Starbucks, union disagree over whether Minneapolis baristas walked off the job over security concerns

Will someone who works at the Franklin/Nicollet store in Minneapolis set the record straight, please? (To those who asked why I removed this story yesterday: I did it because first version was incorrect, as the paper acknowledges.) || UPDATE: A Starbucks spokeswoman e-mails: "There was not a vote for unionization and there was not a walk-out. I confirmed both of these facts with the store manager." || (Twin Cities Business Journal)

Comments

[Al]

I used to live a block from there, though I moved to Chicago in 2006. I liked that neighborhood (and often went to the Acadia coffee shop across the street) but that Starbucks is/was right next to a liquor store, and that is a bit of a rough corner. It doesn't surprise me to hear of security concerns. I hope Starbucks doesn't just close this store. It's a positive thing to have on this corner, and the neighborhood is (slowly) getting better.

[Zipy]

I love how the company posted a 97% quarter loss and these people are demanding pay increase.

Yeah. Thats how the real world work.

[Venti Urnex Latte]

There was an armed robbery two or three months ago at the store on 98th and Broadway in NYC at the opening hour. I read about it in the police blotter but there were few details.

I'm sure nobody is surprised that Starbucks and the union disagree on the facts!

[jay]

check your brain at the door...join a union. it blows my mind that in the economic state we are in we have a small group on ingrates who are "demanding" higher pay. you work retail. the pay is competitive with any other retail store...you also get benefits and stock etc...are you people stupid? i get 50 to 100 more applications a month at my store with people looking to find another job. these people are working 2-3 jobs on top of starbucks. why? our economy is in the tank and they are being pro-active. it's called a work ethic...and i'm tired of hearing about these ingrates in minneapolis, walking out on the job. spend more time working hard and less time "organizing" and plotting your next photo-op. entry level positions usually pay minimum wage...and when you work your way up you make more. i started as a barista...made a little over minimum wage. worked hard and was promoted to shift. made a little more money. worked harder and made asm. made more money and was on a salary. worked harder and became a store manager. now i make more money and feel a sense of accomplishment. i love my job but i also want to try and make more money. work ethic.
i don't need a union...in fact i'll never sign up for a union. i represent myself and my work. regardless of what your union reps have told you, you DO NOT DESERVE anything in this life. you sense of entitlement is disgusting and offensive.

[jay]

i'm sure that the union doesn't exaggerate or spin stories to be more sympathetic to their "cause"...it's only the evil big corporations like starbucks who spin facts...

unions spend more money and time spinning facts with lobbyists and their minions talking to news outlets than they do "protecting" the average, hard working person. remember, the union will represent a lazy, horrible worker the same way they will represent a hard working, honest worker. good to be in the same company isn't it?

[MNBarista]

I agree, unions had their time and place. However, with all the cutbacks (hours and personnel), store closings, there are zero options for moving up. No more "Third Place", has anyone told the customer yet? They still seem to demand what SBUX used to market, but no longer equip us "partners" to provide.

[jay]

i disagree that there are "zero" options for moving up. that is just not factual. people are getting promoted all the time...and yes, with cut-backs that number will go down but i believe starbucks provides a means to advance yourself. are some managers poor coaches? of course. are some dm's not developing their teams? yes. but if someone comes in as a barista they have a lot of opportunity to move up. regardless of cutbacks...the opportunity is there.

almost every store i go into i see people training, working on their coffee master program, and in my district they still have shift training classes offered every month. asm classes offered every month. people are getting promoted...maybe not in the numbers they were in the past but they are being promoted.

[Mickey Blue Eyes]

I agree. In an economy heading toward Great Depression II, the company hemorrhaging cash, now is the perfect time to demand higher wages and use union goons to do it. Nevermind that it will further hurt the company, reducing the number of stores and reducing the number of employees due to the higher cost to employ a worker.

If everyone would just STOP WORKING AT SBUX, then the company would be forced to increase pay to attract workers.

Why should SBUX have to have an armed guard. Banks don't have armed guards anymore. Convenience stores don't have armed guards, and they get robbed on a regular basis.

Maybe what SBUX should do is do what they do at some convenience stores: Put up bullet-resistant Plexiglas in front of the counter. I've been to banks where they have a box to transfer large objects (larger than what fill fit in the tray). It's bullet-resistant Plexiglas, the front door can't open if the back door is open, and vice versa. That is how they can get people's orders to them.

