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May 02, 2008
OPEN THREAD conversation-starter: What do you think of a writer's claim that Starbucks has become a 2008 version of the Gap?
The Gap hit a critical mass a decade ago and competitors had caught on to its strategies. With that, customers didn't find the store as exciting as they once did. "The same, presumably, could be said of Starbucks," writes Merek Fuchs. He questions Howard Schultz's excuses for the company's slowdown. (Starbucks has gotten too big and has more competition, he says.) Discuss this story or anything else Starbucks-related in the open thread.
May 2, 2008 | Permalink
Comments
anybody find out what the new "smoothies" officially are?
Posted by: Barista Joe | May 2, 2008 1:11:59 PM
It's an interesting contrast with the McDonald's analogy that many are drawing. However, fashion trends are much more volatile than those in food service - coffee in particular. Perhaps Applebees is a more apt comparison, although I am more sanguine on what the future holds for SBUX.
Posted by: Coffee-Rob | May 2, 2008 1:15:49 PM
So on the money -- I thought exactly the same thing after I heard about the "new" smoothies.
This is a company that doesn't know how to differentiate itself anymore. I don't think it's because of any particular move they made -- like breakfast sandwiches -- but an overarching bad strategy, a failure to produce a real competitive advantage over the years.
Just having a bunch of stores all over the place isn't a real competitive advantage. It doesn't lock your customers into your product or keep out competitors. All it does is get you foot traffic, and expensive foot traffic at that.
McDonald's can expand much more profitably than Starbucks with their franchise model. They can make better use of their variable costs -- labor, etc. -- to produce, say, a latte. A guy slinging a burger can turn around and make a latte; he's already there. SBUX has to hire baristas just to make lattes.
And, turning the situation on its head, McDonald's has -- for better or worse -- very unique products. I'd wager that Starbucks cannot easily make a hamburger that tastes just like theirs. That doesn't mean theirs is the "best" hamburger, just that it's unique and well-differentiated. But McDonald's can make lattes, and it's hard to say whether most people know the difference (or care).
Schultz, by buying Clover, is onto the right idea -- that Starbucks has to differentiate by providing unique products. But that doesn't mean Clover is enough, or anything else for that matter. Smoothies most definitely are not. And more so, the company has lost a ton of ground in the last few years.
I think this is just what happens when a company gets too big and doesn't have a strong culture at the top. Schultz basically handed off the thing to a smart, but nuts-and-bolts operations manager who didn't fundamentally "get" this whole coffee thing they're doing. He made lots of tactical decisions but turned the whole brand into a commodity in doing so.
The Gap did basically the same thing. They hired a turnaround guy who is smart but doesn't understand fashion. And after awhile, the brand means nothing (or worse than nothing).
It'll take a miracle for Schultz to turn the business around, honestly. He's smart, but his competitors are absolutely vicious and proven. Personally I think the company should close a ton of stores, consolidate the product line into something really unique, and buy out a few competitors (PEET comes to mind) so they can "own" a niche.
We'll see ...
Posted by: JMW | May 2, 2008 1:32:15 PM
Just came back from my local Starbucks. I got a frappuccino and mentioned to the barista that I hadn't had one in almost a year. After she gave me my drink, she went and got me a recovery coupon to make sure I didn't wait a year for my next one! (I'm a drip only regular there).
How darn cool is that?
Posted by: Bushrod | May 2, 2008 1:54:59 PM
Thanks for the story, Bushrod! That is exactly why I love this company- we are empowered to go the extra mile, and I love seeing happy customers.
Posted by: P.R.I.D.E. | May 2, 2008 2:00:04 PM
How about a "Spring Cleanup Day".Clean the stores inside and out.Wash the windows and doors,pressure wash outside ,get rid of dried spilled drinks and dog hair; actually scrub some of the tables.Where the landlord has control SBUX should demand action as they're usually the the most important tenant.In my area of Seattle the material aspect of my coffee experience needs a little attention; the coffee's great!
Posted by: kilroy | May 2, 2008 2:05:09 PM
Mr. Fuchs' commentary is Right On!
Schultz continues to ignore his competition -- he even denies MCD is competition!
With that type of attitude, he'll continue the downward slide of a once admired company/Brand into the GAPS of retail...
Posted by: prre | May 2, 2008 2:34:46 PM
oh people come on!! the sky is falling!the sky is falling! home depot reported today it is closing 15 stores. it is the first time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a store for perfomance reasons. ummmmm - sound familiar?? analysts have worried that as home depot gets bigger, it would invariably put stores in direct competition with excisting stores, known as "cannibalization." umm - sound familiar?? at my store we had a great "cleaning party", we cleaned every corner of the store and outside too!!.....our society overflows with critics, cynics and faultfinders. few take the time to point out anything you are doing right! our customer voice has definitely approved over the past 2 months!! COME ON PARTNERS - focus, believe, and share the legendary experience that only STARBUCKS can deliver!!!!!!onward howie.........
Posted by: smokey | May 2, 2008 3:33:14 PM
Mr. Howard Schultz may not view McDonalds as a competitor however McDonald certainly views Starbucks as one.
Their new latte television commercials are hilarious.
"I can read gossip magazines now"
"I can't speak French"
"I don't know where Paraguay is"
"Paraguay?"
Posted by: Joe | May 2, 2008 4:25:13 PM
That good?
j.
Posted by: Jim Lane | May 2, 2008 4:48:23 PM
JMW:
Kudos! Your post is one of the smartest things I've read about Starbucks anywhere. But my curiosity is killing me. Who the hell are you? Care to de-cloak? C'mon. Pretty please?
Posted by: Torontodude | May 2, 2008 4:49:38 PM
I would have to say that a lot of what JMW has to offer, is debatable:
1) This is a company that doesn't know how to differentiate itself anymore
I will grant that Starbucks has made a series of mistakes that we need to correct on our own. However, I think a lot of the perception of Starbucks troubles has been built by every "top of the hour" newstory releasing test market info, casting doubt, and negatively influencing our customer base. More often than not, I am seeing Starbuckgossip being cited as a credible source. Are you kidding me? A gossip site? I am so tired of the bad press, because the reality is that the only reason we're being used as a scapegoat is for our recognized brand (drawing more viewers). I wonder why we don't see Arby's critiques on the 6'oclock news...
Just having a bunch of stores all over the place isn't a real competitive advantage.
Having an option to pick up a starbucks coffee more often than any other competitor allowed us to grow at warp speed. It is exactly what maintained our competitive advantage, in a growth market. It is the market change that has caused this to not be a competitive advantage.
A guy slinging a burger can turn around and make a latte; he's already there. SBUX has to hire baristas just to make lattes.
This is said straight from a Folger's addict, I suppose. And I would think that McDonald's customers would agree that the guy slingin the burger could sling a latte. I couldn't be more grossed out with that concept, and believe that this comes down to socioeconomics- your mid-high level earners will agree with me, your low income earners would care less. Quality of Life essentially...
I'd wager that Starbucks cannot easily make a hamburger that tastes just like theirs. That doesn't mean theirs is the "best" hamburger, just that it's unique and well-differentiated. But McDonald's can make lattes, and it's hard to say whether most people know the difference (or care).
Please go and try their hazelnut iced coffee and come back here and make the same statement. It is clearly marketed to all demographics, but the reality is that your value minded, lower income demographic won't care, but your mids-high demographic will spit it out (just like I did, and mind you I fall into the "lower income" category)
Posted by: SoCalRocks! | May 2, 2008 5:35:15 PM
Your mid to high demographic group is rarely found at McDonald's period. They eat healthier than that (usually). Sure, there are going to be exceptions, but statistically, higher-income earners have longer life-spans often correlated with both better access to medical care AND a generally healthier lifestyle which is going to include avoiding places like McDonalds.
This is the crux of the problem of what Starbucks has to do? Do they want to maintain a bit of an exclusivity or do they want to be the coffee of anyone and everybody.
I almost agree with Howard Schultz that McDonald's is NOT the competition, so long as Starbucks maintains a certain 'premium environment' that appeals to the higher-income bracket individuals (I guess I would define that as someone making over $50,000 a year, but really, you can't get very far on $50k a year in Seattle.)
Posted by: Melody | May 2, 2008 5:48:52 PM
Well, I just had another customer complain about the 30-min hold time for coffee (it's always just expired when they come in). Now, I know we can brew larger batches than 1/4, but we can't predict the future. I don't know when someone is going to come in and order a coffee before they come in, so I always brew 1/4 batches when it's slow, in other words, doing what the company expects, right?
