OPEN THREAD conversation-starter: Did you stop by Caribou Coffee on Friday afternoon for a free cup of decaf?

Caribou Coffee, the nation's #2 coffee chain, is giving away free cups of coffee starting at noon on Friday. The promotion is, of course, in response to Starbucks' decision to do decaf-on-demand in the afternoons. "Decaf drinkers deserve better!" says Caribou Coffee's Alfredo Martel. "Caribou Coffee is first and foremost a coffeehouse, emphasis on coffee. We strive to give our customers the very best coffee, when, where and how they want it. And if that means a cup of decaf in the afternoon, then we're more than happy to oblige." Discuss this Caribou promotion or anything else Starbucks-related in the Open Thread. || Read "Caribou Coffee Gives Decaf Drinkers a Needed Boost" || Jump to the most recent comments

Comments

[Clarence Ewing]

I will not be partaking of this offer. Coffee is meant to have caffeine in it. Otherwise, what's the point? I might as well have a hot cocoa.

It's my understanding Starbucks will still have decaf for those who want it, they just won't keep pots of it on hand. They know what their customers want, so I doubt they're asking for trouble here.

[Jeff]

One does have to give Caribou this kudo...at least they understand what "getting back to basics" really means. Ever since Howard has returned, it appears as if SBUX has focused on everything other than coffee. Other than the PR stunt of closing for two/three hours and the horrible PPR being debuted, everything this company has done has been in some other area than coffee. In fact, by cutting the bold coffees, getting rid of POPULAR coffees, stopping bolds at noon and now decaf at noon, the focus seems to be AWAY from coffee.

Keep it up, Howard. Onward indeed!

[Hirayuki]

The nearest Caribou is ten miles away, so it's not exactly a "drop by" kind of place for me. Starbucks locations, on the other hand, are generously sprinkled throughout my area, and I know I can always get a French press of whatever coffee I want--even decaf--at any time of the day without having to drive out of my way.

I grew into coffee drinking at college with Caribou; Starbucks hadn't made its way to Ann Arbor yet. I have a soft spot for them, and I still adore their La Minita Peaberry, but I'm not driving ten miles for it.

[Sara]

If there was a Caribou Coffee around here, I'd go.

My sister used to work for Caribou and she hated it. Wished she worked for Starbucks. Caribou coffee is garbage, so is starbucks brewed coffee. I'd much prefer a latte at Starbucks.

[Melody]

I went to the Caribou store locator and discovered that there are no Caribou Coffee houses within 50 miles of Seattle. I couldn't figure out where they're located at all -nothing in Washington, not in Oregon as I could tell.

But the website was inviting, and it looks like a true coffee house. It did make me want to try it out, if I could.

[Anonymous]

Melody, Caribou is'nt far and widespread like Howie's Green Machine but I can tell you that it's been my experience that they do have great coffee, especially espresso drinks. One thing Caribou was smart about was staying small while Starbucks blazed, expanded, and shot itself in the foot.

Caribou, however, does provide franchising offers to owners unlike Starbucks. And last time I was there, they used the semi-auto manuals and not the Auto-types.

One is the turtle, the other a hare. Remember the classic Fable?

Oh, and the Caribou I speak of are located in Ohio that I remember very well. To Hirayuki, 10 miles is nothing and I drive almost 38 miles up north to the biggest city to hang out once or twice a week since I live in the New England area.

[Crema_the_crop]

All corporate-owned Caribou stores use the Franke superautomatic "Evolution 2-step". To be quite honest, for a superautomatic, it's got nothing on the Mastrena™ or Verismo™ 801.

[Crema_the_crop]

Link to the 2-step:

http://www.us.franke-cs.com/dept.aspx?d_id=24100

[Yippee]

Decaf??? What is this thing you call decaf? What would be its point?

[Burned@SBUX]

Are Thet Hiring???

[Karl Kenya]

My store was the only store in maybe a five district area to have a credit for coffee this last month. Every other store took a loss, and in many cases a huge loss. Nobody is sure why, but I can speculate that this was likely quite prevalent across the country, and it raised some red flags about coffee waste. Possibly leading to this decision.

Anyway, since this announcement, we've been brewing decaf until after the evening rush (6-7pm) and it's working out just fine. The way I look at it, Starbucks isn't saying don't brew decaf. They're saying you don't have to if you're not selling it. Each store needs to make that decision on their own as to what time to stop. The same goes for the bold.

I look at these corporate directives as guidance rather than commandments. The goal is to creatively cut costs, and so I'll do that wherever I can. However, it's not waste if it leaves in a customer's hands. If you sell it, brew it.