If SBUX has to have armed guards on the premises, then every other fast food restaurant will want to have armed guards. Well, except for donuts shops as they always have cops there.

[Stuckatthebucks]

In thirty years the average income for an American has been cut almost a third. Our average income dropped from an inflation adjusted 30 thousand a year to a modern amount of 20 thousand a year. This income drop is because of many factors; including the failure of people to unionize. I see many older people coming into our stores for full time work not just because of the benefits but for the income and I am sure many of you see the same thing. Much of this is because of a faulty broken governmental system that does not support the average person in an effective way. Starbucks takes advantage of the modern condition of workers in our society.
America is not properly diversified in its economy. Our manufacturing is getting killed due to the cheep importation of goods. We are at a race to the bottom in terms of job quality. Starbucks could and most likely will become a MAIN source of income for thousands of Americans. Starbucks and other retail companies are going to have to adapt to being a major source of income for Americans.
Al, I hear this talk about 97% profitability loss last quarter but I don’t feel much sympathy for them. Most of that loss is due to shutting down stores. Many shut down stores were mistakes and should not been opened or not have been shut down. Partners are not contributing to a charity; they are working and getting paid. It is hard to feel sympathy for their loss when I have been working here for five and a half years and I am not even getting paid 9 dollars an hour. We should be working for better pay, better working conditions, openness of management, more checks and balances even in a down time for Starbucks. If we stop using our voice Starbucks will never hear us.

[spence]

The unions came in to help the car builders in the midwest. Well, the employees had unions. Unfortunately, they don't have jobs. Unions killed the car industry in America.
Fellow Partners: We aren't working in a mining cave. The pay stinks and the hours are worse but no one is forcing us to work there. I'm staying. I choose to work here. If you don't want to, don't!

[Stuckatthebucks]

Sorry, was referring to Zipy not Al in that third paragraph.

[Stuckatthebucks]

Unions did not kill the car industry. Unions were one hurtle for the auto industry but they did not kill the industry. Lack of flexibility, imagination, foresight, health care costs, and a old way of thinking killed much of the car industry.If these industries are not there to serve the average American worker than what good are they?

[jay]

stuckathtebucks-

have you stayed a barista for 5 years? if yes, has there been either no opportunity for you to get promoted or have you not wanted to be promoted? i'm not asking this to be sarcastic, but spending 5 years as a barista (which is considered an entry level position) means you will be getting paid a little more than a starting barista based on your reviews. you may have gotten a raise but it is still an entry level position. why should starbucks pay $15 an hour for an entry level position? no one else does because it is not economically possible to stay afloat.

also, you aren't "stuck" at the bucks...you have had 5 years to find another job that pays more. again, i'm not saying this with a mean tone...just matter of fact and i honestly mean no disrespect. there are jobs that pay more than starbucks at an entry level. they may or may not be retail and they may or may not be as flexible as a starbucks job but they are out there. i know people who push paper all day in a cubicle and make more than i do and i manage a store. but, i choose to stay and work hard and push myself to make more money and be able to provide for my way of life.

[Will]

Sure, Unions killed the auto industry. Of course it wasn't making oversized cars, or making unreliable pieces of junk.

[:)]

@ jay's first comment.

I don't know if you even work at Starbucks or have any knowledge of how each individual store works. Working for a place like Starbucks, or at least every store I've been to in Minnesota, it never matters how hard you work. I give my all to this job, and pay raises are periodic, and pathetic at best. The only people who get promoted are either planning on making Starbucks a career, or they are complete tools and think Starbucks is everything their told to believe it is.

Starbucks is a corporation no matter how they try to spin it, and corporations care about profitability, nothing else.

We have recently been forced to poor espresso shots directly into cups (instead of shot glasses) because it save 5 seconds per drink of labor hours.

Let alone my manager. She works so incredibly hard, and somewhat trusts what the company says, but she barely makes a living wage. She can't work overtime, so she will come in off the clock every single week just to complete all of the tasks asked of her.

Lastly, look at the layoffs and store closings. These were done to make stocks go up, and have caused so much stress and disaster to those affected. Now it's only a matter of time till the rest of us get laid off, and pay roll gets cut further.

They are already in the process of firing people who work between 20-30 hours, so they don't have to pay those partner's benefits anymore.

