Starbucks says there's no TOFU purge directive

The previous post asked: "Is it possible that Starbucks has issued a TOFU (Too Old For Us) purge directive?" Deb Trevino of Starbucks corporate communications sent this brief response: "Unequivocally false."

Comments

[just one man]

What did you think she would say?

[HoratioBucks]

Starbucks management is simple not trustworthy and that is their own fault based on the senseless and customer ignoring decisions that have been made since going to an automatic espresso machine. Wonder how Howie feels not being considered the 'golden boy' anymore or if he's deluded himself into thinking he still is.

[Mark]

Not related, but how do these people on EBAY get hold of 1000+ recovery coupons for free drinks?

[beantheredonethat]

As I said yesterday, if you look at the breakdown of those laid off, from last July and I'll bet even with the latest layoffs, you would find a disproportionate numbers of olds.

Further, just an observation: If you are male, into the 30-40ish age category, watch out. You are a rare bread and will sooner or later be shown the door in one way or another.

Just saying...

[Naptown Barista]

I guess we can conclude that YES, Starbucks monitors this site to some degree!!!!

[Melody]

Of all the things that we've talked about on here, this one seems completely unbelievable. I guess I have to agree with Deb Trevino. "Unequivocally false." If we applied TOFU to the SSC, there'd be no leadership left. LOL (j/k)

And I think we've seen prior evidence that they monitor this site.

[me]

So I guess I'll be one of the rare breed. And ever since we have a new ASM (once again...) it sure looks like you are right beantheredonethat. I'll keep my eyes open.

But so far I still like to think it is just her not getting along with males older than her and not Starbucks Corp. speaking. She has a very strong idea of people and careers. Since I'm male, over 30 and "only" a barista (by choice, I might add) I'm a looser in her eyes. She is 20 something, is a outside hire, owns her own business on the side and is a "Manager" at Starbucks. I guess so far no one really explained to her that an ASM isn't much of a manager... oh well...

[brown dot]

@ Mark

They are either partners or friends of partners. The partners take the certificates and sell them. Or they are the type of customer that complains about a drink and when you offer to remake it they say no just give me a coupon. I've seen in some stores where people will leave them out by the register and customers just help themselves. So they have several ways to get those coupons!

[Naptown Barista]

"If we applied TOFU to the SSC, there'd be no leadership left. LOL (j/k)"

Well, if you think about it, maybe they DO use TOFU, as there has obviously been a lack of leadership!!! LOL

[logjam]

the way they are trying to get ariund ageism is economics. if sbux marginalizes higher paid especially older partners with health benefits then it's not what you do but what you name it. sadly it's still wrong.

[SBUX Alum Bill]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think SBUX is telling the truth on this one. I seriously doubt that they're singling out any demographic group for unfair treatment. Even if they wanted to discriminate (and I don't think they do), they would not be so stupid as to publicize the policy to field management or anyone else at the middle management level.

Off-topic, but I thought this NYT article on

Starbucks' new ad campaign was interesting. Apparently, the current marketing effort is targeted primarily at generation Y. I'm not sure if this is the best way to differentiate SBUX from McDonald's & Dunkin' - it doesn't emphasize the "third place" aspect that is (in my opinion) the biggest competitive advantage that SBUX has over the others. What do the rest of you think of this campaign?

[SBUX Alum Bill]

Just in case the link doesn't work in the above post, here's the actual address:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/business/media/19starbux.html?_r=2&ref=technology

[ExLISM]

What they are doing, is looking at the salaries. If you make more than a certain amount, they will put you on a bogus action plan. Respect and dignity folks, Respect and dignity....

[here]

yes! ExLISM...I have been told that myself. The "older, higher paid" partners that haven't "dealt with the changes implemented" have to watch out. I know, since I have been with the company for over 5 years.

[eleanor abernathy]

I was unaware that I am a rare bread. Don't eat me.

[the watcher]

All SM's out there did you all recieve the notification from Florida attorney-class action lawsuit-time worked is time paid my friends about time they recognize it for managers also...quite frankly IM sick of making 38 hours worth of tips per week for my baristas-doing my admin on my own time(live in fear it wont get done) and recieved a 200.00 bonus last quarte-Managers deserve the tips especially when we too are coverage-i dont know about you all im averaging 50 hours a week...
and another thing while we are venting if the baristas cared about costs-thefts-partner bevs etc as much as they tips we would all be making more money-Thanks

[Mrs. Tillinghamshackles]

That was a lovely display of proper and concise grammar.

[me]

Well, manage your store better and you won't need to work 50 hours and would get more than a low 200 $ bonus. My new SM can do it. My former SM was so unorganized, he couldn't do in 60 hours what my new SM does in 40. But apparently it is doable.