I know 30-min hold time is done because of the freshness and quality, but I'm not sure this is going to work. I rarely had any customers complain when our coffee was held for an hour.
What does everyone else think? Any partner had customer complaints? Any customers who post here have any complaints regarding this? I'm intrigued to know.
Posted by: Cali ASM | May 2, 2008 6:19:50 PM
I think the 30 minute hold time is crazy.
Yesterday I was at Starbucks and got to the register just when some Verona "had expired." I begged for a cup of it. I'm an addict, and I cannot tell the difference between a 30 minute hold time and one hour.
The Verona coffee was wonderful!
Posted by: Melody | May 2, 2008 6:34:02 PM
Cali ASM:
We solved this problem by having two shuttles for both decaf and regular. This way, when the partner at the register sees the hold time is getting below 10 minutes, they immediately start brewing the next batch. That way, there may be a little overlap (with 2 pots of fresh decaf, for example), but you're never caught empty-handed.
(And it's simple enough to do- if another partner walks by and sees that the time's getting low, they can give the register partner a tap on the shoulder to let them know.)
Melody, I beg to (respectfully) differ! I'm not a big brewed coffee drinker, but the 1hr-hold coffee tastes more 'burnt' to me. But hey, we're all entitled to our opinions! :D
Posted by: MusicGal | May 2, 2008 6:41:11 PM
Has Howard ever said who he thinks Starbucks competition is?
Posted by: Joe | May 2, 2008 7:46:28 PM
This whole thing with McDonalds is beyond stupid. Socalrocks is exactly right. Those of us who live healthy would not be caught dead in a McDonalds. I haven't been in one in more than 10 years. And as for McDonald's really stupid ads that make fun of SBX customers, please. I am not ashamed that I don't really like football, that I know where Paraguay is or that I have half a brain. I go to SBX for one thing--coffee. Brewed coffee.
And speaking of brewed coffee, why aren't there four brewing machines in every SBX. Then you can change one out every 15 minutes and there is always one fresh?
Last week while visiting Denver, I was in hog heaven. Every SBX I went into was brewing my favorite, Komodo. Outstanding.
Posted by: DrKoob | May 2, 2008 7:49:03 PM
Melody- my thoughts exactly. Once we're comfortable articulating that our environment is premium (and we do the work to back it up in the stores) then we'll solve for most of the issues.
But folks, we're kidding ourselves if we think this will be easy. A premium environment dictates that we are right in our actions, 100% of the time, stop focusing on what we coulda/shoulda done, and focus on the customer right in front of you. Invite them into our stores, like it is our home. And keep it cleaner than your home (in most cases). :)
And please don't forget about customer recovery- it is your opportunity to make it right. Respectfully challenge if you're told otherwise. Think about it- could we give out customer recovery 10% of the time and build our brand that way, vs. having to resort to printing free coffee coupons in newspapers(like MCDs)?
Posted by: SoCalRocks! | May 2, 2008 7:55:51 PM
Musicgal, I respect your sage opinion! Okay, I retract what I say about the 30 minute versus 60 minute hold times until I've done a taste test on this!
Posted by: Melody | May 2, 2008 8:15:33 PM
To caliasm/melody,
Either start brewing a fresh batch of coffee when the timer is starting to hit the 5 minute limit, or serve the coffee that just barely hits over 30 minutes, it's not a huge difference if it's only 5 minutes over the 30 minute limit.
There shouldn't be many complaints about the 30 minute rule from customers, considering Starbucks started using the new rule BECAUSE customers were complaining that our coffee always tasted 'burnt'. Basically the only thing wrong with the 30 minute hold time is that you might run out of coffee for 5 minutes if someone decides to order 3 Venti's, 7 Ventis, or a big lineup for brewed coffee appears and catches you unaware while you're still brewing quarter or half batches.
Posted by: tobarista | May 2, 2008 8:21:56 PM
At many stores, there aren't enough urns to brew a backup before the old pot expires, so people will always have to wait. It actually embarrasses me when I have to make people wait for their coffee so often. It is a COFFEE SHOP. We shouldn't be out of coffee, but there's nothing I can do about it.
Posted by: baristacee | May 2, 2008 8:42:08 PM
Thank you guys for your opinions/help. I really appreciate it. I like some of your ideas. The one about having four shuttles would be great, unfortunately, my store is an older, smaller store and we only have room for three: PPR, Decaf PPR, and morning pick.
I know after 12pm I could use the morning pick shuttle for PPR or decaf, but we're never 100% sure when a large group of customers are going to order drip and we don't want to waste too much (even though Howard himself said we were going to waste more coffee than sale). Hmmm, maybe that's were I'm flawed.
You're right Tobarista, the reason the 30-min hold time exists is because customers complained. What is that saying, let's see, oh yeah, I remember: "you're damned if you do and damned if you don't."
Posted by: Cali ASM | May 2, 2008 8:48:43 PM
I think it's a fair comparison. Not entirely true but it's a good comparison - I mean, I used to think that about the Gap and I stopped shopping there because I always found their clothing and fashions to be 2 or 3 years behind everyone else. Now I was just in the other day and their new stuff is great! They've started rolling out new store designs, the staff are friendlier, the clothes are better quality and more fashionable and the prices are more competitive.
In other words, the Gap is once again an it-brand after a decade of trying to reinvent itself.
Hopefully the same happens with Starbucks...
Posted by: Tim | May 2, 2008 9:38:50 PM
I have said it before on these boards and I will say it again......$tarbucks is fallen "out of fashion".....simple as that....It's really not the "cool" thing anymore....It's like the old adage: "anything easily had is not worth having".If the mainstream wants it everybody wants it-when the mainstream has it nobody wants it! $tarbucks did this to themselves.GREED, GREED, GREED. Now it's coming back to bite them in the a$$.
Posted by: Former $tarbuckie | May 2, 2008 10:00:28 PM
Dear TOBARISTA:
A diner is a coffee shop. Starbucks is a coffee bar.
Posted by: MC | May 3, 2008 12:59:28 AM
Have to disagree with some of the folks dismissing the McD's thing - people who eat healthy still go to McD's once in a while when they're in a hurry - they don't only sell hamburgers - some of their breakfast fare is actually good for the person like myself who has to have protein (the $1, smaller, sausage breakfast burrito is an example - not talking McGriddles et al here.)
I gave in and ordered a black coffee to see what the fuss is about - and I have to say - I "get" why people are opting for it. It rivals any drip coffee I've ever been served at Starbucks, and I was shocked to hear myself thinking that, but truly, it's decent! As to whether they can do the fancy stuff with the McCafe lattes and such? Who knows - but I got a decent cup of black coffee in less than a minute, and my choice of hot breakfast items, never had to leave my car. Better than the gas station stuff, smoother than most of the roasts at Starbucks, not quite the nuance of other roasts at the other coffee chain I go to.
Don't understimate the draw of the "one stop shop." They do have something to worry about when it comes to folks who just take their coffee straight up, no frills, no fuss - which is not necessarily the usual Starbucks crowd, but definitely the untapped market Starbucks is trying to appeal to with Pike Place Roast. They might be regretting their decision to stop the breakfast sandwiches, though the stores around me never had them to start with, so it's always been a 2-part journey on those mornings when I want "the works."
Posted by: Anonymouse | May 3, 2008 2:34:28 AM
How about a "Spring Cleanup Day".Clean the stores inside and out.Wash the windows and doors,pressure wash outside ,get rid of dried spilled drinks and dog hair; actually scrub some of the tables.Where the landlord has control SBUX should demand action as they're usually the the most important tenant.In my area of Seattle the material aspect of my coffee experience needs a little attention; the coffee's great!
Posted by: kilroy | May 2, 2008 2:05:09 PM
_____________________________________
in my area at least - just north of the border from you - this is done at least once a month automatically. mats etc are pressure washed, as are the patio, windows/walls/ceilings higher than 10 feet, etc. i would assume that it's the same (or very similar) there. it does get done, you just don't see it because it takes all of five minutes to become messy again :)
Posted by: kirsty | May 3, 2008 3:24:23 AM
Yesterday on our way to a wedding around 4 in the afternoon, my wife and I stopped at a local Starbucks in Forest Lake Minnesota ( about 20 miles north of St Paul ). It was raining pretty hard that day so we went through the drive-through. After my wife ordered her drink, we probably waited 3-4 minutes for our beverage because the guy in front of us ordered like 5 different kind of drinks. No big deal though. When we pulled up to the window for our drink, the barista said our drink was on the house and apologized for the long wait ( which I didn't really think was long at all ). We both thought that was really cool and it solidified both myself and wife as loyal customers.
