Starbucks says it didn't take "Tall" off menus to steer customers to higher-priced items

Okay, if that's what they say. This already has been discussed here, but I wanted to get Starbucks' explanation posted. || Read "Starbucks shortens menu by removing 'tall'"
> This suggests to customers that only larger, more expensive sizes are available

Comments

[CarlNatale]

That's pretty good. Cutting back on the clutter. Wouldn't it be more minimalist to cut bigger words like "grande?"

But there's a science behind making menus. And Starbucks is doing this for that reason. (But I don't think it's as simple as leave out the cheaper products.) Can we really blame Starbucks for creating a menu that maximizes sales?

I would like to hear from pricing and menu experts on the rationale behind this.

[Coffee Drinker]

Several times in the years I've patronized SBUX I asked for a smaller coffee and was told there wasn't one, that "Tall" is the smallest. There was a Starbucks in Tucson that, one day when I said, "I wish you had a smaller drip size" did indeed give me a small cup, and charged less.

I'm glad to see the cat out of the bag, that there is indeed a "short" size that's smaller than tall. I'll be ordering it from now on and if the baristas give me the run around I'll nicely educate them. Thanks Starbucks.

The moral of the story for the question re menu shortening is, eventually, new baristas will be hired who don't know the smaller sizes, just as many don't know about short. So Starbucks will sell bigger sizes, that people can't drink all of, but Starbucks makes the $ for regardless.

The least they could do is have fine print on the menus "smaller sizes available."

[Christinschu]

except for 99% of starbucks menus STILL have tall on them! The only ones that don't are DRIVE THRU!!!

[Doppio Con Karma]

thats also only on the exterior signage. interior still has the full menu.

@ Coffee Drinker, the sky is not falling, new baristas will be trained on the pos that shows all 4(5 in test markets) sizes.

So much ado about nothing.

[yerbamate]

Coffee Drinker... why would a new barista not know the smaller sizes? The cups aren't kept in a secret safe. Everyone keep your pants on.

[BaristaNC]

This is really not a big deal...If you're inside the store and the barista grabs the tall cup, chances are they're grabbing from an area with all the cups readily available to mark for you. Ask for the smaller one! It's right there!

[Mrs. Tillinghamshackles]

Why would a barista ever give you the run around about the short?

[eh]

I'm surprised this is causing such an uproar.

I still find it more odd they had excluded creme base frappuccinos off the menu for longer than the past year.

You'd definitely hear, 'do you guys still have that pink icee drink?' or 'ummm, can i still buy that chocolate double frappe?' over someone asking for a size barely ordered to begin with through a drive-thru.

[Yup.]

1% of stores are DT? In my region Id guess it to be closer to 85% and closer to 95% of you eliminate the few right in downtown of cities..

[livin' la VIA loca]

shock & yawn. c'mon people we've all been on this merry go round before...it is the same ride- and guess what? Like always it is for the benefit of STOCKHOLDERS not customers or employees.

Remember fiscal year start/end is coming soon...so this means in another few months SBUX will announce on Morning Joe (who of course will agree with their sponsor):

"More Sbux customers are ordering LARGER size drinks!!!"

Thus the recession is not hurting Sbux at all! Come to our stores and get your Venti today! And buy our stock too! For every season...spin, spin spin...

Meanwhile behind all the smoke & mirrors, Sbux stockholders don't see how in the down economy in the heartland:

Sbux is NOT better examining its store portfolio and wisely (and cheaply) buying real estate and looking closely at strong and growing locations- esp. cafe' only stores-in this recession that need to be invested in for the long term with renovations/upsizing or even transforming them into drive-thrus.

And how Sbux is once again behind the breakfast 8-ball and not having/adding enough stores with warming, as Subway & BK add/revamp their menus (guess we don't mind if they steal our customers since they serve Seattle's Best?) and McD's makes another new push...let's see Oatmeal (which in many Sbux stores is the only hot food option) for $1.99 there or $2.60 here plus that only available in Grande drink?

I say next time Howard visits your store put his doppio macc in a Venti cup!

[The X-Barista]

This really is not an issue, I worked for the company for three years and just because the tall size was removed from the drive thru menu, it doesn't mean you cannot order it. Short sizes have always been around because that size its used for kids drinks and espresso shots. If it is not on the menu, you can still order it, just like all the frapps, and all the different flavor combos you could create. you can add protein to and frapp, and there is and array of drink combos that you can create that have never been on the menu. This is really not and issue.

[I.Heart.Spirit]

Was I the only one who was really hoping the pumpkin spice pump would ollow suit and be like the caramel brûlée and toffee mocha pumps?

Speaking of hoping, please let there be full leaf Joy tea this holiday. Would be so delish!

[baristamclane]

Apparently on my day off, a disgruntled customer came into our cafe, brandishing a copy of that very same article, demanding the supervisor to explain why we took the tall size off of the drive-thru menu. Let's break it down for him/her:

First of all, look up at the menu (since you are still in the cafe). Holy cow! You mean the tall size is there?