Funny thing, though, you mention the "I earn tips but don't get any" scheme. This is something that never ever was an issue at any store I worked at. Except my brand new ASM just started this exact conversation two weeks ago and even throws a fit over it every single shift she works.

[Valerie Verona]

@me

i think it is so cute when ASMs think they deserve a share of the tips.

I went from a store that tips averaged 3-$3.50 an hour meaning we would easily take home a hundred in tips.

I was supposed to be promoted to ASM in that store before the economy went shitty but never once did it cross my mind to say hey I deserve that extra hundred in my pocket because as an ASM you are salaried.

maybe if i had a family of four it would be differnt... but the partners I work with. NON SALARIED. they earn those tips. as a salaried manager or assistant manager you have no right to tips and that complaint is just so annoying.

val verona
http://baristalogues.blogspot.com

[brown dot]

I can see where ASMs and SMs feel that they deserve tips, afterall the work is the same whenthe are on the floor their 32-40 hours a week (which is about your average hours worked) However, as pointed out, they are salaried, so they earn x no matter how many hours they work (and if you are in cali you get overtime if you work more than 40)

So to all of the SMs outside of cali, how do you think the SMs in cali manage to do it 40hrs what you barely do in 50-60? Do they some how have a magic wand and are able to waive it and make everything better?

And just an FYI, my district in so cali is #1 in the division and #2 in the nation in customer voice, so it's not like things are being done haphazardly. And we have one of the lowest turnover rates...

[O0-]

Of all the things that we've talked about on here, this one seems completely unbelievable. I guess I have to agree with Deb Trevino. "Unequivocally false." If we applied TOFU to the SSC, there'd be no leadership left. LOL (j/k)

And I think we've seen prior evidence that they monitor this site.
Posted by: Melody | May 19, 2009 at 02:05 PM

This is going on Melody you are not a partner and have no clue, you have invested money that Howard stole from you. Direct your anger towards him. Corp. is done numerous scandelous things and are in manny civil litigations that have cost you the investor...THIS IS GOING ON

Monitor My PINGA CABRON!!!!!!

[O0-]

Of all the things that we've talked about on here, this one seems completely unbelievable. I guess I have to agree with Deb Trevino. "Unequivocally false." If we applied TOFU to the SSC, there'd be no leadership left. LOL (j/k)

And I think we've seen prior evidence that they monitor this site.
Posted by: Melody | May 19, 2009 at 02:05 PM

This is going on Melody you are not a partner and have no clue, you have invested money that Howard stole from you. Direct your anger towards him. Corp. is done numerous scandelous things and are in manny civil litigations that have cost you the investor...THIS IS GOING ON

Monitor My PINGA CABRON!!!!!!

[000ooooooo]

@ The Watcher

your salary, that's why you get paid to cover the floor and all the other B_S you get a guaranteed paycheck every week and "call the shots' (until your store gets unionized)

[o'//,m]

All you SM's are a joke and I hope you choke on Isht

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

I think Deb "Uncle Tom" Trevino sounds like Bill Clinton when he said, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky."

I think that Starbucks does not explicitly state how store managers are to bring the store into alignment with current labor directives, however store managers are expected to reach goals. In this area Optimal Scheduling was given a deadline and stores had to have their stores "optimized" within this timeframe. I personally know not a few partners who were let go who were 40+.

I know that store managers when they have to make a decision of having integrity or sacrificing partners, they'll throw other under the bus.

Its like when Condi Rice said, "The US does not torture."

I thought I would include quotations from both sides to be fair and balanced.

I think Starbucks should look at the partners who have been terminated in the last 12 months and they will see a disproportionate amount were in fact over 40. Notice how the statement did not present any figures, showing that Starbucks terminations have been equally spread out among all age groups.

It's always whats not said that is important.

Their very silence is a loud cry.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
STARBUCKS REBEL ALLIANCE
AIM SN: BOSTONSTARREBEL

[Aghast]

Go walk off a short pier if you think you deserve tips, seriously. You are working with people who get paid enough in an hour to pay for a fast food lunch. You are paid a reasonable wage WITHOUT the tips, and you probably aren't nearly as present or good with customers as you think you are. You are the reason all of your baristas probably are unhappy and miserable, get your act together and maybe your results will improve.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Melody,
Cliff Burrows just posted a video on MSI, concerning bold and decaf. Too bad that this is not on the Retail Portal or any other directives that Starbucks has sent out to resolve your situation. But notice how fast Starbucks has reacted to this accusation of firing old farts.