Posted by: UPod | May 3, 2008 5:29:13 AM
"Welcoming."
"Third Place."
"Premiere purveyors of the ... best coffees in the world."
I think this is what Starbucks needs to focus on to be positioned for the long run.
I went to McDonalds to try their lattes with a free coupon (from "unsnobbycoffee.com.") I'm about to make a more complete 'blog entry on the subject, but, as I was sitting on that cold, hard plastic bench drinking a moderate-to-okay latte, I noticed a sign:
"NO LOITERING. CUSTOMERS MAY REMAIN IN LOBBY ONLY WHILE CONSUMING FOOD. MAXIMUM STAY 30 MINUTES."
Posted by: Argentius | May 3, 2008 8:51:47 AM
just wondering? does anyone know which starbucks is the busiest? i heard the university village in seattle is? i love that store, whenever i visit seattle i end up there. it's great for people watching, talk about the THIRD PLACE, that store is it for me!!!
Posted by: smokey | May 3, 2008 10:20:14 AM
Starbucks decided to become into direct competition with McDonald's when they decided to put their expansion plans on steroids and over-brand the concept. It's the law of retail----grow or die. Peet's chose the alternative route, stable, slow growth. It's a trade-off: grow fast and enjoy fast (temporary) profits, or grow slowly and risk other competitors muscling in. Unfortunately for SBUX, they chose to grow excessively fast AND McDonald's is muscling in competition for the marginal consumer that SBUX now needs BECAUSE they chose to grow so fast, which requires them to go lower and lower socio-economically for the additional consumers required for additional revenue growth. Add in a recession, and this is a toxic spiral.
A major difference with SBUX too is they finance the growth internally, which increases their exposure to bad locations. With MCD, a bad location is financed by someone else, with SBUX they are holding their own bag!
Posted by: Andy | May 3, 2008 10:49:32 AM
Upod, thanks for sharing your story, we appreciate hearing the good news- i hate the saying "no news is good news" so this helps to validate that we are going above and beyond for customers.
Posted by: P.R.I.D.E. | May 3, 2008 10:51:46 AM
CALI ASM and everyone,
Please use your extra urn after noon as a backup for regular drip. People should not have to be waiting for a fresh batch if you have the means to prevent it. Just get in the habit of starting a new batch when the timer on the old one gets down to 5 minutes. In an 8 hour period, you'll only be using 2 extra half-batches of coffee. (assuming you are currently brewing once every half hour)
This is not a lot of extra waste.
Posted by: bobbykins | May 3, 2008 10:58:44 AM
@Smokey:
U-Village (302) has got to be one of the busiest. Long hours, and u-village draws in many many people.
There is a free-standing Starbucks in the middle of an area that has heavy pedestrian traffic next to Westlake Center - that one has to be up there in how busy it is (store 3343). It's open fairly late. But I suspect a combination of changes has helped Starbucks shoot themselves on the foot with that location.
http://img5.ranchoweb.com/images/fashionmel/starbuckswestlakecenter03343-2008jan15-2.jpg
^ Photo of 3343
That store used to have a very cute walk up window with a constant line. You didn't have to go inside! It was such a busy store back then - even busier than now. Starbucks boarded up the walk-up window to use the space to put in a warming oven.
From 1988 to 1995 the few blocks of downtown Seattle - exactly where that Starbucks is - were closed to automobiles, and it was great pedestrian area, connecting shopping with the market. One of many stupid stupid stupid ideas that Seattle has done was to re-open Pine street in 1995. At least for sure, in the early 90s, that was the hottest, busiest Starbucks ever (well it was a Seattle Best and then became a Starbucks very early 90s). That store has such a history!
I love Starbucks history and I've thought that Starbucks should put out a history book.
http://mystarbucksidea.force.com/ideas/viewIdea.apexp?id=087500000004VcK&srPos=2&srKp=087
^ Please vote for my History Book idea! :-D
The original store (store 301 located at 1912 Pike Place) is often PACKED with tourists and lines out the door, especially in the summer.
So to answer your question, at least in Seattle, the busiest Starbucks are the (1) original store, (2) u-village, and for sure at one time, (perhaps no more) (3) the walk-up Starbucks on 4th & Pine at Westlake Center (3343).
Posted by: Melody | May 3, 2008 11:11:50 AM
"in my area at least - just north of the border from you - this is done at least once a month automatically. mats etc are pressure washed, as are the patio, windows/walls/ceilings higher than 10 feet, etc. i would assume that it's the same (or very similar) there. it does get done, you just don't see it because it takes all of five minutes to become messy again :)"
This is NOT mandatory in Nebraska at least... we had a "cleaning party" a couple week ago after close until 3 in the morning or so. It was on a volunteer basis and our SM bought pizza and snacks. I couldn't go because I'm a minor... sad.
I wish this happened every month... but alas...
Posted by: BaristaB | May 3, 2008 12:24:38 PM
Personally, I think the whole 30-minute thing is a marketing gimmick. Never had a problem with one-hour hold time and the difference in taste was, and is, negligible. In a busy store with one DTO and one DTR, a front register person and a SS/floater, it can become busy enough that there is no time to look at the timers and the first indication the thirty minutes is up is the sound of the beep!
Grinding the coffee fresh twice daily, or more if necessary, should be sufficient and the hour hold time isn't excessive. My feeling is there were stores that were exceeding the hour, as I've been in a few and seen the flashing red lights on the urns indicating the hour limit had been exceeded. Perhaps the thinking is by setting a 30-minute hold time someone will make a fresh pot before an hour is up. I have no proof of this, it's just a feeling the truth lies somewhere in that gray area!
Posted by: Jeff | May 3, 2008 2:06:54 PM
Do a taste test Jeff - its different.
Posted by: Horace H. Pohtear | May 3, 2008 2:49:35 PM
Perhaps the thinking is by setting a 30-minute hold time someone will make a fresh pot before an hour is up. I have no proof of this, it's just a feeling the truth lies somewhere in that gray area!
Posted by: Jeff | May 3, 2008 2:06:54 PM
I do agree on that.
There were several times (at least in my market, don't know about the US) where hold times were cut, this isn't the first time. And more than once, one could get the impression that it was done to achieve that people keep up with the original hold time in the first place. I'm sure pretty much coffee was still sold after more than one hour hold - and that's when it develops a bad taste.
Posted by: Kitty | May 3, 2008 3:33:46 PM
hey, does anyone have any tips on how to keep the filters standing when brewing quarter batches??? grinds in coffee = yucky.
sometimes, pulling the edge out helps a bit, but not always!
Posted by: dmanagerLA | May 3, 2008 4:18:08 PM
We received an update recommending that we put the filter in upside down. I think it has helped.
Posted by: TiredASM | May 3, 2008 4:41:56 PM
We did the tasting fresh against 30 min against 60 min. The result was, the 30 min tasted the worst.
After a while we figured out why, the fresh and the 60 min were brewed in a freshly cleaned (urnex) urn, the 30 min only in a rinsed one (all dark inside) which should have been urnexed the night before but wasn't.
So we took from this tasting that cleaning the urns properly is way more important than the hold time. Unfortunately, with the 30 min limit we don't even have the time anymore to properly clean them in between brew-cycles.
Posted by: Me | May 3, 2008 6:55:40 PM
I am faced with a district management problem. Bold coffee i.e. the morning pick is supposed to stop after noon. Customers desperatly want the bold all day and our district manager has told us to continue to brew it all day.
That is great for the customers coming to her stores but I can't imagine how awful it must be for store in other districts when the customers gives them the line "well, the other starbucks always has bold all day long..."
What are y'alls' thoughts on this situation?
Posted by: Kristin | May 3, 2008 8:14:51 PM
Today, I saw one of the closed stores, at Tropicana & Hualapai in Las Vegas, NV. The signs were removed, and the windows were papered over. It wasn't the most convenient store for me--it was three miles away and past two other stores--but it was next to a bakery that I liked and it opened up to a pleasant covered picnic area instead of a parking lot. I'm sorry to see it go.
Posted by: Adam | May 3, 2008 8:17:05 PM
To solve the "we're too busy to look at the timers and run into 30+ minute hold times", we set our timers for 25 mins. We move the "timed out" coffee to the side warming stations, put the empty servers (or empty them now) into place and brew. Your moved servers are still less than 30 mins old, and when your new batch is done, you can dump the old batches and voila, fresh coffee all the time. Sometimes when we're slower, we move the fresh batches over and get the empty servers into place with filters in the baskets.