[Me]

Karl I agree with you. Trouble is, some DMs see these announcements as an extension of the ten commandments rather than a guidance. THIS is what is causing the trouble.

[SBUX Alum Bill]

Kudos to Caribou for responding so quickly! They're getting some free publicity because of this move, so it works for them even if it doesn't appeal to a large number of customers. It's a small gesture, but they're seen as catering to their customers while Starbucks is perceived as retreating from theirs.

[BusyBean]

Some of you still don't get it. Caribou doesn't have to sell a single cup with this on Friday. The damage they have inflicted on the SBUX brand, to have customers doubt SBUX motives and intentions towards customers, that just having that statement will have a much larger impact on SBUX in the near future. The seeds are planted by our competition and, whether intentionally or not, also by the geniuses working at the SSC with their brilliant decisions over the last few months.

[Chasin_Fat_Kids]

My store just started selling decaf americanos to our customers at the brewed decaf price( about a 40 cents diff?) - so far everyone's been happy with that. Beats having to wait for a french press imo and they usually load it down with so much creamer and splenda they can't tell the difference.

[Rocker]

I never seen a Caribou Coffee in new york city guess im out of luck

[Barista Ben]

Oh no. Not free decaf!

I still fail to see the problem. You want decaf, we'll brew it, and 3 minutes later you've got a fresh cup of coffee.

Yesterday when I closed at my store, we brewed one batch of decaf for a person who wanted it. That means for 8 hours we brewed one batch. That means we saved 15 batchs of water and coffee.

Seems like a good idea to me.

[anon]

Wait until McDonald's and Dunkin Donuts jump on this one too. I can see it now: "We serve decaf all day every day with no wait and it's preferred in taste tests..."

[lux]

**** decaf.

[Naptown Barista]

Hirayuki,

"The nearest Caribou is ten miles away, so it's not exactly a "drop by" kind of place for me. Starbucks locations, on the other hand, are generously sprinkled throughout my area"

...after the next round of closings, those generously sprinkled SBUX will probably not be found quite as easily....

Downward

[K-Dog]

Nearly free publicity for Caribou, and they do have a very inviting ambiance. It's a pity their coffee is so under-roasted - give me Starbucks or Peet's any day!

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Death before decaf. Those people who want decaf should just grow some. I'll give them a venti straw so they can suck it up, while they wait for the 4 minutes for a fresh cup of decaf that I had to brew in my clean urn mind you.

[Thought of the Day]

I'm hearing so much noise on here that decaf is just not a big seller... Has that always been the case.... or just since Pike Place took center stage and decaf drinkers don't have a choice at all? I would love to see what the data looks like on this.

[mimi]

McD's may have decaf *brewed* coffee all day, but they do not yet offer decaf lattes or cappuccinos...

[espresso=love]

Question for all the baristas here---what is a steamer? Is it just milk and syrup? I've heard people order a vanilla steamer or a raspberry steamer and it sounds good but I'd like to know what's in it...

[Me]

Most people that order a vanilla steamer mean a vanilla creme without the whipped creme on top. But it is always good to double check on that.

[xxzxcuzxme]

honestly on demand the last time i checked definately means whenever you ask for it, we brew it. maybe if more people drank decaf then it would be on ALL the time like Pika Place, or the bold of the week.

sorry that your decaf will be fresh.
also i guess we should apologize for trying to reduce waste, who do we think we are?

[Dunkin Dough Nut]

The problem for anyone else in the specialty beverage business (not doughnut shop biz) is that no one can
find your stores. Only Starbucks is
every mile or so anywhere you look.
So Caribou got a little publicity; it's
just nice to see another company's name on a press release or in the news now and then.

[Melody]

[quote]honestly on demand the last time i checked definitely means whenever you ask for it, we brew it.[/quote]

I like that attitude, and don't mind waiting. I'm hardly in a rush, and would never want the cheeseburger that's been sitting under a heating lamp, just by way of an analogy. My only problem is baristas who tell you that you should accept something OTHER than what you ordered. I like my french fries deep-fried in oil, and even if your preferred brewing method is baked, I'd still like to be able to get deep-fried fries ….

But on to a new topic which is the real reason I am writing (since we've beat a dead horse with the topic of “brew on demand” ...), I would like to know more about these new value menus that are supposedly coming to Starbucks in March 2009.

There's been gossip about the value menus, and pretty much I think we got confirmation of them during Wednesday's conference call.