Second, if you don't order a tall, and come into the cafe only, then why is this even an issue, seeing as it does not affect your purchase?

*facepalm*

@I.Heart.Spirit--I was just contemplating the same thing. Joy tea is amazing!

[ncsm]

Some Starbucks partners need to once in awhile make the effort to see things from the CUSTOMER's perspective. Most customers don't appreciate being played for fools. If Starbucks really eliminated the tall option from the DT menu to reduce "visual clutter" rather than, as most folks suspect, to encourage upselling, they could have easily gotten rid of numerous slower selling items. Every other fast food (and yes--Starbucks has become a fast food operation!)company has their small sizes listed on their menu boards. It may seem like a small matter, but this is yet another move that calls into question this company's integrity.

[lb]

@Coffee Drinker
@Mrs. Tillinghamshackles

Sometimes the short isn't an option. I work at a Barnes and Noble and we don't carry it (along with child's sizes). I don't know about other licensed stores (airports, supermarkets) but it certainly could be possible that they didn't have it.

[Coffee Drinker]

Thanks Mrs. T., this was in licensed stores, "real" Starbucks, a place I've enjoyed for over 20 years ; )

Baristas don't know or remember everything, or have other matters on their mind, no doubt. Over time I've been told they wouldn't brew bold EVER after noon, even when I knew better; that they couldn't substitute Pike with an Americano or a plunged brew, that there was "no Christmas Blend" when I saw rows of it for sale in the store...etc.

And yes, I've seen the small cups right there, and in fact have asked for "one of those small cups" to dump some of my venti coffee in to cool it.

The point is that not every barista knows everything, some lie, some don't care, and some will do anything to accomodate. Like one in Conn. who forgot to give me a cup discount, and was so upset about it, he gave me a coupon!

I now live in a one SBUX town, and the inconsistency among baristas, even with my basic drip, is frustrating, but I deal with it. Unfortunately, the new manager is the worst, seeming to know or make up rules about things I've never heard or seen anywhere, lol. I was glad last week to remember my dollar tip for a $1.50 coffee wouldn't go to her, she poured it with great fuss...lol. I'll be kinder, do better. I'll get her to smile one day.

[C]

I don't see why this is such a big deal. So Starbucks wants their customers to buy bigger drinks, they operate to make money.
This in no way calls into question the companies integrity.

@ncsm- yes Starbucks is a fast food company now. But McDonald's doesn't offer pretty much every item on their menu board in three sizes, just drinks. So, yes, when every board is crammed with three sizes, it necessarily requires a certain size text to fit it all in along with the number of total items to fit on a board. So the whole idea that they took it off to reduce clutter makes perfect sense. Although we do all know that reason was secondary to trying to get people to buy bigger drinks. No question of integrity, just a business acting like a business.

[NorCal *former shift*]

Hmm. "Starbucks...just another fast food company now."

Don't remember THAT slogan from my training. Is it part of their new advertising push? Does management want their baristas to repeat it when handing off drinks?

[Mrs. Tillinghamshackles]

I've never seen a licensed store that doesn't carry short cups. Barnes and Noble Cafe's aren't licensed stores. They "Proudly Brew" Starbucks coffee.

[Coffee Drinker]

Mrs. T, I referred to "real" Starbucks stores. I confused the issue by adding "licensed" I don't mean barnes and noble, Target, airports. I mean stand-alone Starbucks stores. As you say they all have the cups. I won't explain it all again ; )

As for business vs integrity. Being in business is no excuse to deliberately confuse customers so they spend more money, or to lie to them, or to cheat them. And whatever a person does for "business" in these regards, they practice in their daily lives, and that's what's wrong with the world! lol.

[Mrs. Tillinghamshackles]

Oh, I'm sorry Coffee Drinker, my reply wasn't directed at you, it was directed at lb. I should've been more clear :)

[DoubleShotOnIce]

This all comes down to 1 thing: EDUCATED CONSUMERS. Nobody can pull the wool over anybody's eyes if they take the time to shop around, ask questions, and make the BEST CHOICE FOR THEM. Jesus, I get so frustrated with people who get angry over things they have control over.

[Melody]

@MrsTillinghamShackles - Long time no see my friend. I've seen problems at airport locations, that don't have short cups, but that's about it. It's not a secret size, and it's no big deal. :)

[Coffee Drinker]

The one thing it comes down to is not believing everything a barista says, says their manager says, thinks they know, and refuses to be informed of any differently.

It remains amusing to me how many ways the various SBUX in the U.S. and other countries I've been to can mess with a simple drip coffee, no room.

Obviously, I'm an SBUX loyalist and these aren't complaints, but sharing of info. Be well!

[bored]

bottom line: it is a business...and if you don't like how it's run do not be a consumer of that business...simple. Don't begrudgingly drag your ass to a store and make a fuss over something that barista's clearly don't have a say in. If you want to show your dissastifaction go somewhere else and maybe the company will start to make some changes. But nothing will change if people just bitch while still pulling out their wallets.