Posted by: musicmama | May 3, 2008 10:29:03 PM
question about pastries: should all pastry's have the plastic lids or is it okay to cover them in saran wrap when closing? i couldn't find anything about it. thanks for the help
Posted by: elaine | May 3, 2008 10:59:37 PM
What Elaine is trying to say is that since Starbucks is too cheap, it keeps pastries for multiple days at a time, sometimes up to two week for certain items.
It doesn't really matter what they are "covered" with if you're gonna be keeping them until they sell out.
Posted by: Concerned | May 4, 2008 2:14:44 AM
I think that Starbucks is being far too transparent with its problems and these transformation letters promising to improve.
If I were running Starbucks I would stop this whole "Mea culpa, we'll do anything to win you back" marketing they have. It makes them look weak and desperate and unsure of themselves. They are hurting their brand by explaining themselves so much.
Apple has a good model (and a good history to observe of how to come back from the brink of death).
During Apple's darkest hours, they came out with the very non-apologetic Think Different campaign.
Posted by: Marcus | May 4, 2008 5:41:49 AM
whats the point of the mint chocolate syrup? there's already mocha + peppermint???
Posted by: mint coco | May 4, 2008 7:11:12 AM
How long does it take your mgr to do next week's schedule?
Mine took 3hrs. (He stayed past his time just to do the sched. he left at 8pm instead of 5pm.)
WTF?
Posted by: sched | May 4, 2008 7:14:36 AM
LOL - It seems just wrong to put mint and chocolate together as one syrup. Just wrong. It's kind of like that peanut butter and jelly are perfect together but not in the same jar! ;)
Does anyone know a clear demographic profile of the Starbucks "core customer" - I've seen online the quote that he or she is in her 30s or 40s and has a household income greater than $75,000 but I think that might be a dated statistic and I'm curious if anyone has seen an updated snapshot of the core customer.
Posted by: Melody | May 4, 2008 7:17:40 AM
I was looking for information on "core customer" and saw this strange tidbit:
>>>>About 300 units, however, have an expanded lunch menu of prepared sandwiches. A step up are the two full-service Cafe Starbucks operations in Seattle, with offerings ranging from two eggs with potatoes, bacon and apple link sausage (for $4.95) in the mornings to chicken Caesar salad ($5.25) and a grilled Rueben sandwich ($5.95) through the day.<<<<
http://www.rimag.com/archives/2000/07a/exclusive-starbucks.asp
^ It's an old article.
Which 2 Starbucks locations? One of them has to be Madison Park but I don't think it offers anything like that anymore (though now it has a Clover), but what would the other one be?
Posted by: Melody | May 4, 2008 7:21:42 AM
are there any Clover machines in the Chicago area?
Posted by: Sarah | May 4, 2008 7:39:25 AM
The Intelligentsia stores on Randolph/Michigan and Jackson have Clover machines.
Posted by: STARBUCKS GOSSIP webmaster | May 4, 2008 7:49:50 AM
"we had a "cleaning party" a couple week ago after close until 3 in the morning or so. It was on a volunteer basis and our SM bought pizza and snacks. I couldn't go because I'm a minor... sad."
BaristaB, do you mean to say that partners in your store came and cleaned OFF the clock, or were partners given the chance to "VOLUNTEER" to be scheduled for your deep clean?
Posted by: Mortified | May 4, 2008 8:52:59 AM
We brew morning pick all day, because it's what customers want. I really don't understand why it would be a problem to do that. Sure, we may end up throwing away some more coffee than otherwise, but I can't tell you how many customers are happy to still have a choice at that time without having to wait for a french press. We have gotten positive reviews from customers about the new coffee, but still have many who prefer a bolder pick.
Posted by: Bee | May 4, 2008 9:08:50 AM
Kristen,
honestly, I think your DM is doing the right thing. The only concern is whether or not we have enough of a coffee supply to maintain this system, and that is why we haven't done this company wide, to the best of my knowledge.
In my store, we keep it up til' noon, then start bold again around 3-6pm, because we have had so many requests for it.
The other stores will adapt.
What state are you from?
Posted by: dmanagerLA | May 4, 2008 9:10:52 AM
What's the schedule for upgrading/replacing the Verismo machines in the DC area?
Will all stores now get the Cloverfield instead of the Verismo 901 model?
Posted by: Cloverfield? | May 4, 2008 9:12:01 AM
sched-
3 hours isn't bad for putting out a schedule.
I have been using this system for MANY, MANY, MANY years, and it takes me 1 and 1/2 hours on a really good day, and 2-3 hours on a not so good day, and 4+ on a really bad day.
Fortunately, the really bad schedule days are rare!
I too have said WTF many times!
Posted by: dmanagerLA | May 4, 2008 9:16:00 AM
What are we -- three or four weeks into the Starbucks card benefits, including free refills with registered cards? And yet, I'm still being charged for refills after telling baristas I have a registered card. It happened again this morning in Winnetka. Jeezus.
Posted by: STARBUCKS GOSSIP WEBMASTER | May 4, 2008 9:31:16 AM
What is a "Cloverfield" ? If you're talking about the "Clover" coffee brewer, it appears, at least at this point, those will be very thinly available at Starbucks stores. There are like 7000 stores, and only 80 Starbucks will have Clovers by the end of this year. That is about 1% of all Starbucks will get a Clover.
The "Mastrena" is the replacement for the Verismo.
Take a look at the photo gallery from this link:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/355608_sbuxmeeting20.html
^ Pic #6 from the Shareholders Meeting features the Mastrena.
Starbucks has said that by the year 2010, 75 % of all Starbucks will have a Mastrena. 30% of all Starbucks will have a Mastrena by the end of this calendar year: That is like 2100 Starbucks stores.
I think this is a direct link to a photo of the Mastrena:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20080319/621starbucks_15585_toast.jpg
^ Howard touts the Mastrena as being a shorter machine so improving the visual connection between barista and customer, though, if you look, it's not that much shorter, it's just that Howard is a tall guy.
It does make a better shot! It's still an automatic machine though. It is a step in the right direction imho.
Posted by: Melody | May 4, 2008 10:25:58 AM
Like I said, our store in Williamsburg has been so crowded that I've been going as a treat in the afternoon.
I just went now around 1 PM and there were almost no pastries left. So I decided to get an espresso brownie.
While waiting for my iced latte, I took a bite, and it was just bad. It had no discernible flavor. It was dry and obviously very old. My dad tried it and said the same thing, and since we do go every day, and these small pastries aren't cheap I decided to return it.
So I stood at the counter for a while, and then got really embarrassed because another customer came up behind me. My sister left because she thinks it's bad form to ever return anything.
I was surprised, because they are normally so nice, at how brusk they were. I tried to whisper that the brownie wasn't as good as I was used to, and that I hate to do this, but I'd like to return it.
She said, "OK so what do you want?"
Well! As all this was going on another woman was pointing out that there was a fly in the pastry case (there have been flies in the pastry case for the last week or so). So, the other woman working took out a tray of pastries to kill the fly and then sprayed something in there.
When I see flies, I generally overlook them. Yes, I am OCD, but it doesn't seem too abnormal to not want a pastry from where a fly has just been killed and some sort of cleaner was just sprayed.
So I pointed to some prepackaged black and white cookies, and said could I exchange it for these?
She said it has to be something from the pastry case.
I said, but they just killed a fly.... (I was trying to be nice and whisper to not gross out the customer behind me)
So she said they could give me the refund and then charge me for the difference for this prepackaged black and white cookie (apparently it was more expensive.)
I just said don't worry about it, I'll just take the refund. The bad thing is, I feel bad about this, and they probably feel bad about it. It's just not a good situation, and makes it hard to enjoy the latte.
I should say they are generally VERY nice and great with customer service in this store.
Posted by: Marcus | May 4, 2008 10:46:04 AM
wow Marcus. That is shocking. I'd freak out if I saw anything at all being sprayed into the pastry case. Wow.
Posted by: Melody | May 4, 2008 10:56:22 AM
concerned,
we do not keep pastries out for two weeks, more like two days. that said, i think some of the pastries (i.e. marble loaf) should have a one day out allotment. i don't think the plastic lids are helpful in keeping pastries fresh. i'm curious to see if anyone answers elaine's question. plastic wrap? i vote yea.