So does anyone know, what will the pairings look like? What are the price ranges? (just curious) And will baristas get at least a little extra labor for this, because it definitely will create more work in the store? And last but not least, I worry that this will be a disaster because of Starbucks great customer service: I can see a combo that says "tall drip coffee" AND "oatmeal" for $3.99 (just making that up), but what about the customer who says, "Can’t I get a grande or a venti drip instead?"

[Burned@SBUX]

Come on partners, this is just a company directive. It virtually means nothing at all. Just like pouring espresso shot into the shot glasses, getting back to coffee, the "By Invitation Only" Starbucks card that will print customers name & drink on the POS screen, ect., this practice will change too. The only continuous theme at Starbucks is no leadership. We are truly like a rudderless ship. Great job Caribou Coffee for taking advantage of a bad business decission.

[SbuxBoy]

The move to brewing decaf on demand is brilliant. Every Sbux store I've ever worked in has done nothing but throw out decaf that has expired, all day long. I applaud the effort to stop the waste.

To those who claim that Caribou is now more welcoming or a better coffee house, I say...wrong! How much more customer focus can you get than guaranteeing that every cup of decaf be the freshest possible? It was brewed just for you, and no one else!

[Jeff]

It's nice to read the comments on this page. They seem to reflect some semblance of reality. No, not brewing decaf isn't a big deal (if you're a gas station; however, making a customer wait for coffee AT A COFFEE SHOP IS! It's in the name! When you cease to sell the very product you profess to specialize in and HAVE IT READILY AVAILABLE WHEN THE DOORS ARE OPEN FOR BUSINESS then you have a problem. NOT exclusively at the store level, though, but at the corporate headquarters level for even implementing such a policy.

Here's something for you baristas to do when you have a spare moment (as if). Ask your SM to show you the profit on a pound of coffee. Believe me, it will surprise you. Now, have them show you the profit on tall, grande and venti cups of coffee - not espresso drinks - just plain coffee. Again, you will be surprised. Bottom line, if you sell approximately 8 grande cups an hour, you're making money or breaking even for all three brews...bold, decaf and the awful PPR. Tell me again how this coffee is better than Yukon!

SBUX leadership is what has lost its way. Geez, even Melody admitted if a Caribou were close by she'd drop in and try a cup and she is, from what I've picked up on this website, SBUX's number one fan/customer by a long shot. The company has already bled off a lot of customers and stockholders. I still go for the coffee and the people I know there who are friends. As a stockholder, I sold even my IPO shares, so you can tell I don't think the leadership team is the right one to right this ship.

Captain Ahab (Howard) is at the wheel and instead of positioning for the future, he seems dead set on pursuing the white whale (anything other than going back to the roots of the company). As much as anyone, I see the necessity to diversify the menu offerings and appeal to many levels of customers, but for the love of all that is holy, don't forget your customers who JUST WANT A CUP OF COFFEE IN THE MORNING or any other time of the day. They shouldn't have to put in a special request for a French Press or wait for it to be brewed, unless they happen to hit that magic time when the beeper is going off. Right now, if you'd like a bold at 3 PM or a decaf at 4:30PM, you're out of luck at SBUX! Does no one else see the problem here? Yes, I can have it if I wait four to five minutes for it to be brewed or pressed, but otherwise, it's isn't happening. Can't just run in and run out as in the old days.

And, Melody, I KNOW from your other posts that some stores are manned by baristas who, sometimes, don't offer to press a coffee or brew one, either. I would venture to say it would be the majority of stores vice the minority and, again, that is a problem that starts at the top, period. You and I, Melody, probably spend well in excess of $300/month at SBUX (and that's probably a low estimate), but I have to admit my level of loyalty where I used to know where all the SBUXs were and would drive to them vice stopping at an indy store is ebbing with each passing day. The people manning the stores, for the most part, are still very good; but there is a look in their eyes that lets one know they are getting beat down. SBUX showed a net of $6M last quarter. Wonder how much of that was due to the -3% labor directive? Show a profit on the backs of your labor and at the convenience cost of your customers...not very smart. Not very smart at all!

[Melody]

Jeff, if you've been following the Ideas in Action area at MSI, you probably know that I am presently in a state of pretty phenomenal frustration right now, and to add to my issue of not being able to get bold coffee, I feel hugely disappointed by Starbucks' decision to go to "value menus".

I remember about a year ago, I was listening to one of the quarterly conference calls, and you know during the Q & A portion, one of the questions directed at Howard Schultz was precisely about "bundling" and if Starbucks would go that route.

About one year ago, Howard Schultz assured us that that would never happen. It lowered the brand too close to fast food, though he said that all much more artfully than how I just put it.

