"From the Comfy Chair": Juan is served coffee without a lid. What's with that? A Canada thing?

BY JUAN VALDEZ

We regret to inform you we are going to push back our visit to the Starbucks at 538 S. Virginia St in Reno, Nevada for another week or so. Over the weekend, someone mentioned in the comments section of Starbucks Gossip that Howard Schultz was going to be in Vancouver, BC this week. Almost immediately a light bulb flickered over my head and grew stronger as I considered the possibilities. I didn't really expect to be able to see him this week before the column was due but I did think I could go up there and scope out what he might see. So I did. As a result, I give you the Canadian version of "From The Comfy Chair."

The gal-pal and I hit four SBUX during our quick visit to the Vancouver area. In the interests of conserving space, I won't do a full report on each visit but touch on the highlights...or lowlights as it were. I do have some general comments which pretty much cover all four stores. 

First, we hit these stores in the late afternoon/evening.

Second, every store we visited was serving PPR.  As the mild coffee. Yes, you saw that correctly.  Every store was brewing Komodo Dragon or Verona as the bold coffee. In. The. Evening. This was Melody heaven if I ever saw one.

Finally, we ordered drip coffee at every stop. In every case, our coffee came without a lid. These were all to-go cups and we weren't asked if we wanted our drinks "for here"; we were just handed our drinks without lids. Is that a Canada thing? It seemed very strange. And dangerous. /CONTINUED IN THE FIRST COMMENT

Comments

[embean]

@KGB people are going to dump coffee whether they have a lid or not. they still have to take the lid off at the condiment stand, so your point makes no sense.

[Basic Black]

Since the lids and cups changed i think they are more flimsy.

Here is a solution. Use a travel mug. You keep the lid and the mug is clean cause you brought it from home.

Some customers bring less than clean cups but most are clean and always more sturdy than the paper ones.

I used to prefer a paper cup, but now bring my own travel mug. I have a few stainless steel and a few ceramic.

I think Sbux is really missing the boat for not providing enough incentives for using your own cup. 10 cents is not enough.

A few local independant coffee shops give you the small price if you bring your own mug... even if it is bigger.

I am sick of giving away free water every day to the same regulars. I think Sbux should fill water bottles for free and charge a nominal fee (.25) for a cup of water and give the same discount (.25) if you use a travel mug.

If they can afford free syrups with a sbux card, then increasing the cup discount is doable.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

I think they should include a program called "Double the Lovin'." If you bring a travel mug, you get 25 cents off and if you use a Starbucks Card you get another 25 cents off.

[anon]

@BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL -

That promo is called "Lovin' from the Oven" and it's the new pairings promo...

:-p

[SBUX Alum Bill]

Since there seem to be a lot of Canadians dialed into this thread, I'd like your reaction to the linked article about the ubiquity of Tim Hortons in Canada.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Every customers want some of my lovin

[Bean Counter]

I generally considered the token scorched earth Conservative at my store ;)

[Sigh]

To all of those who are asking things like, "Are Americans really unable to walk over to a condiment bar without spilling?":

Two things:
1) Probably not.
2) There are plenty of customers who freak out if their coffee isn't filled to the brim of the cup. This would pose a problem even if said customers were good at walking carefully and not spilling things in most cases.

I'd really rather not have to explain why drinks don't have lids on them, why I'm not allowed to fill the coffee perfectly to the brim anymore, etc.

[CamSpi]

Who is Juan Valdez? I have a theory that he (or she... who uses the term 'gal-pal?') uses SG under another pseudonym....

[CanuckDuck]

Hey Juan... Did you know that the Canuck cups are not sized in ounces, either?!

[Bean Counter]

@ CanucksDuck

Canadian cups are sized in BOTH ounces AND milliliters. The menu board lists the "ml" metric measurement in tiny, almost unreadable font, and the cup size stand lists the sizes in ounces. I've yet to have a customer order a drink using a ml reference for size, but I still get customers ordering a 16 or a 20 oz drink. Canada is far from a fully metric country.