[ash_sk8s]

I worked at a licensed store (airport) and we did NOT carry short cups. We did have it on our pos though, so we offered to make a short in a tall and charge for it as such.

[Mike]

If you, as a customer, get so "confused" by a menu that you get "tricked" into spending more money, should you even be allowed out of the house without adult supervision?

C'mon! Has it really gotten to the point where the public is so stupid, uneducated, and dumb that they cannot figure out what size drink to order? And, if it is THAT difficult for you, decide on what you want BEFORE going into the store...don't even look at the menu boards...save everyone a lot of frustration and time...

[sinistersumatra]

I claim full responsability! It is part of my evil plot to confound customers and eventually take over the world! Bwwaahhahahahahahahahah.

[Old Timer]

New sbux customers who go to a drive thru will think the sizes listed are only ones available.

And some restaurants and stores get snarky when one asks for something not listed on the menu.

Starbucks is it's own culture. I have a friend who doesn't like to go there without me; she finds the menus confusing and is insecure about not knowing the lingo. She wouldn't question sizes. This is a smart person and successful... But a bux newbie. We old timers remain undaunted and enjoy the evolution.

[Mike]

Anyone intimidated or confused by a fast food joint deserves what they get.

[ncsm]

Sure, ordering from a fast food--I mean Starbucks, menu--isn't rocket science, but why does this company seem to go out of it's way to needlessly complicate the process for it's customers? I don't get it. Others have better coffee (Peets, Tullys, practically everyone else), others offer faster service and better price value (just about everyone!). Whats that leave Starbucks? It used to be nicer cafes and higher caliber baristas. Visit a half dozen or so Starbucks in your neighborhood today and you're likely to find dirty cafes in serious need of maintenance, as well a majority (though by no means all) of baristas who could care less about getting your order right, much less about connecting with you and sincerely trying to crteate a true third place environment. For this I fault the company for driving out so many dedicated, knowledgable baristas over the past two years and replacing them with warm bodies at a lower pay rate. If any food service deserves to fall and fall hard, it's Starbucks!

[Judy]

Here in Cambridge, MA, the iced menu lists only three sizes - grande, venti, and trenta

[Ex-Customer]

*NOTHING* done in marketing is done without the intent to steer people toward spending more money.

Nothing.

If they are running out of space on the menu and they honestly want to represent what they have, they'll use a slightly smaller typeface, or print bigger boards, or remove the images.

Anyone who things a corporation has it's customers best interests in mind is fooling themselves.

Just remember Low-Fat = Double-Calories. (But low-fat *DOES* look so much better/trendy on the menu doesn't it?)

[Ex-Customer]

NSCM - I agree with you whole-heartedly. All of the "improvements" (new drinks, fancy automatic espresso machines) have done nothing for quality of the product, but they do one thing really well.

They allow Starbucks to hire idiots off the street, pay them minimum wage, treat "partners" (what a joke) like crap, and then manufacture reasons to cut hours / fire the people who have dedicated a decade or more of their lives to what used to be considered a fine art.

Starbucks = McDonalds - It's crap, but it's at least predictable crap.

WaWa makes better coffee and sells it for 1/2 the price.

[Ex-Customer]

Last one for the night -

The worst thing you can do for any company is allow them to become publicly traded. The minute the stockholders are involved the money makes the decisions.

It has been said (I'm paraphrasing) that a business that puts it's customers first will have one major problem.

The fact that starbucks has had to resort to closing stores is proof positive that they have forgotten this one basic tenant of business. The profit margin and the bottom line are more important than the customers they serve.

Pity.

Too many customers.

[Ex-Customer]

(Reposted due to a bad cut/paste)

Last one for the night -

The worst thing you can do for any company is allow them to become publicly traded. The minute the stockholders are involved the money makes the decisions.

It has been said (I'm paraphrasing) that a business that puts it's customers first will have one major problem.

Too many customers.

The fact that starbucks has had to resort to closing stores is proof positive that they have forgotten this one basic tenant of business. The profit margin and the bottom line are more important than the customers they serve.

Pity.

[formerpartner]

Right, Ex Customer, because there wasn't any particular NATIONWIDE ECONOMIC CRISIS that may have had something to do with store closures.

[Current Partner]

Starbucks is in the luxury item market, so we got hit a little bit harder than most fast food businesses (normal vs. inferior goods for those who know economics). And the sad fact of the matter is that we are in the business of making money like all for-profit businesses. Probably like the companies most of you work for. Yeah, this means that Starbucks isn't a saint, looking out for the good of the people.

As for the employees, there are still those of us who care, and we're all human beings, just like you. We may be a bit sparser. We may be a worn a bit thinner from labor cutbacks at the beginning of the largest recession the US has seen since the Depression. We may be dealing with more pressure to sell from on high than we've seen before. We may be dealing with more disgruntled customers who feel overly entitled (which I'm not pointing at anyone here, I'm just saying in general). But we're still trying, and trying to bring up a new generation as best we can. Please bear with us. (And a hint, we generally group up a little bit in particular stores)