Posted by: iz | May 4, 2008 11:03:01 AM
The Chocolate Mint syrup is disgusting. Bad bad aftertaste. I MUCH prefer Mocha + Peppermint. Now that's delicious.
Posted by: Kittymoose | May 4, 2008 11:06:55 AM
dmanagerLA,
doesnt the computer spit out a schedule for you automatically, based on what the baristas put down as available?
and why cant you just use the same schedule as last week, and just make minor adjustments for people taking off?
Posted by: sched | May 4, 2008 12:31:19 PM
IZ, you keep Marble Loaf Cakes in for two days? That's interesting, because in my market, we do throw them out after one day. I thought it would be the same everywhere, since it's the same product.
Posted by: Kitty | May 4, 2008 12:36:50 PM
umm, our shelf life for marble loaf is 4 days!
Posted by: stale | May 4, 2008 1:11:30 PM
umm, our shelf life for marble loaf is 4 days!
Posted by: stale | May 4, 2008 1:11:30 PM
Seriously? I mean, officially?
Posted by: Kitty | May 4, 2008 1:15:20 PM
Marcus, sorry you had a bad experience. It is DEFINITELY against Starbucks cleaning-code to spray stuff directly into the pastry case (or ice bucket or whatever); the correct way is to spray it onto a towel and then use the towel.
I hope you don't blame the whole company for one store's mistakes!
Posted by: MusicGal | May 4, 2008 1:17:34 PM
Sched:
Each time we make a schedule we have to select new week. We can't open the old one and adjust it and put that one out. There are variable that go into making the schedule.
First we can't reuse the old one, we would have no information for next week. Our DM's get our numbers from our schedule on a report on a weekly basis. (does this make sense?)
Our schedule forecasts are normally based on a mix of what happened last year on this week and the trends from the last three to six weeks. I'm at a new store so my ALS is using numbers based off the last few weeks and numbers of 1st year new stores in my area.
We also have to input any requests offs, meetings, non coverage.
The ALS does automatically spit out a schedule based on inputed information but it also schedules clopens, no pre- closers, no 30 min lunches (the ALS is based on california break law, our state law is a 30 min lunch for a 6 hr shift) and on rare occasions no shift opener and sometimes gives me only 32 hrs a week, and yes I have scrubbed the system when this does happen but all the settings are correct maybe someone can help me out with that?
DManagerLA is right sometimes it takes me an hour and half other times 3 hrs. Luckily it only took me 2.5 hrs last week to put two schedules out.
Posted by: Aralia | May 4, 2008 1:17:40 PM
Me:
We did the tasting fresh against 30 min against 60 min. The result was, the 30 min tasted the worst.
After a while we figured out why, the fresh and the 60 min were brewed in a freshly cleaned (urnex) urn, the 30 min only in a rinsed one (all dark inside) which should have been urnexed the night before but wasn't.
So we took from this tasting that cleaning the urns properly is way more important than the hold time.
All very good points IMO. And I agree, I'd prefer hour-old coffee from a clean urn, over fresh-brewed coffee in a dirty urn. (i.e. only if it's BOLD ;)) And in the same way, the hour-old coffee in my squeaky clean thermos is pretty darn good too. I've had some awful cups of sbux coffee that I now suspect were brewed in a very filthy urn.
Unfortunately, with the 30 min limit we don't even have the time anymore to properly clean them in between brew-cycles.
And that seems to say that the new 30 min limit doesn't actually result in a better cup for the customer because it just cancels itself out. If we conclude that during a 12-hour period the urn brews about 22 batches of coffee without being cleaned, that 22th batch is probably going to taste less than wonderful. Even if it's fresh roasted, fresh-ground, fresh-scooped, and fresh-brewed it still needs a clean urn to make it taste like a fresh cup.
Posted by: StLouieDrip | May 4, 2008 1:21:37 PM
Two weeks for pastries?!!! Whoa! That doesn't even seem possible. At my store, we have found those plastic lids are only good for making pastries dry out faster. Some pastries can go a three, maybe four, days, but most only last two to three days.
Posted by: Name | May 4, 2008 1:26:26 PM
Pastries don't last two weeks. The longest a pastry will be in the case is three days, and I think both you and I can agree that a three-day-old brownie's just as good as a one-day-old brownie.
But in even better news, latest Action Item:
Sugar-Free Mocha to be Discontinued!!!
Posted by: Me | May 4, 2008 1:53:53 PM
"we had a "cleaning party" a couple week ago after close until 3 in the morning or so. It was on a volunteer basis and our SM bought pizza and snacks. I couldn't go because I'm a minor... sad."
BaristaB, do you mean to say that partners in your store came and cleaned OFF the clock, or were partners given the chance to "VOLUNTEER" to be scheduled for your deep clean?
Mortified, oh god no! they did NOT do this out of the kindness of their hearts--it was just like Christmas, without the extra $$$. They volunteered to come in and get PAID to clean. lol, sorry for the confusion.
Posted by: BaristaB | May 4, 2008 2:08:47 PM
Hmm, I guess 22th should be 22nd, OOPS!
And unless pastries are made with preservatives even one day old is too long. Who exactly decides how long pastries should be sold at sbux?
Posted by: StLouieDrip | May 4, 2008 2:14:43 PM
There's a predetermined amount of time for all pastries; however, store managers have the final discretion for how long most pastries stay in the pastry case.
Posted by: Name | May 4, 2008 2:29:28 PM
Musicgal, thanks for the sympathies. Believe me, I don't judge Starbucks, that store, or even that employee. If I were working there and a woman came up to me and told me there was a fly in the case, I wouldn't have been as brave as the young barista to go in and kill the fly and clean it up. The service industry is tough! I used to work at McDonald's, so I have great appreciation for anyone who comes face to face with customers who want something fast, easy, and right.
Even at the independently owned coffee houses in my town, there's a problem with the pastry case being an afterthought. I have literally gotten a nutty blonde at one where I bit into it and it was inedible--hard as rock--like a historic nutty blonde that had sat there for god knows how long.
I think in metropolitan areas, people expect good baked items. I live in the South where I don't even think you could buy real sourdough bread anywhere. People don't have expectations when they grow up on Hostess snack cakes! Which of course is tough when you've tasted good stuff--like croissants baked THAT morning, etc. Wouldn't that be revolutionary? If Starbucks just got the type of frozen croissants Trader Joe's sells and let them proof over night to bake fresh in the morning! Mmmmmmm......
Posted by: Marcus | May 4, 2008 3:09:03 PM
"There's a predetermined amount of time for all pastries; however, store managers have the final discretion for how long most pastries stay in the pastry case."
That's half true. SMs have the power to use a shorter shelf-life on pastries, but not extend them.
An example would be when I told my regional food specialist that it was ridiculous to have a 2 day life on loaves because they dry out so fast. She said I had to do what's best for my store's customers and make an executive decision then. So what we decided (along with feedback from customers) is to use a 1 day life on opened loaves and 2 day on unopened loaves.
Posted by: Vicki Verona | May 4, 2008 3:47:46 PM
Our morning pastries have a time limit of open to 2pm... after that they are to be tossed... that includes bagels, danishes, donuts, muffins, scones, ect... Then the majority of our pastries only have a three day limit, which means the day recieved, the next day, and by 2pm on the third day... in very rare cases, do we even make it past the first day... most times in my store we are opening a new package of afternoon pastries two to three times durring the closing shift (which Im most familiar with) we still day dot it for the third day, but like I said, we rarely ever make it that far, but when closing, we set up the morning shift for their day, by setting up the pastry case for them. We cover everything that we can with the plastic covers, but the cookies usually get saran wrapped, just because we don't have enough covers to go around, and also because the cookies only have a "life" of two days... that is the deal with our pastries in the Houston market at least...
Posted by: Bgirl | May 4, 2008 3:52:56 PM
"What are we -- three or four weeks into the Starbucks card benefits, including free refills with registered cards? And yet, I'm still being charged for refills after telling baristas I have a registered card. It happened again this morning in Winnetka. Jeezus."
I let things slide for the most part in the first couple weeks, but it's now been nearly a month since the benefits were introduced and I'm getting ticked off. Yesterday morning, I hit a nearby store and ordered a latte with syrup and milk modifiers. I handed the partner my card and told him it was registered. He looked slightly puzzled, so I said again that it was a registered card, please use the card benefits key. "Oh, um, okay. Here's your receipt." Full charge. I pointed out that no, it's a registered card, I'm supposed to not be charged for the syrup and milk modifiers. He thought "registered card benefit" meant I could see my card balance on the receipt. I explained again about the new card benefit, and handed him the handy printed card available at the register that explained the benefit. Finally he called a manager over, who explained the benefit to him and showed him how to enter it correctly on the POS.