[Simon MacDonald]

Hmm...I always thought the "no lid" policy was so I could put my own cream and sugar in my cup. Learn something new everyday.

[KGB]

@BSR Disc player

[KGB]

@embean hey bud thanks for the heads up I had no idea my point made no sense! With no lid they can spill on the floor all the way to the condiment bar, and not just on the floor in front of it. would you like a pairing with that? Thank you! have a nice day, i hope you love your Iced Mocha!!

[mickey]

Juan. Thanks for the work you're doing. I'm not sure why you're doing it, but I'm glad you are. Are you cataloging this, posting all your visits? Are you getting any SSC interest or follow up on the stores with opportunities for improvement. (and by opportunities i mean: Seriously, somebody FIX this! If we can't get trash management and clean !@#$ing bathrooms right - we're SUNK!)
Keep touring and keep posting.
Let us know when you need help.

[ktown barista]

Sbux Alum Bill - As an Ontario resident I can attest to the blight that Tim Hortons seems to be. I recently switched jobs and there is a Timmy's just up the street and people I work with swear by it. Luckily there are a couple of people who were regulars of mine so we can talk coffee. Yes, I am a coffee snob. Or so I have been labeled by my family (none of whom care about what their coffee tastes like apparently) but I got that label years before working for Starbucks when I started refusing to go to Tim Hortons because i didn't like their coffee. When I was young, I thought I didn't like coffee because Tim's was the only place in town that teens would go. And I am not saying that Starbucks is the b-all and end-all of coffee. It definitely isn't. I have found some lovely independent shops, including a local roaster, that have much smoother coffees. What Starbucks is, or should be, is consistent. When I travel, that is why I go to Starbucks, as well as the service, which is generally better than Tim's. But consistency is also why Tim Horton's is so damn popular. Once you think that's what coffee should be, you can get it from coast to coast without any effort. So it's easy.

As far as the sizes being in ounces in Canada, that's true. Yes they are also listed in mls but nobody orders by that size anyway. The best part about the metric vs imperial system of measuring is the whole bean sign. (Yes, my old store still has one up. My manager refused to change it. Pleading ignorance is always a good choice.) The sign says we sell by the 100g, and gives the price for 100g, but in reality we only sell by the 1/4 pound or 114g. That is stated in very small print on the bottom of the sign. Luckily most stores no longer have the signs so there isn't anymore explaining to do to customers who want 100g of coffee.

Sorry to ramble, I haven't posted here for a while.

PS Melody, you really should come up some time if only for a cup of bold in the afternoon.

[Juan Valdez]

@mickey

Thanks for the kind words and thanks for the offer...I think I've got it under control.

I do these columns because I'm fascinated between the disconnect between what Howard says in his public statements and what is taking place in the stores. And, no, I haven't been contacted by anyone from the SSC nor do I expect to.

[Juan Valdez]

ooopss..its very late...that should be "by" instead of the first "between"

[SPORK]

Melody if you come up, your bold of the day is on me.

[james]

coffee to go without a lid in Canada!
who said the internet is full of useless information?

[BaristaBot2.0]

AH!! You were in Vancouver!? And didn't stop at my store!!!

I am most certain you would have been pleased with your visit if you did!!

[mtl_sbux]

IVe been working at STarbucks for two years now in Canada, and we have never once told to put lids pon anything. If im working at the espresso bar I always put lids on all the drinks (everyone else doesnt), but not even I put the lid on teas or coffees. We have never been told to do otherwise

[BC DM]

Juan:

Thanks for visiting us in Canada...I am not surprised you found a dirty store....we seem to have a lot of partners who think that they just need to show up for work, and do not understand having pride in what you do. Thankfully the economy has slowed down here too and we can get rid of all of the lazy, impolite baristas that think we should green apron them just for remembering when their shift was and to tuck in their shirt.