Here we are one year later. Of course who could have ever predicted how awful this year has been?? I guess things change, and the dynamics can be so bad that you have to go that route to ramp up the business, but once you go down the route of value menus, can you ever turn back? I worry. I worry.

In about 2003, when the economy was great, McDonalds was posting record losses. Fast food doesn't look so appealing when you have plenty of money for nice Whole Foods groceries or finer dining. Here we are in 2009 and McDonalds is doing very well, and Starbucks ... I guess nobody, could've seen these hard times for our Siren. I don't blame Howard Schultz for trying whatever he can to amp up the business, but I AM disappointed.

[spence]

Yes, McD's is selling decaf all day. They make a pot in the morning . . .

[Latteguzler]

Jeff:

I agree!

Jim Donald was the last CEO and got fired due to his role in all the bad decissions but Howard was still the "Chairman of the Board" during the same time. We still have the same management we've always had. Howard might know how to build a company but it's looking like he doesn't know how to run one (or fix one). I wounder if the management at Pepsico would?

[Lilith]

We are moving to "bundling". That's what the secretive Feb meeting was all about.

[Coffee Soldier]

Does anyone know of any stores that have been notified they are closing yet?

[FH Guy]

Excuse me for being so rude as to point this out, but "on demand" at Starbucks means, for decaf like it does (did) for bold, when they stopped brewing all-day bold that:

1) The baristas look at you like you have 4 eyes;

2) That they pretend not to understand what you're talking about;

3) That they ask you if you want an Americano;

4) That they might consent to brewing a pot for you, if you insist;

5) Or they might say "no':

6) Or (scariest of all) they might really have no clue what you're talking about.

Regardless, your first cup of "on demand" whatever is your last cup. And if you think that's not true, I have a cup of PPR for that's really "bold."

[Kathy]

No Caribou Coffee in rural southern Illinois, but, the McDonald's in my little town has been remodeled into a "McCafe"! I have not been there yet, I am too devoted to SBX. This McD sits right on the major interstate highway that runs through my little town. It is in the same complex as our Kroger grocery store, which would have been a perfect location for a licensed SBX. I will say though that at one time we had a very good indie coffee shop that is now out of business and we presently have a deli that sells coffee/espresso but it is terrible. Why is it so hard to get a good latte?

[Kathy]

Today we got Pike Place. We not had it until now. I have not tried it and from what I have heard on here, do not think I will try it.

[Jim C]

The irony of Pike Place Roast was that when it was in R & D, it was panned by the majority of the focus groups, but the blend was just so darn - cheap. It is a cheaper blend of beans folks, pure and simple. Keep a watch for such cost-cutting measures in the future. Serve the customer something they don't want, or like, at least we won't have to raise the prices.

[kb]

Caribou's wifi is easier to navigate (just enter your email and you're good- similar to panera). Also, the ones I've been to don't allow homeless folks to loiter (big plus in downtown DC locations). Their only downside is their food is a bit unhealthy.

[BAYAREABUX]

Jim C, I think everyone figured that out back in April. Latin American beans are the least expensive on the shelf, and PPR seems to be made from the least refined of those.

You're right, though, no reason to serve what so many customers/partners DETEST... but at least its DIRT CHEAP to brew.

[bean barrage]