[Melody]

Hi Boston Starbucks Rebel, this thread has gotten strange! In any event, I can believe a number of indecorous things about Starbucks, but at least from what I see right here around me, there's no issue of ageism. My favorite stores still have the same partners/ SMs day in and day out, with no drastic removal of those above 35 or so. I can only attest to what I see.

As for the video on concerning bold or decaf, I'm dying to know what it says. During the Shareholders' Meeting, the only segment where I was annoyed was during the Q & A session. Cliff Burrows fielded a question on decaf in the afternoon, and there's was no acknowledgment of the dance customer dance at the register, rather he even suggested that a coffee drinker might want an Americano. It only confirmed for me that experience of brew on demand and the desires of the customer haven't been well-thought out by the SSC.

So what was the upshot of the new video (which I assume was on the partner side of the site)?

And yes, I've often noticed how quickly Starbucks reacts to somethings but not to others.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Melody,
Cliff Burrows said that BOLD customers like you are shit-out-of-luck at Starbucks. You will have Pike Place Roast, take it or leave it. Thats basically what I understood from the video concerning PPR vs. Bold. I am sorry, Melody, it was a valiant fight to try to maintain the culture and heritage of Starbucks. However, it has come down from on high, the power-that-be, BOLD is dead.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
PRIMUS INTER PARES
STARBUCKS REBEL ALLIANCE
AIM SN: BOSTONSTARREBEL

[Melody]

Thank you for letting me know Boston Starbucks Rebel. I can't put into words how heavy that makes my heart, but at least the leadership is being honest about what's going on. Better that, then to be told, "you will have baristas offer to brew you coffee afternoon, and morning pick in the morning" only to find out that's a lie.

[buxmgr]

There is no directive to let "older" partners go. I have a 60+ year old partner, and three 40+ year old partners who are dedicated and hard working partners. (***Side note, I have not had to write corrective action on these partners for texting a novel to their friends while at work.) When I hire, I look for responsible, hard working, legendary partners. Maybe a 22 year old manager does not have the maturity herself to staff her store properly. Nor does she realize what experience brings to the feel of her store. I know what type of partner makes my job easier!

[buxmgr]

Oh, and tips... any Asm or Mgr who thinks they should earn tips needs to step down, they are ridiculous! Mgrs should focus on running a great store, developing great partners and look for their own development and promotion opportunities and quit worrying about barista's tips!!!

[Aces of Eight]

This whole thing is stupid... even if you looked at the breakdown and saw older partners getting the boot... it would be because they have been with the company longer, not due to ageism.

It is a corporate practice that is as old as the hills in any company I have ever heard, and it is SOP in just about any company in the United States (possibly the world). It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the amount of time with the company.

Why? Because the longer one has been with the company the more they get in pay, bonuses, etc. etc. etc.

So you get rid of the people that make more (like the ASM's, (not the dm's because they still need some of those, or think they do, but ASM's seemed expendable) and get rid of not all (they never get rid of all) but of any people who are making too much money and are not basically amazing contributors.

Then they bring in new hires, and train them to do what the long time workers could do for a fraction of the cost. Corporations have been managing headcount in this manager for a very long time. Let me give you an example of how it isn't ageism. Fire a 30 year old who has been with the company for over 10 years and commands a fairly high bit of money. Hire a 40 year old who starts as a new hire and makes a lot less (due to the normal pay rate for new hires that most companies practice for entry level positions regardless of age and experience) and voila, big savings for the company if done on a large scale.

[Thought of the Day]

Can someone PLEASE upload this "bold" video segment to You-Tube? Or a web page?The curiosity is killing me. Thanks. Sorry for the off topic comment. Feel free to delete this web-master.

[Ryan (SS)]

ahhh, if corporate can send a response to an article on here because they read this stuff then why can't they listen to everything else we have to say? *exasperated sigh*

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

I wonder if Cliff wears that black vest everywhere he goes? I find his annoying British accent telling us how to run our stores. I think we should just throw Pike Place Roast like we did at the Boston Tea Party.

[spence]

We are still brewing bold at my store from open to close.
Having said that, it might be because we have educated so many customers over the years that we created a neighborhood of bold drinkers and can justify it.
Newer stores under these lean circumstances aren't able to spend time doing so. I worry their customers are just going to continue drinking Pike until they realize the gas station coffee is cheaper and tastes the same.

[Melody]

We almost need a thread for "the bold is dead video by Cliff Burrows." From what I read here and from comments on twitter, some people take it as just a reiteration of the same standard as always, and some take it as bold is dead.

What a fabulous example of ambiguous messages.

If the operational expectation is really morning pick in the morning, decaf in the morning, PPR all day, and brew on demand meaning you will offer to brew coffee, then why not say that in the video? I'm just assuming that hasn't been said based on comments here.