[truth]

You all can blather on about unions and the auto industry and all the rest.

But the simple truth is that by voting to unionize, the store and the staff now become untouchables. The store will now be one of the last to close and the staff are now safe.

SSC wouldn't dare to touch that store now.

That's how it works. This isn't a time for high-mindedness and altruism. People are in a fight for their jobs and their homes and their lives. This is the time to stand up and fight, not just let the mermaid push them around.

Good for them.

And don't tell me all those people who have been laid off over the past 12 months didn't wish they had a union to fight for them.

[deadtiredinla]

Should Starbucks have a security guard. Absolutely, but not for the reasons you may think. I ran a store that had security issues. It was in a neighborhood that had a lot clubs and bars. The only people who came in at night were people who were drunk, and the people who were holding them up. One night a customer threw coffee at a barista. Here is the deal. If you are attacked or hurt at work in anyway, starbucks is held responsible. Period. We had a security guard that cost us 500 hundred a month. I figured out that since we did not have much business at night, closing the store two hours early and firing the guard actually protected my partners and saved money. Onward.

Shut that store down. As an Investor to the company! I am pissed to see this is happening. What the hell. Starbucks already offer good work conditions and health benefit for all of you guys already. If you make Starbucks go under, you will all have to work at Micky D! Good luck and imagine your life there flipping burgers with stinky clothes!

[Melody]

@ Posted by: :) | November 13, 2008 at 01:20 PM

- I saw your comments in your post above about shot glasses. Please vote here:

http://mystarbucksidea.force.com/ideaView?id=0875000000057fwAAA

[Chucktown Barista]

I'm not a member of a union, nor have I even been, but I've had in-depth experience of unions from both sides of the bargaining table. Regardless of how you feel about them, every single benefit that we have as workers in America is in place because a union fought for them. Every. Single. Benefit. Including the weekend and the 40-hour work week.

Are unions still relevant? That I can't answer. But I do know I would feel more secure knowing that the important aspects of my job are agreed to by myself and the company I work for in a binding contract. Remember, it takes two parties to agree to a contract - and contracts are always renegotiable.

It's naive to think that Starbucks will, under a contract, suddenly have to pay double for entry level workers. Or that incompetent workers cannot be fired. Unions do NOT have the financial power behind them to hire top-notch attorneys to represent the workers; but you can be certain Starbucks brings the best and the brightest to the table.

If you're a shareholder worried about the costs of unions - tell Starbucks to stop spending your dividends on union-busting. Corporations waste millions each year to ensure their workplaces are union-free, all to avoid committing their benefits to a contract so they have the maximum leeway to adjust at will.

Yeah, it may give you heartburn to see the company giving its employees decent benefits while you're getting a penny a share, but remember, it's the $170m the company spent on closing stores it never should have opened that's costing you dividends.

Please, please spare me the "if you don't like it, get another job," lecture. I can't even begin to go into what is wrong with that statement in this economy. I love the IDEA of Starbucks: what I DON'T like is being told in training materials that "the partners come first" and that we must always strive to deliver legendary service, etc., and then being asked to work in an understaffed and under-supported environment. The reason partners unionize is because they no longer trust their employer; one reason to no longer trust Starbucks is that the company has abandonned its core values.

As for advancement opportunities? Shift supervisor is as far as anyone I know has been able to go. Our area has no ASMs - market saturation has ensured that no store has the volume to justify one, plus the volume requirement has just been raised. All of the SMs come from chain retail (such as Blockbuster) or chain fast food management backgrounds.

Bah. Nuff said.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Starbucks Security Service sounds like a good idea. They be S Cubed. Baristas could carry firearms in their aprons? But seriously, Starbucks should consult a security firm, like Blackwater, to give each store or at least district a security score. Those that are deemed dangerous should have security guards.

My sister moved from our home state of NC up to rural Washington state for awhile. She got a job as a grocery store bagger and was required to join a union. The only thing they did was take money out of her paycheck.

Unions are good for lazy people. The rest of us can stand on our own to feet.

*two

[Cut out the Heart]

Truth is that with only one store unionized, it is not exempt from being closed so don't buy what truth is selling.

[truth]

Didn't say it was 'exempt' from being closed. But closing it would be a PR nightmare for the company, and could cause a national boycott. Teachers, municipal workers, etc. There's a lot of sbux customers who are sbux customers.

