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March 12, 2009

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Sirensong

This is Dumb as a COMPLAINT but they are surely not the first to link the mermaid of the Starbusks logo as a surviving aspect of the old goddess/queens.

http://www.endicott-studio.com/jMA03Summer/theMermaid.html

S-to-the-M

Wow... news is slow... but stocks are up! We inched past $10!! Yay!!

Paco Loco

How many are up for a new logo, maybe like a mexican-mama sitas!!

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL

Again, the towelheads never cease to amaze me with their hyperbole.

Chris H

Ok...I have to take issue with the "towel heads" phrase...its ignorant for a couple reasons. One - The ones who wear turbans (towels) are Siekhs, from India and Pakistan, not Muslims nor Arabs. Two - I mean really? "towel heads"...it isnt even that creative.
Since you not only spelled hyperbole correctly, but also used it correctly I assume you are an intelligent person, the whole statement indicates otherwise.

If you must use racial/ethnic epithets, please at least TRY to be creative. It's the least you can do.

BEARista

If she is Esther then I am Cher.

SBUX Alum Bill

This must be a really slow news day. Isn't there anything on organizational changes, or maybe another pronouncement by SBUX of a new initiative that's going to save the day?

Kat

Give me a break! Queen Esther? Can these religious extreemists PLEASE leave our country and go back to where they are obviously more comfortable burning down their own villages.

StarbucksGirl

and all this time I thought it was me :-/

Larry

Sikh, not Siekh, is the correct spelling.

MaudDib

Once again someone chooses to raise an issue with a company that they know very little about. I wish people would do some research before they decided to stand up against something. Nothing looks worse than getting in your battle stance to only find out that there is no battle.

spence

Queen Esther has been recorded as being the most beautiful woman in the land. Clearly that is not our beloved siren.

foxy

Um, Kat, it never said that they were in your country. I believe Al-Nas TV is from that general part of the world (ie Egypt, since it was an Egyptian clerk).

Going! Going! Gone!

I thought it was a drag queen wearing diving fins. But now I'm sure it was a well thought out plot to overthrogh the middle east and bring Jewish caffine to millions of radical muslims in hopes of making them jittery.

Who cares!!!

Herman M

I say bring back the original gal full time. No way she gets mistaken for Esther (or Elizabeth or the Queen of Sheba) that way.

That'll show 'em! ;-)

FLA SM

What part of the bible states that Queen Esther had two fish tails?

ali cat from denver

OK what happens on april first? you can be fired for any reason. cash handling,late, and your availabilty.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Maybe some hajis will declare fatwa on the Starbucks Rebel Alliance.
But anyway, we know that the girl in the Starbucks logo is Secretary Clinton.
On another note, I have always felt that Starbucks should not conduct business in countries like Saudi Arabia or China where human rights are constantly violated. I mean really, why can't men and women sit together in the same area.
Starbucks should really examine where they conduct business.

Fatwa

A fatwa on Starbucks?

Herman M

I think someone is trying to pick a fight. Let's discuss puppies instead.

Neil Harris

The article in the Jerusalem Post was truly the silliest thing I've ever read.

Not getting paid...

I just checked my bank account to see if I got any money deposited into my account from Starbucks and it wasn't there. Is it deposited at midnight EDT or PDT?

SPORK

Well this is one thread I do NOT want to take part in. What is wrong with some of you?

CamSpi

i thought it was a robot from the future. *just kidding*

Abou Sino

This is the most stupid thing i ever heard :'Jewish Queen Esther Serves as Their Logo'

LOLOLOL

Duke

I dunno, I think her argument might be more convincing if the corporation didn't explicitly publish the origins of it's logo. Instead it sounds like the rantings of a madperson.

Kelly Smith

Rather amusing thread! tee hee

Moiraine

BSR, you crack me up. A Fatwa on Starbucks?
I am going to have to re-read, so I can find that elusive scripture about Queen Esthers fins. :p FLA SM, I'll be sure and let you know if I locate it. haha.

And why not? Howard has already been accused of arming the Israelis to destroy the Palestinians. I'm sure he has nothing better to do with his time. :p

Moiraine

On a more serious note, Boston Starbucks Rebel, you may have a point. I think this just re-affirms a double standard. We are all about fair trade, and ethically sourced blah blah blah, but really isn't it about the money?

In general, as a nation, we spout a lot of moral superiority when in fact we are in bed with all the harlots of the world.

Paco Loco

Mexican women all around for everybody, YEA Viva La Rassa!

RogerTheBarista

BSR,

Do you use the N word to describe African Americans, or the F word to describe homosexuals? Calling people towelheads is a racial slur. Whether you describe it as a joke or whatever, it is racist and it makes you a rascist.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL

If Prince Harry can do it, why can't I? Let's not forget Islam is a religion of "peace" please cross-reference September 11, 2001.

RogerTheBarista

"If Prince Harry can do it I, why can't I".

So using racist slurs against people is fine as long as others do it? I remember that was one way that people were able to justify the N word and segregation for so long in this country. No change in attitudes there then, even after all these years.