[Ettal]

The most abused social perception we humans often employ is the belief that correlation implies causation... it does not.

There may be MANY other legitimate factors, other than age, that create the perception that older partners are shown the door in a disproportionate manner. Could be their performance, could be their availability, could be something else we don't know about... we are not them.

My belief is that even though there may be perceived pockets of injustice, overall the Starbucks Machine is not directing its leaders to systematically eradicate older partners for the sole reason that they are old, or making too much money, or tarnishing Starbucks hip image.

If there IS a "cleansing" going on in California then I can assure you that the right people will move in to correct the situation because it is illegal, but it is not a corporate wide initiative. It may just be a young manager trying to show initiative a bit too aggressively.

"We do not see things the way they are, we see things the way WE are"... perception is reality and everyone's perception is different so everyone's reality is different. Your conclusions of reality are not the same as anyone else... understand that and you will see the world a whole lot clearer.

Seek enlightenment and self improvement every day my friends. Life should be a journey of self discovery.

[check the labor laws for exempt classification]

The federal labor laws say you can be classified exempt under certain circumstances, administrative being one of them, managing the store Our time is spent doing very little admin and 75% floor and thats not concidered adminstrative and should be paid for hours worked over 40, salaried of not.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Melody,
Unforunately, I can't share the video directly with you since its on the Partner Version of MSI. However, it seems that Cliff Burrows is IMPLYING that we are not to brew non-PPR coffee after 12 PM, even if customers request it. I say again, PPR is the only all day coffee. Starbucks is no longer catering to the customer's wishes but more focused on being cheap. Again, Melody, I wish to state my profound apologies. However, battles and wars may be won, but there will always be rebels leading the resistance. Because if we stand for something.

When cries for help go unanswered
And signal fires just burn and burn
We wonder if we're waiting here for nothing
Our lips are sewn our ears are filled
With the constant drone of the unfulfilled
But we'll never fall if we stand for something
We stand for something

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
PRIMUS INTER PARES
STARBUCKS REBEL ALLIANCE
AIM SN: BOSTONSTARREBEL

[Melody]

Boston Starbucks Rebel, I appreciate your thoughts on this. I cannot understand this push to become a one coffee coffeehouse. I guess they're gambling it's going to be more profitable in the long run.

If only there were plenty of indie coffee houses that roasted coffees closer to the signature Starbucks roast. I'm not a fan of a "city roast."

Webmaster-Jim: Is there any chance we could get a thread about the new Cliff Burrows video announcing that Pike Place Roast is the designated coffee for Starbucks?

Thanks.

[Bouncing Barista]

Which thread is the video on in the Partner MSI?

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Its under the Blog.

[MacPat MacNerr]

if someone were to say... access Partner MSI using their Mac... said person could easily poach the Flash vid from said site and put a version on the YouToob

[Sumatra Sunny]

We haven't been told anything at our store regarding a discontinuation of bold brew. However, we sell quite possibly more bold than PPR, and I know at least when I'm on POS that I always ring up "Morning Pick" rather than just plain "Brewed."

Then again, maybe we haven't heard about it because my store doesn't have a Store Manager. Literally.

[dont violate company rules]

Soliciting an employee to violate company rules may earn you a subpoena.

[EXLiSM]

Hey Melody,
It's about time you took a few days off of the Kool-Aid. Your constant "look-on-the-bright-side" take on everything is only going to sting that much more when your number comes up. Trust me, ALL golden children will be made a memory.

[Melody]

EXLiSM: I think you've missed a number of my posts given what you've written there. Let me recap in very short form:
5/16/09 - 9:15 am. No bold coffee at Starbucks. Melody irritated & has to jump through hoops to get coffee. "At this store, we only brew Pike Place Roast."
That afternoon, she goes to an indy house.

5/17/09 - 12:30 pm - good Starbucks experience. Sumatra through the Clover.

5/19/09 - Hears news via SG that Cliff Burrows has made a video strongly implying that the preferred or "chosen" customers are those that like PPR. It another stab at brew on demand & coffee drinkers who like the core coffee line up.

5/20/09 - Even my boyfriend is complaining to me that he could only get PPR at 6 am in the morning! LOL

I'm kinda pissed off. I started an MSI thread that was in response to the Cliff Burrows video.

http://mystarbucksidea.force.com/ideaView?id=087500000005O5rAAE

Despite that the weather is beautiful in Seattle, life is not all that sunny for me at Starbucks. Are you confusing me with someone else? We've had a rash of events from 5/16 to 5/20 which are downright annoying. What part of this do you interpret as "happy"? Can you not hear my total annoyance as I write this?

[ExLISM]

My apologies....