The MN store has effectively insulated themselves from any corporate action.

[MNPLSBaristar]

OMG. So I literally live right down the street from this store. Its not so much that its in a bad neighbourhood its thats its right next to a liquor store. And there are tons of homeless drunks trying to take advantage of our kindness and hospitality. That store mostly caters to east african immigrants and not to sound prejudiced but the men can often be beligerant and rude.

[railguy]

Venti Urnex Latte ....That was the best post I've read on here in months !

[MNPLSBaristar]

Al did you live on the north or south side of 94? THere is such a difference in the neighbourhoods when you cross over from the south to north side. Its all because of that damn franklin liqour store. And that store is on a major bus artery that runs betweeen some not so nice parts of town. But overall mnpls is an AMAZING city and has very low crime. I know a lot of the partners at this store and the SM as well. I'm gonna see whats up.

[railguy]

ooops....I meant Jay's post ... not "Venti Urnex Latte"

[unionbarista]

Congratulations to these workers for standing up for their rights and pushing Starbucks to live up to their principles.

I worked at this store a couple times as a barista. One time I worked there a barista was told to clean up blood that a heroin junkie had splattered all over the bathroom wall!

I know many of the workers there, and hope that Starbucks heeds their request for a security guard so that they can feel safe at work.

It's a shame this company is so mismanaged that it takes an all-volunteer union to point out basic health and safety issues to them.

To the investors- would you rather have union baristas blowing the whistle on unsafe working conditions, or would you rather have the company get sued for neglecting its legal responsibility to create a safe work environment? Do the math.

[Aaron]

I work at that store.

Here is what happened: I did walk off the floor to present our petition. I stopped working out on the floor briefly to give it to our manager. When I did essentially the same thing last week to call our DM about the massive disaster that was free coffee day, she characterized it as walking off the floor. I did basically the same thing Wednesday. Yes, saying I "walked off the floor" is a dramatic way to put it. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, either when it is used against us, or by us.

As far as not being a "true" union... The IWW is the only true union left. It is run democratically from the ground up. Starbucks is confusing "union" with "collective bargaining agency". Not all unions have to do collective bargaining. And the union HAS petitioned Starbucks for collective bargaining rights in a New York store, and Starbucks is fighting that. And here they are flat out lying by saying the union has never petitioned them for collective bargaining rights.

[MNPLSBaristar]

AARON
So are there safety issues that need to be resolved at the store? I mean you're open till 11 and i wouldn't wanna be down by franklin at that hour unless i had to. How did susan take the petition?

I'm sure free coffee day was a total nightmare for you guys especially.

[Lea]

Sad. I love Starbucks, but when I see them spreading these kind of lies in the press about their employees, it makes it harder to be a customer.

I have no doubt that the employees are paid well, but clearly there are other problems here. If Starbucks can't manage the "partners" safety on their own, maybe they'd be better off with a union giving them a hand on how to do that.

In this economy, we're going to need to be working together to support each other if we're getting anywhere. And I just can't justify that cup of Starbucks anymore in this kind of climate.

[Cut out the Heart]

Disagree...no store is insulated. Starbucks is past having to worry about bad PR. I would be surprised if the teachers union or any other union would bat an eye if one store in MN closed. People are too worried about other more important things.

The best thing the location can do to "insulate" itself from any closing possiblity is to drive top line sales and bottom line profit. Clear and simple.

[C to the B]

Long live the Starbucks Workers Union and the Industrial Workers or the World Union! We want what most partners want: Our paychecks, our tips and our breaks/lunches. All three on time and 'paid in full'.

Of course, someone like Jay who has wasted their life climbing the Bucky ladder is against it. He's the one stealing your tips, scheduling you close-then-open shifts, telling you to 'write it in the book' to avoid a 'meal break violation' and writing you up for pulling shots into shot glasses - wait, right into the cup - wait, right into shot glasses... Jay doesn't get it when there's only 2 of you for more than 3 hours in the afternoon and the service suffers. He'll say you have no 'work ethic'.

Join the union to help your store. Make sure you that you have adequate coverage, that you get paid, that your customers are happy and that you are happy.

[Aaron]

MNPLSbaristar, Susan is gone now. She was axed with the round of manager and office firings they did. Caroline is our DM now. I'll just say thus far, she has not dealt with the union in a way we deem satisfactory... I don't want to go into details unless she has the chance to get her word in too.

