand is wiped down, clean of milky froth that sticks to it, you can put a pitcher of cold water to it and keep it cool without over-heating. That's one reason why I like using manual thermometers because digital thermos on the Verismos could malfunction. It's almost difficult to cool off the digital steam wand due to the size and clean it off.

That's why the manual machines have a 'human' touch to the crafting of the drinks. Autos? There's no art to it.

I think they need to re-engineer the manual machines to perform better and improved ergonomics..without continuing with automatic machines. I think the Verismos are a mistake.

[K]

I went to a starbucks in Chicago last summer (in Lincoln Park, I think) that had a LaMarzocco. I'm not a barista, but I can totally tell the difference in the taste between a drink from an automatic and a super-automatic machine -- whether at Starbucks or anywhere else.

When I ordered the drink at this Chicago starbucks, I took one sip and was surprised by how good my latte tasted. I looked over at the bar, and sure enough, it was one of the old machines. :)

[jen]

"The La Mazzarcos' shots go between 14 to 23 seconds. 23 is the max while 14 to 17 seconds are ristretto shots. However the idea is to get between 18 to 23 seconds."

incorrect. wrong. misinformation or mistraining, your choice, but nothing in your statement is correct.

a manual machine can have a shot pull anywhere from 2second to 5 minutes (or more, you get the idea) because it will pull for as long as you push the manual button. ideally, you should work with your grind so that your shot is still pouring good espresso but not yet blonding and ends somewhere between 20-30 seconds- this is accepted industry standard, with 22-25 being ideal.

a ristretto shot is not a shot that you just stop early, it's actually the opposite. it's a shot that you have used a finer grind or up-dosed so that you pull the same amount of time (20-30 seconds) but yield 1-1 1/2 ounces instead of 2.

it's understandable the you don't know this working on fully autos, and working for starbucks, because they train you to recite the company mantra rather than what espresso is actually about.

[sbuxmanager]

Manhattan: there's one on like 75th and 1st or in that area.

Stoughton, MA

Chicago: 150 N. Wacker, Clark and Dickens, Madison between Michigan and Wabash, Lincoln and Wilson.

Maybe Nyack, NY still has one too.

[Youth]

the old manual machines make way better shots, no question. its not even subtle. i've talked to our techs about the differences between the verismo and the marzocco, and they say if you calibrated the verismo properly, you could get a shot similar to the old machines, but that they don't let them do that.
as far as i know, there's one store i know of here in houston that still has the old machine, i believe.

[jabanga]

jen actually all starbucks shots are 1 oz shots so really they are all ristretto shots. anonymous was right that starbucks standard for a good shot on the la marzocca machines is 18-23 seconds. as far as "accepted industry standard" i believe it is up to the business owner to decide standards for their own business. personally, for a one ounce shot i do prefer a 17-18 second shot because they get bitter after that. as for the dreaded verisimos they need to be kept calibrated for as close to a 17 second shot as possible to make shots with decent body and flavor.

that's my 2 cents.

[Chicago? Really! OMG!]

sbuxmanager, you have made my day! If those Chicago stores still have the La Marzocco, I am one happy camper (or at least I will be tomorrow when I visit the Madison store)!

[hugsandmugs]

we had one until last august (north chicago suburbs). i miss the quality of espresso dearly, but do not miss the aches and pains i had in my hands, wrists and arms every day. we were the last in our district to have it.

[416shift]

pretty sure that both Yorkdale and Eaton Center Indigos have La Marzocco

[jen]

sorry, I should have clarified that I was talking about the industry standard for doubles.

starbucks doesn't pull ristrettos. it pulls singles. and piss poor ones if you find 17 seconds acceptable. I have never had a decent or even passable shot at starbucks-

if your shot's are only 17 seconds it's because your company wants to speed up service rather than produce good coffee. you're right that it'd taste like crap if you let it go longer without adjusting the grind- go a little finer and you'll find a world of difference.

but you don't get to adjust your grind or tamp or brew time. it's laughable that you call yourselves barristas. you're button pushers at best. what you do requires no knowledge (which you all prove over and over again on this site) or skill.

you have great customer service, but crap coffee.

[BurntOutShift]

Jen, your comments are unnecessarily harsh.

Our job does require knowledge (for we must retain the massive library of drink recipes in our head, what our favorite customers order each day, information on the coffees we brew and the practices that Starbucks takes part in). Just because we are using automatic machines does not mean that we lack skill. While we are trained to have better customer service skills as opposed to manual shot pulling, that doesn't make us any better or any worse than any other barista, on a general level. It all depends on each individual baristas attitude about their job. You can put some of the art back into the drink making even without the automatics.

I find it funny that you find us so deplorable yet you come here to post. By all means, rant at us to your hearts content but why do you find it necessary? Go practice your obviously UNBEATABLE! barista skills.

[K]

"The Verismos go from 14 to 17, I think. It's been a while though."

I think it's 13 to 18 for standard... but maybe they made them more lax? Hmm.