[Supposed Eric]

SBC inside Borders in California seems to also let the customer put the lid on. As mentioned, such a location is slow. The cafe is usually full of people reading magazines and there is never a line unless there's an indecisive customer.

[Sumatra Sunny]

I just can't believe that Canadians wash their hands as little as you all say you do. It's starting to sound like you all pee directly on yourselves, then go serve people coffee. I simply don't believe it.

That being said, being from the States, I can absolutely understand the arguments both for and against lidded drinks. I've been to a lot of independent neighborhood coffee shops, on both coasts INCLUDING Seattle (where I tried to stay away from SB as much as possible) where your drink is handed to you lidless. The obvious case FOR a lid: less spillage, mess, etc.
The case against:
in most of these independent shops, the condiment bar is not very far from the register or hand-off area. In my college coffee destination, we basically had to turn directly around to find everything we needed once our drinks were made. And no one ever spilled. At Wayward Cafe in Seattle(AWESOME coffee, btw), the barista took the cream out from her fridge for me, and I used it at the register before handing it back. Maybe not efficient in a high volume store, but still kind.

When doctoring pre-lidded coffee at a condiment bar, the problem of where to place your lid while working always arises. The choices are to either put your lid down directly on the counter, which is sometimes skanky, crusty, sugary, and teeming with bacteria, or to use a napkin (or shall we say, serviette?) as a working surface. That option wastes a napkin, and don't get me started on the outrageous number of people who feel so inclined to just leave their napkin there, inches from the trash opening, cluttering up the space and view.

Then you have the times when either a sliding barista or kindly customer throws away someone else's lid while cleaning up, wasting more resources. And the times a gust of wind blows through, knocking stray lids down. Or there are the customers who just don't want a lid at all, but rather than throw away the lid they've been given at the conveniently located trash can, leave their lids strewn willy-nilly around the store.

I suppose it's just a case of where your priorities lie.

[adam]

I've noticed most specialty coffee shops go lidless. Some of it is to show off their barista skills, especially capps and lattes. Starbucks has nothing to show off so it's better they cover up. An americano from a specialty shop has a nice head of crema on it. It looks delicious. An americano from Starbucks looks like a drip coffee. It looks so bad you should put two lids on it!

[toronto barista]

The whole Canadian lid thing is something to do with Health Code, we don't touch the lid of your personal cup either and we wear gloves when we stock the lids at the condiment stands (at my store anyway).

Makes sense anyway, people tend to put something in their drink before popping the lids on and I'm not aware of many dangerous coffee disasters... except for one partner who spilt hot tea all over his arm (I think he had it coming anyway, bad karma).

[Vancity]

@ BC DM,

You're obviously living in the clouds my friend if you believe there are hordes of people lined up begging to work at the 'Bux for $9/hr. Not to mention the likelihood of the majority of the applicants being better than the "lazy, impolite baristas" that are employed right now. Honestly, I could care less about being "legendary" insofar as there's almost no financial incentive for me to do so. Every time I'm in the store on the clock, I conduct myself in a polite, professional way as I do in my FT job. I clock in, make every drink to corporate standard, greet and converse with customers in a laid-back friendly tone, and clean areas of the store when needed. But to think that I'm going to take the next step by doing my own version of the three-ring circus by reciting by memory every item in the pastry case by acting as DT customers own personal shopper just for a chance of a little upsell every time is beyond fathom. But then again, people like you have tried to “separate” me from the company due to my non-compliance of Optimal Scheduling, but so far that has not happened either.

Keep living in your deamworld, buddy!

[popegreg]

On a visit to Vancouver back around 2002 I was told at one of the downtown S'bux that they could not add a packet of Sugar in the Raw to my latte due to "health codes." I had to add it myself, and truthfully it doesn't taste the same. I prefer it to disolve in the the espresso. Very annoying.