Later that day, I went back to that same Starbucks and ordered the same drink. And I had to go through the same ordeal again just to get my damn $0.70 discount.
I am really, really fed up with having to BEG for my card benefit. Either the partners forget to do the card benefits rigamarole or, like both of the ones I encountered yesterday, they don't even know that it exists. (one was clearly a recent hire, but the other I'd seen many times over the last year) I tell them it's a registered card, I ask them to please use the card benefits button, and still I get nothing but blank stares in return most of the time. If the store is slammed, I'll let it go, but otherwise I'm going to insist on getting my flippin' benefit from now on. With the number of syrup-enhanced soy lattes I buy, it equates to one free tall latte each week.
SF Mocha is going away? Good riddance. I gave it three chances, and it was equally chemical and un-chocolatey each time.
Posted by: R2Z | May 4, 2008 3:58:56 PM
Phew, if the rumors are true (SF Mocha is going away!)then I'l have made it through it's entire existence without having to taste it! I've smelled it, and believe me, it was disgusting enough without subjecting my taste buds to that travesty.
Posted by: MusicGal | May 4, 2008 4:16:07 PM
The entire registered starbucks card program is ridiculous to begin with....The concept of rewarding a loyal customer is great but the freebies suck.....it would be much easier if every 10th beverage rang up free with the use of the card or something along those lines and automatically. As a barista having to welcome the customer, ask if the drink is in a for here mug or to go, if they want a pastry, then if the card is registered or not and then explain what registered means if they don't know while annoyed drip coffee drinkers stare at you from behind... there is no time left for any customer interaction at the register by then I might as well be a robot or a self checkout...I feel like the connection piece at the register is being interfered with by the extra questions that are making me feel more like a sales person then a barista creating a 3rd place environment and a meaningful connection with each and individual customer...At this point I almost want to transition to a new career of asking paper or plastic at least it's only one question then I could move on to talking to them person about their weekend plans or their kids!
Posted by: 20 Question Barista | May 4, 2008 4:16:10 PM
Yeah, I totally do not understand how people were trained on the card benefit. I know more than the workers at the register and train them on what to do. Where is the disconnect?
Posted by: Justin | May 4, 2008 4:25:14 PM
The entire pastry program will be chaging in the next several months. La Brea bakery will be the main vendor but also featuring Top Pot and Sweet Steet. All pastrys will have a one day shelf life. It has been tested in Los Angeles and will roll out cross country soon. No more multi day pastry.
Posted by: hoit | May 4, 2008 4:25:36 PM
"There's a predetermined amount of time for all pastries; however, store managers have the final discretion for how long most pastries stay in the pastry case."
That's half true. SMs have the power to use a shorter shelf-life on pastries, but not extend them.""
Actually, it's all true. Why throw out a perfectly good, moist cookie/loaf/etc. because it "expired." If it's good, it's good. If it's dry, it's dry. Discretion.
Posted by: Name | May 4, 2008 5:07:08 PM
As far as the registered card, it seems to me like we were all so bombarded with all the PPR hubbub, nobody cared to REALLY train us on the registered card benefits. I only have one regular customer who uses his benefit for his free refills. Another customer kept insisting that her card benefit would make her tall latte cost the same as a solo espresso (she was confused by the milk upgrade thing) and then never came back.
It's possible that if you're having problems, then it means that not a lot of people in that particular store are using their registered card benefit. I'd try to see if you could borrow the manager for a few minutes to talk it over with her. Not many newer partners in my store are too good with it, but we are a mall store on Maui, so all we basically do is Frappuccinos.
Posted by: Kate | May 4, 2008 5:35:18 PM
wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG!!!
Jesus guys, do you all even HAVE store managers?!?!
The longest any pastry is good for is 2 days....That's the coffee cakes, loaves, bars...
I cant believe people are still keeping stuff out for like 4 days. Thats DISGUSTING #1 and hello, upsell pastries much?
Some of your stores are sick dude.
Posted by: wholahay | May 4, 2008 6:10:14 PM
And Mr/Ms "Name" up there....NO NO NO
Just because its still moist doesnt mean you should sell it. Stuff sitting at room temp grows BACTERIA!!!! OOOO, google it sometime
Starbucks wouldnt make STANDARDS if they wanted us to make judgement calls on food safety...jesus....
Posted by: wholahay | May 4, 2008 6:13:04 PM
I am a store manager and I have made the decision that absolutely nothing stays out more than one day. If it is un-opened I will honor the two day date, but once it is in the case .. one day is all it gets. I never ever want to serve a bad/dry pastry to a customer. It is a horrible business practice.
Posted by: k | May 4, 2008 7:06:16 PM
umm.. In NY Metro some pastries have shelf lives of four days. I guess different areas have different pastries and such, but our Banana Nut Loaf, Marble Loaf, and Lemon Loaf all have four day lives.
And also I checked my action items today. It didn't say anything about SF Mocha.
Posted by: seven | May 4, 2008 7:17:43 PM
Don't post a judgment about the mint chocolate syrup unless you're trying it in a frappuccino. It won't be going into hot drinks or iced mochas. Just frappuccinos. After SF Mocha and Honey, MC is actually GOOD if you try it in what it was made for. I hope we've turned a corner w/ Fontana... next up, Valencia? :)
Posted by: Valencia | May 4, 2008 7:23:32 PM
Wow. Looks like I struck a nerve in a few people. By the way, what's upselling? Is that when I ask them if they want an extra shot? Or is that when I ask them if they want Cinn Swirl coffee cake to go along with their Cinn Dolce coffee? Or is that when I ask them if they need coffee beans for the work week?
Really, the problem with my store is that it is fairly new and has yet to break $2000 in sales in one day. Most of the time it still averages around $1000. So, it can be quite difficult to go through even one loaf of anything in a few days.
Posted by: Name | May 4, 2008 8:59:52 PM
About the pastries, you guys are truly scaring me. [shudder] This Midwestern city lags behind in most other things, but with pastries we seem to lead the way. The award-winning Panera Bread was founded here (originally The St. Louis Bread Company). And the reason the "one day" rule will apply when sbux starts using La Brea Bakery is because one day is the absolute standard for any fresh-baked goods. I mean, not even our worst local bakeries will sell yesterday's goods. I'm sure the contract with La Brea exactly stipulates "one day," because there's no way a premiere bakery would agree to their fare being sold the next day.
And just because you can't taste the difference, it doesn't mean your customers can't taste it. I'm seriously stunned. Yuck. Eww.
Posted by: StLouieDrip | May 4, 2008 10:06:51 PM
Back to the most *profitable* store: It has got to be the original store (of course I could be crazy wrong ...)
I was in there today and the tourists come in and start grabbing these mugs which say on the bottom "purchased at the first Starbucks" (or something like that) and there are even special teddy bearistas that say on them that you got them from the first store.
People grab bags and bags of Pike Place Special Reserve (NOT the same thing as PPR) because it can only be purchased at the first store.
Imagine you're a typical store open from 6 am to 9:30, 7 days a week, and literally like every other customer is buying at least one mug. How profitable would that store be?
Posted by: Melody | May 4, 2008 10:12:01 PM
sched,
well, it does "spit out a schedule", but that schedule is not always acceptable. For example, it will schedule 2 people when you know you need 3 or 3 people, when you know you can use two.
The schedule also doesn't know the fine points of "barista management". For example, I will have 2 baristas that work well apart, but together, they get nothing done because they have too much fun together... etc. etc.
As far as repeating prior schedules, yep, we have that capability as well, (to use the info from a prior week) but I have tons of requests each week from partners, not to mention the expectations from leadership that the store managers change their schedules, as well as meetings, classes , etc.
And then of course things like ramping up sales, seasonal changes, etc.
There are many factors that go into it.
The possibilities for change are endless...
I dream of a 30 minute schedule!
Posted by: dmanagerLA | May 4, 2008 10:23:51 PM
oh for the days of loaves gone by noon, all ams gone by two and actual tasty pm pastries that hadn't been "reformulated" beyond recognition--back when the toffee almond bars were still heath bars and the espresso brownies were moist. strawberry and cream scone anyone?