I was a barista for starbucks and I'm currently a barista at a small coffee house. Frankly, I don't think one job was any harder than the other. There is definitely a difference in taste, but I really don't feel there is a difference in skill level required of the barista.

you guys can argue it, but really, it's the truth.

I've worked on both, more on the la marzoco, but the biggest difference I've found is that on the verissimo you dont really check the calibration often enough...I had a barista tell me the V was pulling way too long so I timed it and it was bang on...On the automatics, it seems like we've gotten a bit away from the quality control we had over the manuals.
That being said, I do not miss burning a whole pitcher of milk or having to dump the whole grinder because a storm rolled in and the humidity and barometric pressure
changed....Good and bad in both I guess. :)

[jabanga]

jen you are entitled to your opinions. you obviously have some interest in starbucks or you wouldn't be reading or posting here. the shots pulled on a la marzocca at starbucks are in fact one oz. doubles. you are showing your ignorance by saying a barista at starbucks does not get to adjust their grind. even on the verisimos that is how the shot time is adjusted. and yes, i like 17 second shots from a la marzocca. if you think that means i know nothing about good coffee that is just silly because really, you know nothing about me.

[NZBarista]

This site is hilarious! I am never failed by the Americans... no matter what the topic is there is always dozens and dozens of people who feel the need to argue over topics that have little or no knowledge about...even though they work for the company, and Starbucks is a black and white, cut and dried company, everything is spelled out for us in resource manuals...and yet nobody seems to know what they are talking about! Well on the other side of the world we do things differently, we actually manually pull shots and steam milk and handicraft beverages... many of us love our jobs and know them like the back of our hands... A vast majority of our stores in NZ use the La Marzocco and the industry standard for a La Morzocco is 18-23 seconds, with a 20 second shot tasting perfect and a 17 second shot tasting watery, a 24 second shot tastes bitter, hence we only ever use shots between 18-23 seconds and you should be timing your shots every 15 minutes or more often if a quality issue arises - La Mozocco partners are also trained to recognise a perfect shot by eye. And a La Mozocco partner can taste the difference between an 18 second shot and a 23 second shot in their drink. A Verismo I do believe has an industry standard of 13-17 seconds and you should be timing your shots every 15minutes or more often if a quality issue arises. But guess what. Nothing is going to change the fact that it is a 13-17 second shot and it tastes watery. La Morzocco partners typically dislike working with Varismo-trained partners since they have no idea how to correctly steam milk, pull perfect shots, adjust their tamp to compensate for the change in air temperature, change the grind...the list goes on. Drink quality is significantly lower in a Verismo store in NZ than it is in a La Morzocco store, however, this could be partly due to barista skill - they just don't have it! What is it like in the USA? I suppose Verismo is the norm so you guys have adjusted. Hey it's like anything. You get great people and you get cr*p people, I always make my own drinks so I suppose I shouldn't be complaining. (But wait for it. Because there will be some smartar** out there who has to comment and probably even try to discredit something I have said! What an awesome site this is. Free speech and so on so forth. $5 someone posts soon asking where NZ is!!!) End rant.

[Varismo]

where's NZ ?

[QC Latte]

Anon:
"That's one reason why I like using manual thermometers because digital thermos on the Verismos could malfunction. It's almost difficult to cool off the digital steam wand due to the size and clean it off."

We should always, ALWAYS, use a thermometer as the temperature probe on the Verismo has no indicator on it. It is a safety only. There to prevent you blowing up a milk pitcher.

Second, the steam wand on the 801 is significantly smaller in diameter than the LA Marzocco ones, so that part doesn't even make sense, really.

Jen:
"it's understandable the you don't know this working on fully autos,"

I will ignore your jabs and get to the facts you may wish to revise: The 801 is not a 'fully automatic' machine. It takes constant watching by the partners to be fully operational. Unfortunately, this often gets overlooked by folks during training and we end up needing service for the machines that we could have prevented if the baristas were not of the same mindset as you that it was truly 'automatic'.

It's more like 'automated'. And when manned by someone who is attentive, it can produce a nice shot. I've used many types of machines, auto and manual, and while I'd love to use a manual all the time, our customers complain as is when a drink takes three minutes during a crowded morning. So how would taking longer make them happier?

And we all know that's what it's about.

[darthsid]

Worked with a LaMA all my life in SBUX. I'm in a foreign market anyway, and Verismo shots definitely taste more watery.

[Lou Sussler]

That's funny NZ b/c my impression is that Europeans argue much more about things which they know much less about then we do.

I only know one NZer personally so I can't make broad generalizations about you. She is a pleasant down to earth young woman.

[Jason]

Uhhh ... New Zealand is not in Europe.
As far as Superautomatic machines are concerned, I have yet to taste a shot out of a Superauto that comes close to a well pulled shot on a traditional machine. Because we are super cool we use a Simonelli Aruela plus with bottomless portofilters. I think this causes our baristas to pay much closer attention to shot quality. If you are even a little off you can tell instantly. The automation that Sbucks has done over the past few years really takes away from the true cafe expirience Sbuck used to be gourmet coffee but now there is not much difference between a Sbuck and Dunkin Dounuts.