Caribou has a cozy cabin/lodge atmosphere vs the Starbucks cheap uncomfortable furniture. The coffee is comparable quality wise. From an operations standpoint Caribou blatantly copied every success SBUX had over the years, not necessarily to out do SBUX. I think they never really expected to upend SBUX (although I'm sure they would if they thought they could). Their business plan was simple. There was extra market capacity ,and for a business, a coffee house is a relatively cheap operation to set up and run. What Caribou will see at this point is the same thing all of you are seeing- a decline in popularity. It is possible they will have a chance to overpower, but a very very slim one. Their stock has been hovering around zilch for a while and I'll bet if you charted the success and decline of SBUX over the years you would see Caribou trending almost identical. Caribou is not a threat to SBUX, but Dunkin, McDonalds (and I will say soon you will see Panera in that mix), are all a threat to the market share. I would say Caribou will have to make a drastic change from the SBUX model or they will fade away as well. I also say that Caribou would be wise to learn in real time from the mistakes SBUX is making. If I was influencing Caribou, I would immediately put on a large marketing campaign about feeling the pain, and responding by lowering the prices. To me this is simple economic solution to gain some share here, and none of the coffee competitors are doing this. Sure McDonalds makes their statement about $4 coffee being ridiculous, but they are not far from that. Also what everyone seems to miss is that with the new coffee McDonalds offers, the price went up. Last week Panera raised their prices with their new "exquisite" coffee. I used to manage a SBUX, I used to manage a Panera and let me tell you Panera has a good thing going, but their coffee sucks-BAD. As a matter of fact their entire caffeine selection is garbage. They do not even train their staff to make the drinks. Listen to the steam wands screaming away in their when you go in in the morning. Scalding the milk away, a cappuccino and a latte are the same thing. My point on this last part is SBUX still has an easy advantage and Howard talks of it, but does not do it. Take a hit, close stores that never should have opened, glean your excess SSC and upper echelon to a necessary point. BUT, lower the price of your coffee, even a little bit, and allow the customer service to continue or come back. Make this action your investment and the traffic will come back and experience will come back and your company can emerge as a powerful one once again. (Tighten up you supply chain and get some of the margin back that way) Increase your traffic the way you established it, not by gimmicky oatmeal and rolling out new products every quarter. SO much good press would come of a lowering of the price to meet these difficult times. It is not cheapening the brand. Cheapening the brand is licensing it to AMC movie theaters who proudly brew/screw the drip coffee. I had one the other day it was an Americano. I asked the kid why I was not getting a drip coffee like it advertised and he said this was the Starbucks way of making coffee. I just laughed as it was not his fault (plus an Americano is ok with me). THAT is cheapening the brand. Lowering the price is responding to your customer and creating or recapturing a loyal market. I swear I have never really seen such an amateur attempt at running a company and never would have though to be so bold as to make that statement as so much more goes on than meets the eye. But these straw grasping initiatives and short term lies to partners and stockholders is really CHEAPENING THE BRAND. I feel for you guys, I still have some loyalty to the company, because of some of the great partners.

[Munchkin]

I'm tired of talking about decaf.

I read on MSI that Starbucks is going to be coming out with some new sugar-free syrups later this Spring. Anyone have any ideas? A new SF mocha? SF Toffee Nut? Something else?

[meeting?]

what's "bundling"??

[Scott]

Oh great, new sugar free syrups. That will fix us.

We need to reduce our menu not add to it. We need to KEEP THINGS SIMPLE. We've already tried complicating things, it hasn't worked yet...it probably wont work in the future.

Stop fixing things that arn't broken (like the Gingerbread Lattes adding candied ginger to them) and start looking at things that are problems(like hiring DM's from outside the company that have no knowledge of coffee or retail). We need to cut down our storage needs and organize our back rooms. For God sake can anyone quickly find anything with all the crap we have to store. Let's not introduce anything new when we can't even make what we offer now. How about fixing our distribution centers. We order things and they don't send them. They are always running out of things (salt for the SCSHC).

Why must we keep going doing the same thing expecting it will work this time. Starbucks has been going down hill as a company for 3 years now and it started with those stupid fruit juice and tea crapacinos that ceated long lines, cutting labor to zero variance (and below), and lowering our standard for store placement so we could open up more stores.

Honestly, I've never seen a company go sour so quickly. It's as if they are trying to go out of business.

[Melody]

@meeting?

"Bundling" is combining food items for a better deal. It essentially is a "value meal" - So a customer will be able to say, "I'll take combo number 2" which might be an oatmeal, and a tall drip coffee for $4.99, or, "I'll take combo #3" which maybe is a pastry and tall latte for $5.99 ...

I'm definitely interested in knowing more about the upcoming bundling, if anyone has the skinny on it.

As for sugar-free syrups, per an MSI poll, sugar-free Peppermint would be in high demand, theoretically. But I agree, a renewed focus on sugary stuff or sugar flavor just doesn't seem like a great idea. It's about the coffee, still.

[ndemystic]

I had lunch at Panera for the first time today, had a Chicken Ceaser sandwhich with an apple and a Hazelnut coffee. Got outa there for around $6.00. I swear I saw my DM. Anyway, I chose to sit next to the warm stone fireplace. It was freezing out! One felt like they were at a ski lodge, even the trash cans were made of wood. The coffee was set up as a do it yourself bar and it offered two flavors and regular and decaf. You could not see the espresso machines from the counter and I did not hear any going but it was an off time being around 2:30. I had two job interviews both were call backs from applying on line. The first interview went well and I have another interview to meet higher ups. So maybe there is still hope. Anyway, Panera's food is very tasty but I don't think we could get away with a do it yourself coffee bar but from a customers point of view it was quick and easy.

[Barista Ben]

Oiy. caribuo is a franchise? Then its hit or miss, so i've found, with the quality. Bad Ass Coffee co, has some good shops and some horrible shops -- all depends on the owner.

I couldn't find one anywhere near LA where i live.

Sugar free peppermint? Honestly most people don't seem to realize we carry the regular peppermint year round.