Posted by: itsnotamermaid | May 4, 2008 10:24:23 PM
vicki verona... how are you???
glad to see you here tonight!
Posted by: dmanagerLA | May 4, 2008 10:29:16 PM
21 days:
Brownie bites
Ouch.
You bafoons!
Posted by: Bunifah Latifah Halifa Jackson | May 5, 2008 1:35:16 AM
Melody... Pike Place isn't the most profitable store. Not even close. The margin on mugs isn't nearly what you'd think and that store closes somewhat early compared to like UV.
They used to recognize the top 5 highest profit % and cont. contrib stores at the leadership conferences. It sounds like they'll be doing that again in October when they have the conference in Vegas.
Posted by: Pat Nerr | May 5, 2008 5:55:14 AM
Pat Nerr,
Thanks for the tidbit. Is the leadership conference in Vegas? I thought I heard gossip (here on this website) that it was happening here in Seattle this fall. Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.
True, Pike Place store has short hours. It *just* went to summer hours, now closing at 9:30. It closed at 7pm most of the Winter.
Posted by: Melody | May 5, 2008 7:42:40 AM
The Westlake location went from SBC to sbux in late 90s or early 2000s, not in the "very early 90s".
does sbux even have a quality dept? How the hell can there be this much variety in store practices?
Just wait until you start stocking fruit (smoothies) in all the stores. One of the locations is gonna end up on Ramseys Kitchen Nightmares. Some of this stuff is really gross.
Posted by: logical | May 5, 2008 9:14:20 AM
"There's a predetermined amount of time for all pastries; however, store managers have the final discretion for how long most pastries stay in the pastry case."
That's half true. SMs have the power to use a shorter shelf-life on pastries, but not extend them.""
Actually, it's all true. Why throw out a perfectly good, moist cookie/loaf/etc. because it "expired." If it's good, it's good. If it's dry, it's dry. Discretion.
Why don't you e-mail your regional food specialist with that thought process and then post his/her response on her for all of us?
At that length, might as well say "Oh since I can't determine a significant difference in the taste profile of a white mocha made with shots left out for more than 10 seconds vs fresh shots, then we're not going to follow the "10 second freshness" rule for espresso shots."
Changing the expiration date in order to ensure FRESHNESS is one thing. But changing the expiration date PAST the date that Quality Assurance has determined through vigorous testing is unethical.
Want to ensure freshness? Learn how to order properly. Manage your pastry order on a daily basis and make adjustments based on your inventory.
Posted by: Vicki Verona | May 5, 2008 9:30:36 AM
vicki verona... how are you???
glad to see you here tonight!
Hi DmanagerLA!!
I'm good. Not sure if you read my post earlier in the thread that I wrote to Darleen. Started my maternity leave last Monday and am enjoying it. Popping in here every now and then, but not really contributing the way I was in the past.
Posted by: Vicki Verona | May 5, 2008 9:32:27 AM
Vicki, congrats on the baby! Is it a boy or girl (or are you going to wait to find out?)
And guys, *please* follow the correct expiration dates for pastries. You want to bring the company down? Fine, sell expired pastries. If you want to keep Starbucks going, try to follow standards! Please!
Posted by: MusicGal | May 5, 2008 11:07:48 AM
I think the 30min brew timer works perfectly for my store, since we are a very busy store. During the peak hours where we get the bulk of drip-coffee customers, I like to brew full-batches every 15mins that way there is a constant flow of coffee that is fresh and ready to serve.
Posted by: JJJ | May 5, 2008 11:59:32 AM
i didnt realize i was causing a pastry debacle. I just wanted to know about the lids. I'm sorry!
Posted by: elaine | May 5, 2008 12:30:25 PM
Musicgal:
We're having a girl. My hubby and I both wanted a girl so we're thrilled. My hubby grew up with only sisters so he feels he'd be a better father to a girl than a boy. Still haven't decided on a name. Maybe Sally Sumatra?
Posted by: Vicki Verona | May 5, 2008 1:03:08 PM
I think there are similarities with the overbuilding of Starbucks with the Gap. But the difference is the price of admission and the natural desire for caffein. I think Starbucks is a bit better shape than the Gap but the stores certainly have lost some of their luster and the appeal is slipping away.
Posted by: javajohn | May 5, 2008 1:36:02 PM
Vicki- Or Kathy Komodo? Yolanda Yukon? ;)
Posted by: MusicGal | May 5, 2008 2:49:45 PM
re: Card Benefits/Free Refills
I agree that there continue to be HUGE AND CONTINUING AND EPIDEMIC problems about training and implementation on the benefits.
A month in, the "growing pains" excuse no longer cuts it. I'm afraid I see a disconnect between corporate policy and front-line reality. It all raises troubling questions about Starbucks ability to turn things around.
In more than 25 visits to various Toronto area stores, I have yet to see any partner get it right. My attempts to get free refills invariably provoke confusion and consternation. At various times, I have been told by various people that:
- I need to pay full price for my refill
- I need to pay fifty cents for my refill
- I need to pay nothing for my refill
- I need to pay fifty cents for my refill, but only if I return my cup
- I need to pay full price less ten cents for my refill, if I present my cup
- My card needs to be swiped again
- My card doesn't need to be swiped again
(and various combinations and permutations of the above -- all wrong, wrong, wrong)
In fairness, i've never actually been charged. It all gets sorted out eventually. But it takes between one and three minutes and I'm made to feel like a deadbeat who is trying to game the system. .
My real issue is that it's not getting any better. There has been zero progress. And I see no prospect of change.
It's difficult to escape the onclusion hat S'bux is a f***ked up company.
Posted by: Torontodude | May 5, 2008 2:53:46 PM
"I agree that there continue to be HUGE AND CONTINUING AND EPIDEMIC problems about training and implementation on the benefits."
I'm with you 100% on this. I have tried at my store to tell our regulars and irregulars about the benefits, make sure they register their cards, explain how much they'd be saving every time, and so on.
Almost every regular who has taken me up on the offer has complained to me that they always get charged the full price, nobody knows how to ring them up properly, and they've all ceased to use Starbucks cards and pretty much think I'm a damn liar.
It's a store management issue though, I feel like the best stores I've worked in are the ones where managers consider their number one primary ultimate goal to keep everybody on the same page about everything that's going on. Unfortunately, my current manager is great at many things, but not that most important one.
Posted by: Shift Super | May 5, 2008 3:39:18 PM
Wholahay wrote
"wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG!!!
Jesus guys, do you all even HAVE store managers?!?!"
They have store managers. It's just that too many of them don't understand professionalism or common sense.
Case in point..I went to a store today on my break. While I was waiting for my drink an assistant manager or supervisor was sitting at the bar reading out loud from job applications that people had filled out. The baristas felt the need to throw in their comments instead of concentrating on finishing the drinks that people were waiting for.
Not only did this take place in front of customers but the store manager was standing right there and said nothing. It was just so unprofessional. Too many of the managers I see here in NJ seem way too chummy with the other employees to the point where there seems to be no fear of being fired. Meanwhile the drinks never seem to get better.
Posted by: adam | May 5, 2008 6:06:57 PM
Hey Pat,
I heard Leadership was in Seattle this year....now Vegas?? BOOOOOOOOO
Vegas blows :-(
Posted by: wholahay | May 5, 2008 7:31:41 PM
So, maybe this was mentioned before, but it is official that SF Mocha will be discontinued by either when your store or regional warehouse runs out or July 15th, whichever comes first. I hope it is replaced with either a much better sugar-free mocha or an entirely new syrup altogether.
Speaking of syrups, what does everyone think about the quality of our syrups? Our SF syrups? Could we do better? Could we do worse? What are your opinions?
Posted by: Posted By: | May 5, 2008 9:10:36 PM
vigorous testing?
some of you believe in leprechauns too eh?
wow.
sheep and shepherd.
Posted by: pepsipurchase | May 6, 2008 5:14:14 AM
What's the deal with raspberry? In our order last week, we received regular raspberry instead of juicy raspberry. I don't remember seeing any alerts or emails about this. Was it just a mistake?
Posted by: waltie | May 6, 2008 7:15:00 AM
Waltie,
I thought it was just our store! Yes, I received regular raspberry as well
Posted by: Name | May 6, 2008 9:23:52 AM
Waltie - There was an alert on it a month or two ago. Juice Raspberry uses real raspberry, and there is a raspberry shortage right now, so as supply fluctuates, we will be switching back and forth between the classic raspberry and the juicy.