[Finnerty]

I think everyone is failing to notice two important aspects of this debate.

1) People who look at coffee-related sites are going to have a higher-than-average knowledge of coffee and bar skill. Therefore, most posting here will prefer a manual machine because they know how to work it.

But as there are thousands of newly trained partners in the company, a great percentage of them do not have the same knowledge or skill. An Automatic machine will thus greatly improve the average shot. Speaking as an espresso-drinker who consistently get awful shots from people who do not know how to work manual machine, I can say I am glad that Starbucks has made the switch. Another thing to mention is that Verissimo shots are perfect for sugar laden drinks. Only a very very small number of customers would be able to tell difference between a good auto and a good manual pour.

2) Verissimo machines can easily double the number of drinks that can be prepared in the same amount of time. This gives the barista much more time for customer service and quality control.

I'm sure anyone working in a high-volume store--or anyone who has to train new employees--understand the overwhelming benefits the Automatic machines offer.

[Taylor]

I'd like Jen to work a 80-100 customer half-hour and then come back here with her "you're all crappy at what you do" argument.

If most Starbucks employees wanted to be career coffee artists, they would either a) work at an independent or b) open their own shop. We are a high-volume retail establishment, period.

99% of my customers have no clue what espresso is supposed to taste like. Their quality control comes from one experience: consistency. Think about that for a minute or two. They just want their drink to taste the same everyday. If that means that one day we pour lattes out of a dispenser, they probably wouldn't care.

We do not individually claim to be great baristas, our company develops that as an image. So coming here and belittling us for some complex you think we have just makes you look arrogant.

I've been to New Zealand a couple of times. It's practially a third world country, or at least a generation or so behind America and the more civilized parts of Europe and Asia economically. You can sit around being all handcrafty and pretentious because your customers have no problem waiting while their sheep graze out on the lawn front of the store. You want to know why people don't know where NZ is? You don't matter, that's why.

(ok, I only half meant that rant, but those Kiwis deserve a little kick in the pants)

Jen sounds jealous not to be working at Starbucks....its understandable that "others" dispise those of us that get great benefits, awesome work environments, and an opporunity to grow with such a fantastic company.

[Darleen]

"You want to know why people don't know where NZ is? You don't matter, that's why."

Looks like not much has changed since I've been gone...I just checked out new zealand on the web, it looks like it is beautiful. The person who said NZ was in europe, now that was priceless!! Tee-hee

[Lou Sussler]

Uhhhh

I don't think I said that NZ was in Europe.

[Lou Sussler]

On re-reading my first comment, I think the post was clear and precise.

1) IMO, Europeans do something more often than the NZ guy indicated that he is constantly amazed that Americans do.

2) I don't have an opinion as to what NZers would do because I only know one of them.

[zepling]

Everyone keeps discussing the difference in taste regarding the shots, but what about the foam? I think the foam is significantly better on the manual machines. I think being able to use the manual machine is one of the few reasons I'm still at B&N.

[maggie]

In Manhattan it's the store at 76th and 2nd that still has the old machines. 75th and 1st has the Verissimos.

[jen]

oh, I don't think you're "crappy at what you do". I think you're GREAT at what you do, but what you do is put out crappy coffee. consistent coffee, but consistently crappy coffee. it's not your fault, it's the company you work for, but it's absurd for you to call yourself a barrista, and it's an insult to people who work hard to make good coffee and develop the craft. and there are several on this website that claim to be great barristas, individually, which is what I find laughable.

and as for me being jealous of your great work environment where you have to churn out 8 million sub par drinks in an hour and aren't scheduled enough labor to even wipe down a condiment bar-yep. I wish I had that. and I am guessing I pay less for my benefits than you do, as my coffeehouse takes nothing out of my paycheck for them- they pay fully. so I must be jealous of your opportunity to grow... oh wait, no I became a store manager in less than a year here. so, I'm going to go with not so jealous, just irritable because morons come in and complain that they can taste actual coffee in the latte that I made them, because it's not like starbucks, and why isn't there any sugar in it? I want my 16 pump caramel crap!

why do I come here? because it's like a train wreck- you just can't look away.

actually, it's spelled BARISTA jen, learn it...

[a real barista]

Yeah, we are all jealous we don't get to work for such a great company. LMAO inside more than you could know. I wouldn't work for that piss off of a company for a million dollars or more. So, dream on, wake up and smell the coffee. There is life outside the Charbucks. There really is.

[harmaa]

Barrista? Yup, that is pretty laughable.

Barista, on the other hand...

[jen]

well, according to websters, either variant of the spelling is correct.

but thanks for the correction, it's true that the single R is more common here in america. and my browser flags both spellings.

but hey, my claim wasn't that you could or couldn't spell (or me either) just that you can't pour a decent shot of espresso with a fully auto.

[dc]

We definatly had ours taken away lst fall. I miss it!! it was a lot of fun to work on, and I think it keeps the idea of Espresso bars alive. Unfortunatly, they weren't as fast as these new tastless Verismos and thats the main reason we had to get rid of ours...that and the fact that the portifilters were completely screwed. haha.