You should stop in tomorrow around noon. I can't figure out who you are... I think maybe I have an idea. Are you from U of M Starbucks?

And to the webmaster:
I really hate having to go against my manager's word like this, she's been about as helpful as could reasonably be expected without putting her job on the line. But when the petition was presented was about the same situation as another time that she herself characterized as "walking off the floor". What happened was nobody punched out, or left the store, or anything like that, but at a reasonable time when it was slow, focus was shifted away from customers and store upkeep, I got the petition from the back room, and gave it to her. To clarify, we aren't claiming that anyone was "striking", nobody left store premises, the shift away from normal work duties was minimal, but it did occur. Since you've made this thread about the disagreement over whether anyone walked off the floor or not, this post should be highlighted in some way. Also, webmaster, you have my permission to contact me by email.

[Aaron]

Also, the article says that Starbucks has been working with nearby businesses on the issue. I'm fairly certain this is false. They have not to the best of my knowledge contacted any of our neighboring businesses to get a security guard or find any other solution. In an article in the Southwest Journal, starbucks says "a security guard is probably not the solution to the store’s problems". Doesn't sound to me like they've done anything about getting a guard, on their own or with other businesses. Of course before now, it's been hard to know exactly what they're doing because they won't really tell us, other than that "they're discussing it". That's partly why we did the press conference, to force their hand and show that they're just stalling, and have little intention of hiring a security guard, which to the vast majority of those who actually work at the store, or are customers, or are ever nearby, is the only real solution.

[MNPLSBaristar]

I will try to stop by around noon. Shame about susan. She was such a nice person. My old dm was fired too. : ( I highly doubt they have been working w/ local businesses either. Mainly b/c there really aren't any other businesses that i would think would care or cooperate near by beside maybe the stoners at jimmy johns.

[jay]

:) wrote: "I don't know if you even work at Starbucks or have any knowledge of how each individual store works. Working for a place like Starbucks, or at least every store I've been to in Minnesota, it never matters how hard you work. I give my all to this job, and pay raises are periodic, and pathetic at best."

-actually, i do work for starbucks. i have a pretty good grasp as to how stores work. it does matter how hard you work. it also matters how good your availability is. it you go to school or have another job that is limiting your time at starbucks yet there is another barista who works just as hard but has open availability and doesn't have another job it is likely that they will promote the person who doesn't have other commitments. can people make starbucks a career? sure. can they work as a barista for 10 year and be completely content? sure. if you have other commitments and can't give starbucks more of your time, regardless of how hard you work, you don't deserve promotion. you may get one and that is awesome if your manager is willing to work with you (i have a few partners with limited availability that would have been promoted years ago but their limited schedule is tough. i also have a limited availability shift who rocks and losing her would be tragic for the store...so i work around it) your raises are based on YOUR performance reviews. take it up with your manager and make sure you are getting those every 6 months.

:) wrote: "The only people who get promoted are either planning on making Starbucks a career, or they are complete tools and think Starbucks is everything their told to believe it is.""

i would venture to say that if you think starbucks is full of sh_t and you hate corporate america and you are vocal about your opposition to starbucks...chances are you wont get promoted. change can come but it is my opinion that it CANNOT be forced down peoples throats. press releases/unions/walk-outs/sit-ins/entitlement rants...stop complaining and just do your job...which is an easy one, regardless of your location. i used to work in a store that was busy, open really late and full of bums, drug addicts and drunks. went to court 5 times! didn't walk out once. got frustrated but made it through. never allowed myself to feel scared to go to work. tired to make the inside of my store warm and inviting. that's all you can do. for the record, i started as a barista with NO coffee or retail experience. i'm now an SM. i wanted it. i worked for it. i feel like starbucks gave me that opportunity. i feel like that opportunity is there for ANYONE...and if you don't think so i'm sorry but you are mistaken.

[jabanga]

every time this subject comes up it always amazes me how strong the anti-union sentiment is among some. it goes beyond being anti-union to the point of being against the right to consider a union. i went through anti-union training at starbucks and was amazed that the session started with a basic assumption that all of us were in fact anti-union. i am neither pro-union or anti-union, but certainly believe in the right of workers to attempt to unionize without fear of retaliation..