What does "a religion of peace", or war, or whatever have to do with using a racial slur? Absolutely nothing. One is an opinion/statement on someones religion and how they carry it out. The other is a perjorative statement from one group against another.

And as for the comment about why men and women can't sit together on park benches. Well, thats quite the same as segregation in a way, don't you think, something that was synonymous with pejorative racial slurs like yours.

I think it should be Boston Starbucks Racist from now on. That still makes it BSR for ease of reference.

MyGiveADamnsBusted

BSR_Boston Starbucks Rebel. You are one idiotic racist! I agree whole heartedly with what rogerthebarista said in his comment. This forum has no place for racist cooments. Calling a towelhead is a racist slur. It is uncalled for, unacceptable, and downright shows how culturally insensitive you are. Personally if i were the webmaster i would ban your arse for life from these boards. I wish I knew what store you work at... I'd definitely give you a piece of my mind. i'd walk in as a customer approach you as a gay latino partner and rip on you like you wouldnt believe. Do you have something against other people as well? Cuz honey i'd so put you in your place...Male or female i couldnt care less who you are.

And by the way homeless people are no less people than anyone else. Have enough sensitivity and respect to not knock the homeless in these forums.

Tom

Uh, I think the link text should be "Egyptian cleric," not "Egyptian clerk."

Sense

Yea, lets not forget that christianity is a religion of "peace" as well. Just ask the crusaders, the inquisition, blown up family planning clinics.........

Extremism is extremism regardless of it's roots. They're all nuts

Titus McJiggis

Hmmm...we know the Starbucks girl is NOT Arab (no facial hair). And to think this sand negro/camel jockey is a religous leader!
Why do they always whine so much? They whine more than we African-Americans!

Clerk, not cleric? Do they have 7-11s there too?

Sneaky

Regarding not doing business in Saudi Arabie or China, I totally disagree. There are definately large sections of the popualtion in both these countries that are desperately trying to change the culure toward a more cival rights based agenda. Bringing in a company with a history of inclusion is a great step forward in their cause.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL

Free Tibet? Arranged marriages. Some of you might know who Mary Ann Glendon is. She was at a conference in Beijing about feminism. Of course the commies, tried to shut her up. Of all people who rushed to her defense was Betty Friedan. True feminist would see how certain countries oppress women and other minorities. If feminist believe a woman should have control over their bodies, than how can feminism be brought into harmony with political and religious ideologies that do not?
For those who think I'm racist, aren't you being racist against racist?
Think and contrast it when the Prophet says to kill the infidel and when Jesus says to love your enemy?

splash!

<3 BSR!!

You can't compare it with the "n word" because african americans use it to refer to eash other ALL the TIME. If it were that offensive, they wouldn't use it either!

But besides that, BSR frequently says things slightly off-center or slightly off-color. you all who read her posts take her too seriously!

RogerTheBarista

Splash!,

When Boston Starbucks Racist posts a racist comment, that is to be taken seriously, as it should be with anyone else.

All racism needs to be taken seriously. It's ugly, divisive and like a cancer. Can you not see how racism hurts a country and its people? Look back in our history. You think the people who were hung from trees shouldn't have taken it so seriously? Do you think the people who are still denied civil rights shouldn't take it seriously?

So take it seriously, as it is. I guess if/when you are ever beaten up or killed for your skin colour or ethnicity you will be laughing and not taking it seriously then too.

cactusmush

Wow...BSR...

Until this thread I thought most of your comments were somewhat erudite.

In 4 posts you've demolished yourself
pretty bad.

Maybe if you took accountability for your first post (which quite possibly was posted in haste) then you could start anew.

Cheers

Noodoggy

to all of those that think starbucks is hypocritical for doing business in places where there are issues with human rights, you might want to read about Abraham Lincoln. The surest way to get people to change is to engage them in discussion and to get them to believe that the ideas you are promoting are actually their ideas. What that entails is magnanimity and a belief that people want to be better.
A good example is Soviet Russia. Its downfall was because of glasnost and the sneaking in of American ideas by way of American products(not quite so simple but bear with me). The only way countries that have poor human rights are going to get any better is by being exposed to better and more beneficial ideas.
Chew on that and enjoy your cup of coffee.

Kat (the other one)

Wow, that's pretty...amusing actually. I wish people would worry about things that actually matter.

TNT

Noodoggy:

As long as we're getting political... America hasn't had the best human rights record lately either. We should all look at our own side of the street before pointing a finger. In one culture it is fine to repress a woman, in another it is fine to discriminate based on sexual orientation, weight, or looks. Some cultures value health care for all and others only offer it to some. In one culture it's O.K. to use torture to get information and in another it isn't (unless your C.I.A.).