Posted by: Reginald P. Doolihan | May 6, 2008 4:04:29 PM
so the busiest stores, what are their numbers like? what are they doing a week?
oh yeah, i was plating some pastries today and was wondering: at 24 hour stores when do they run the close and open store?
Posted by: maxpunx | May 6, 2008 4:48:15 PM
Maxpunx,
The most I've seen a store do is $60,000. It was during holidays for a very high volume DT store.
As far as 24 hour stores, yes they run open/close store. They must do it before 3:30AM if I'm not mistake, otherwise the system blends the two days of sales.
The close store process takes 25-30 minutes, so for that time, the 24 hour stores will use a calculator to give totals, and ask customers for cash. If they do not have cash, they simply comp the beverage.
From my experience at a 24 hour store, its usually not a big deal. You just have to make sure you vary the "close store" time every single night so that customers don't PLAN to come in during close store in order to get a free drink.
Posted by: Name1 | May 6, 2008 4:56:12 PM
about card benefits:
Torontodude, what do you expect from Starbuckspartners, if at my store not even the ASM knows how to ring it properly in. If you tell my ASM the card is registered and what you expect to get covered by the benefits my ASM voids what she rang through and rings it in without the discounted parts. (as in voiding a vanilla latte and ringing in a latte) Sad but true!
In my case the combination of card- AND partner benefits always gives them the rest. More often than not I end up getting my drink entirely for free because they can't handle it. Good for me, bad for Starbucks.
Even if I still think this is a problem the IT-department should take care of, it's not rocket science folks.
Dear fellow Baristas, just check every single Starbucks Card for benefits, if someone orders something that might get a benefit. Doesn't cost a lot of time and provides legendary service. It's a push of a button and a second swipe of the card (even though some claim the second swipe isn't necessary, here in Toronto it doesn't seem to work without it).
Posted by: Me | May 7, 2008 7:23:57 AM
Until Starbucks gets rid of huckster Howard, and until they start using higher grade green coffee, things will not change.
Howard knows nothing about the coffee business...get rid of him and bring in someone who knows what they are doing.
Posted by: Yemen2651 | May 7, 2008 10:58:22 AM
Some old Starbucks cards (from 2004 and earlier) do not even have a code to scratch -- so you don't even know that their card is registered just by looking at the place that one needs to scratch to get the code to register it. So, either look for the scratch or absence thereof. If the place is scratched -- ask them if they indeed registered it.
Posted by: LEGENDARY OR BUST | May 7, 2008 11:48:48 AM
"Schultz basically handed off the thing to a smart, but nuts-and-bolts operations manager who didn't fundamentally "get" this whole coffee thing they're doing." Summed up quite nicely JMW
Posted by: xsbuxdm | May 7, 2008 1:19:24 PM
>>>I think this is just what happens when a company gets too big and doesn't have a strong culture at the top. Schultz basically handed off the thing to a smart, but nuts-and-bolts operations manager who didn't fundamentally "get" this whole coffee thing they're doing. He made lots of tactical decisions but turned the whole brand into a commodity in doing so.<<<
I'm sorry for being a little slow, but who is this referring to? Who did Howard hand Starbucks off to? Jim Donald? Orin Smith?
I have the sense that many of the very highest levels of Starbucks management are not about coffee at all, and are just very well paid men & women with great resumes, but they didn't start out as a barista ... I have no idea if that is true, but it is my gut.
Posted by: Melody | May 7, 2008 1:32:30 PM
Once again, I'm glad I work at Strarbucks!
We call it legendary service.
Others get fired for trying to provide right that at a competitor. Look it up:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/
article/422864
Maybe someone should offer that poor girl a job at Starbucks.
As long as things are like this Starbucks has a good chance to stand out of the crowd and survive.
Today I'm happy to be a Starbucks Barista and not a sales associate at the dead hockey players coffee shop...
Please just make sure theses managers are banned from ever getting hired by Starbucks.
Posted by: Me | May 8, 2008 7:15:03 AM
Hey all, when do the summer drinks (choc mint frapp, etc.) roll out? I thought it was supposed to be this week.
Posted by: Javerich | May 8, 2008 10:41:25 AM
Summer drink roll out on the 13th, with the exception of the blended tea lemonades, which don't start until june 24th
Posted by: Bogerta the Fat Woman | May 8, 2008 11:26:45 AM
Does anyone know if the new blended teas actually use the lemonade or a new "lemonade beverage mix"?
I don't like the texture of it with just the regular lemonade.
Posted by: Me | May 8, 2008 9:48:51 PM
Question:
It's 10 pm, and I just ran to a local Starbucks and bought more beans for home. I grabbed a pound of french roast, and handed the barista the beans and my registered Starbucks card.
I asked her if I could get a free drip with the beans, and handed her my personal tumbler.
She said only if the card was registered:
Is that promo only for registered cards??? I thought I remembered even before having a registered card that if you bought a pound of beans, baristas would gladly give you a drip on the house. (I have a "short" personal tumbler that I always use.)
Also, then she asks me if I wanted to pay for the beans using my Starbucks card. I looked her, and I couldn't help but thinking, that it seemed obvious that that is what I wanted to do. I guess if I hand a baristas a pound of beans and a card at the same time, I don't expect to be asked how I want to pay for them.
Posted by: Melody | May 8, 2008 10:13:59 PM
Melody,
Yes, we did offer free tall brewed coffees long before the registered sbux card incentive.
However, if you have a registered sbux card, you are NOW entitled to a free tall beverage of your choice.
Posted by: Vicki Verona | May 8, 2008 11:09:31 PM
I think your right. We've been McKinsey'd like Enron. Can Global Strategy take all the credit for the good things and benchmark the bad and couch it as an industry trend that dictates a halving of the SBUX stock price, based on reduced store count estimates. Let's see, strategy, hmm forward thinking, analytical, strategic? I would say tactical 100%. Pedigree has its pitfalls. Clean house Howie!
Posted by: Vic Blanco | May 8, 2008 11:48:08 PM
I think your right. We've been McKinsey'd like Enron. Can Global Strategy take all the credit for the good things and benchmark the bad and couch it as an industry trend that dictates a halving of the SBUX stock price, based on reduced store count estimates. Let's see, strategy, hmm forward thinking, analytical, strategic? I would say tactical 100%. Pedigree has its pitfalls. Clean house Howie!
Posted by: Vic Blanco | May 8, 2008 11:48:15 PM
Meldoy, the tall drip promotion was discontinued a long time ago (at least in my district). Anyway, some people still just did it for regular customers.
I think the new promo with the registered card is much better. If you would choose a tall frappuccino (e.g. because you would like one anyway) your beans are getting significantly cheaper.
Still, at my store I bet more than half of the Baristas wouldn't even ask you if your card is registered because they don't know the benefits... :-(
So, try to be happy that you found a Barista who was in the know, trying to connect and start a conversation (even if it was just asking about your card)
Posted by: Me | May 9, 2008 7:23:22 AM
FYI -- if you ask your favorite barista nicely, you can get the mint mocha frappucino this morning...as I did! I LOVE the mint mocha syrup, so much better than peppermint + mocha.
Another FYI -- I received a large bag of espresso roast beans yesterday from SBUX, with a thank you note for the inconvenience due to the Duetto card crash last month, and I hadn't even complained to them about it. Nice!
Posted by: amy | May 9, 2008 7:35:15 AM
We will have a separate lemonade blended base for the blended teas
Posted by: Horky Porkin Pat | May 9, 2008 10:36:54 AM
Me, thanks for the reply! I didn't realize that the new promo is that you can get *any* tall beverage when buy a pound of beans! The weather is finally getting nice in Seattle - I would go for a tall frap. :-)
Amy, I've had a very nice barista make up the chocolate whip, and I've tried it on a doppio con panna. That is awesome! The chocolate whip somehow looks unappealing, but tastes fabulous! I'm very excited about it.
:-)
Posted by: Melody | May 9, 2008 12:06:06 PM
Yes, S'bucks is corporate as hell, greedy, depressingly unvarying in its faux-hip decor (so 80's), etc. etc...
...and I'm grateful. Grateful that now, because of S'bucks there are g*damn coffeehouses all over the place. It used to be that coffeehouses were a phenomenon of smarmy college towns and major cities. Now they're frickin everywhere and that's nothing if not good. Americans didn't know how to hang out they way Europeans do; now they're starting to figure it out.
I love my baristas. They take care of me and bring me coffee. Mmmmm
Posted by: Hwy 17 South | May 17, 2008 9:45:39 AM