[Melody]

Webmaster-Jim, when are we going to get a new open thread? I'm dying to post about the first-ever Gold Card Holder special event yesterday at the SSC, but the last open thread has over 200 posts in it, and there's no other thread that it fits in. I emailed you!
Melody
melodysV2Vaddress@live.com

[rocker]

what special event i have a gold card and live in new york city we should be having tons of events yet i hear nothing

[Melody]

Rocker - the Gold Card team is working on developing ideas for "events" - I suspect they will range from small (special in store ideas) to large (the coffee tasting event yesterday at the SSC).

I was among a group of Gold Card holder invitees that went to the SSC for a special coffee tasting. It was about a 2 hour fun event - and the first ever. But the Gold Card Team is definitely hinting more is to come.

I want to write about it, but here I am side-tracking this thread!

[portland guy]

dont get me wrong, im not anti-union on principal. I am anti IWW, which is a joke of a union that other unions wont even take seriously.

It's a pseudo-socialist group that doesnt believe in management. The kids in new york that started this nonsense? Bored rich kids who want to "rage against the machine" and cause trouble, because when its all said and done they will be able to run to mommy and daddy's money and talk about the "good work" they did. Talking the dumb dumb dumb, poor inner city kids who work for starbucks in ny to do something stupid is not that complicated.

Oh...well i guess in an obama america it will become more popular.

[Joseph]

Melody:

I love your posts in most cases. I just wish there was a way to add a no vote to the MSI site, because I don't agree at all with the views on the Shot Glass fiasco contained in those posts. I did use your link though to go check out the site and vote, but was sad to see I could only vote yes. Sorry we disagree on this important issue, but thanks so much for getting people on that site and for all you do to get the voices heard! You are awesome Melody!

[Aaron]

Webmaster, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in the work you're doing here. I've come here to comment several times, and you still haven't put my statements in the post to counter those of Starbucks. Biased a bit?

[jabanga]

"Talking the dumb dumb dumb, poor inner city kids who work for starbucks in ny to do something stupid is not that complicated.

Oh...well i guess in an obama america it will become more popular."

um, hello portland guy? what the hell are you trying to say exactly? i find this statement to be extremely offensive. for the person who made it to be calling others dumb is fairly ironic.

[Darleen]

Talking the dumb dumb dumb, poor inner city kids who work for starbucks in ny to do something stupid is not that complicated.

Oh...well i guess in an obama america it will become more popular.

Wow, I don't even know how to respond to this one. Are you serious? Stereotype much?

[jay]

posted by c to the b" -- "Of course, someone like Jay who has wasted their life climbing the Bucky ladder is against it. He's the one stealing your tips, scheduling you close-then-open shifts, telling you to 'write it in the book' to avoid a 'meal break violation' and writing you up for pulling shots into shot glasses - wait, right into the cup - wait, right into shot glasses... Jay doesn't get it when there's only 2 of you for more than 3 hours in the afternoon and the service suffers. He'll say you have no 'work ethic'."

-first, you don't know me.
-second, you don't know where i came from or how i run my store.
-third, you shouldn't make assumptions about how i manage based on my comments here. in fact, nowhere in any of my posts here did i advocate managers taking advantage of baristas.

i don't steal tips. i don't even handle, count or drop tips. i merely schedule a shift to sort them out.

i don't edit the punches of my baristas.

i don't leave my baristas to suffer...in fact i am usually one of the two people "two-parting"...and you know what? you deal with it. regardless of the line or the amount of business you plow through it...with a smile. it's your job. it's my job too...last time i checked my job description it also included everything a barista does during the day. questioning my integrity and making gross generalization about me or SM's in general is juvenile and really does nothing to further your cause.

have i "climbed the ladder"? sure...with integrity, hard work and a desire to do so. no favors. didn't know anyone in the company prior to working for sbux. i wanted to make more money...and i am. i wanted to take on more responsibilities and i have. don't mock me because i have advanced myself on my terms. again, you don't know me...but it really doesn't matter to you. this is a message board and you can say whatever you want, without any recourse. you can come here and demonize management because that's your "m.o". hope that works out for you...

[Melody]

Hi Joseph! You know, it's totally fine if we disagree about shot glasses. Thanks for the kind words anyways. And there IS lots of good argument on boths sides of the courtroom on the shot glasses. All I ask is for civil debate, and then Judge and Jury Schultz will make his ruling. :) :)