I have always been a proud American but in the last few years I haven't been very proud of America's choices. I'm just recently getting some hope back. If Starbucks can be in America they should be anywhere else on earth too. When our side of the street is clean only then can we attract others that might want to be anything like us.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL

TNT,
You sound like Michelle Obama, alot. Who said she wasn't proud to be an American. After reading, her Princeton senior thesis, she and sounds like one of those Witches of East Brunswick or harpies. Maybe you'll being ended up beheaded, being broadcasted to the world?

diggity

...this reminds me of a southpark episode or something. Arguing about racism... on a starbucks gossip site. Either that or it reminds me of the special olympics.

BovineStone

With all the talk of racism here (and, frankly, with all the racist talk as well) I'm a little surprised that no one is noting what's really going on here. Claiming that the siren in the logo is Queen Esther may be uninformed, but so what? That statement wouldn't have power in a sermon if it were not for the strong anti-Semitic currents that are the norm over there. This cleric's complaint is full of symbols that represent other symbols, and as such, it's important to trace those symbols to understand what's at the heart of the message, and what forces are being used to spread it.

Let's start with this thought: If Islamic culture relies on a certain degree of religious control in order to maintain itself, Western culture (which shifts authoritative emphasis to the secular world) is an obvious threat.

Starbucks is a large corporation that can, in some ways, represent the broad reach of Western power. It is based in the US, which is the current cultural superpower, it has spread all over the world, and as such, it is an avenue through which certain Western ideals can spread to the Islamic world.

The logo, of course, represents Starbucks (and as such, indirectly represents The West).

Now, here's where things get dangerous. Instead of maintaining a high level of discourse about the cultural threat of a superpower (using Starbucks as an example, perhaps), this Cleric (and many others) makes use of a commonly accepted formula: Jews are evil, and therefore anything associated with them is evil. In order for this formula to work effectively in a public presentation, its first clause needs to be very commonly and pervasively accepted.

The fact that this anti-Semitic foundation is so strong that it can be used to vilify anything (whether or not there's any real connection) is frightening to me. It is accepted de rigeur, not merely as fact, but as a common reference point.

It's like the way Western rhetoric might use the term "Nazi" to vilify something. Hollywood movies used to do this a lot -- if someone was supposed to be really evil, re-write the script a bit, make him (or her) a Nazi, and everyone instantly understands. It's a form of cultural short-hand.

All stereotypes function in this way, but most, I would argue, are more complex. Some of the derogatory terms found (unfortunately) in this thread refer either to specific sets of issues (broad claims that Arabs are warmongering, intolerant) or they re-cast an entire race in to one class of people (Africans/African-Americans as poor, subservient, uneducated, lower-class). But the terrible, racist statements here are directed perhaps in anger, perhaps in frustration, directly at their subject. In the case of this story, though, the broad cultural power and non-specific, vacuous meaning of anti-Semitic sentiment is used to convey meaning about something altogether different and unrelated.

This cleric's statement is not about Starbucks. It is about the West. Since the company we work for is a good one, the cleric needed more simple-to-understand "proof" that Starbucks is a problem in order to deepen the underlying message about the West. The cleric opted to use Jews as shorthand to make Starbucks look evil, and through it, to make the US look evil. The fact that an entire religion/race/people (however you want to define it) can be so easily used in this way, as shorthand in a public setting, is yet another distressing indication not only of the broad acceptance of racist formulas and ideas in this subset of Islamic culture, but also of the way these ideas get reinforced through use. The racism has become such an ingrained part of popular rhetoric that it is no longer used to attack a people, but as a definition in and of itself.

I have no solution to offer, no quick-fix that will change out one swatch of linguistic/cultural fabric for another. As a Jew (and an observant Jew, at that), I can only pray that the Islamic world find the power to change itself from within before this kind of deep-rooted rancor spreads. Alas, we can see from some of the other posts in this forum, it is already spreading, and being reflected back.

Shalom from your loyal Barista in Baltimore

Noodoggy

@BovineStone: well said
@TNT: cleaning one's side of the street does not preclude pointing out or working towards granting liberty to others at the same time. for example if you arent great with finances and havent made the right steps to fix them does not mean that you cant step in, say, to prevent your child from repeating the same mistake. I definitely do not think American, or Western, actions are perfect...far from it. But I will be sure to promote the spasms and lurches that we make towards liberty for all humans. Lincoln based his philosophy of government on the Declaration of Independence, particularly the doctrine of self-government and the protection of liberty that is self-evidently right. It is this idea that forms the backbone of our government and the way many westerners think. It is also a rather bold experiment in human politics. and its ongoing. The beauty of this is that you, who want to make sure we do the right thing, play an important part in the dance of two sides pushing forward and reining in government. Try voicing dissent in other countries and see what happens!

and now for my musing: One thing that always gets me about the clean up your side before pointing the finger is...who is holding the other side responsible for their actions? A perfect world would be where everyone is falling all over themselves to clean up their side of the street....but alas...that certainly is not reality!

And to end on a saying and observation, an psychology teacher told me the people who scare him the most are fundamentalists....for they are so firm and resolute in their beliefs that they no longer deal in reality. I tend to agree.
The more firm you are, the more likelier you are to snap.

WasBaristaWhenPoor

@BovineStone - great comment, thanks for sharing.

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