Starbucks is updating drive-thru menus to say TALL drinks are still available

The announcement was made Tuesday afternoon on Twitter.

Comments

[(former) NJ_newbie]

Maybe I'm just cranky today...but I've never been more certain that while persons are intelligent, PEOPLE are f'ing dumb.

[nycbearista]

Is this them realizing that an attempt at market manipulation didn't work?

OR

Is this them realizing that this sort of action - however innocent - would result in a lot of backlash?

Either way it was an expensive mistake and Either way it doesn't make them look good. The company comes across as conniving or stupid. C'mon guys, you're better than that.

[KLatte]

I agree with NJ_newbie. This is so NOT a big deal.

[Jim Romenesko]

It's not?

What would happen if McDonald's took the simple cheeseburger off the menu and kept the higher-priced Quarter Pounder and Big Mac? People would question that, too.

Remember that EVERYTHING Starbucks does is put under the microscope, examined and written up in the press. The company hates it when stuff like this happens, and loves it when they do things like close stores for three hours for "espresso training" and get millions in free publicity.

Bottom line: the company should have expected this brouhaha -- especially in tough times when people are scaling back.

[Sheik]

^ Agree with Jim !

[harmaa]

My company is run by the most inconsistent morons ever.

Now if only they'd listen to customers about Pike.

[formerpartner]

I think what is wrong about the situation is that Starbucks caved, to be honest with you. Jim, I couldn't disagree with you more on this, and I usually find you to pretty spot-on. Whether you agree or not, there is debate as to whether that customer who is scaling back and clogging the drive-thrus to order a tall coffee is truly a desireable customer. Perhaps Starbucks may decide, for once, to define who our customer is, and start marketing towards them, instead of throwing everything up against a wall to see what sticks. I don't go to Nordstroms looking for $9.99 racks because I know that's not on brand, or the customer base they want to attract. I DO go to Nordstroms because they stand behind their products with a strong return policy, I get wonderful service, and to be candid- I feel a sense of belonging there.

I may get some heat for this, as on face value it may imply that I am not supporting "diversity" (as though a diverse customer base makes for a smart business model). You piss off the customers who spend 3-5x the amount of a tall coffee per average ticket by long lines, and then you're back to marketing to the lowest common denominator.

Think Big Lots.

[name]

@Jim romenesko
Your analogy is flawed, taking away the cheeseburger is not the same as taking away tall size, your analogy would suggest that starbucks took a drip coffee out and left a white mocha, a better analogy would be if mcdonalds took of its small size of fountain drink and left only its medium and large, this is not a big deal so stop trying to make jim just because you don't want to look dumb on your own website

[tall guy]

To another posters point from before: Other companies have already done this (not shown every available size/product on menu boards) including Wendy's.

Additionally, have you every been to an in&out burger? Most of the food they sell is not listed on ANY of their menus. You simply order what you want and that's what you get.

Do you also know that Jamba Juice has a secret menu that has older drinks that are no longer featured? If you order one of those drinks there is a 50 cent charge on top of the price of the drink? And do you think they post that 50 cent charge anywhere? NO!

Get over it.

[Crema_the_crop]

I'm glad they're wasting time "fixing" things like this, instead of, oh, I don't know,

IMS!?!?!?!?

(inventory management system)

It's okay. Still working on my 7 cases of Blackberry HINT water.

[competent_manager (viva la via)]

@crema_the_crop
maybe if you learned how to use IMS correctly you would not be working on 7 cases of Blackberry HINT...Just sayin.

Is anyone complaining that the Lemon Loaf is not on the new menu board? (no, they just ask if we still have it) I think a lot of the trouble comes from no communication regarding the changes and Barista's having no clue how to handle questions. I do not believe this is a big issue, but the way it's been handled at the store level and the way it was communicated to partners was a fail.

[Hipsterdufus]

Don't jump on Creama_the_crop!

You can be as competent as possible on IMS and it will screw you over!

It is well documented that IMS will ship you it's suggest order EVEN when you approved an edited order.

Several times IMS has re-push suggested orders to the store AFTER stores already edited their order. IMS assumes its new re-pushed order is more accurate and it wipes out what you suggested. In these cases you could still edit the 'new' suggested order, too bad they were pushed out around 10am after most stores already had edited and only 1 hour before the dead line and during peak, when no one would think to run to the back to check

Yes having a competent shift team who all participate in the ordering process and an SM/ASM team who follow through and hold people accontable will improve IMS order accuracy, but getting 7 cases of Hint water, or 22 packs of Banana walnut bread are not always unavoidable situations.

[ncsm]

Contrary to how some posters feel, this WAS a big deal. Just look at the amount of negative press that Starbucks drew with this little "marketing" stunt. The company had to go into damage control mode almost immediately and after only a few days threw in the towel and announced that they would reinstall the tall on the DT menu. One can debate endlessly the pros and cons of having talls on the menu, but the simple fact is that once again, Starbucks has shown itself to be a company that acts first and thinks second. This is how it's done in the bush leagues folks!

[spence]

Customer: "Um, do you still have talls?"
Me: "Certainly, would you like one?
Customer: "Yes, please. blah blah blah"

Problem solved.

[livin' la VIA loca]

I agree w/Jim R. And this just shows once again how decisions made @ SSC are NOT in touch w/customers or customer focused!

The old rule of thumb is 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. So for Sbux's 20% (i.e. gold card holders) most of them order the same drink, same size ALMOST every time- so these types of changes will not concern them much.

However for that other 80% of customers who we are trying to grow their 20% of business (hence the push this month to purchase & REGISTER a Sbux gift card for payment!) these are newbies!!!
Has anyone @ SSC ever even seen a new customer try to order off our menu and struggle with it?

So yes simpler is better but not when you're removing common, familiar terms (like a small size) that are comfortable!

Plus, when trying to turn that 80% non-regular customer base into repeat business- esp. in a drive thru line when most customers are not going to return a drink they don't like- they are hesitant to try a medium or large size at first "Well if I don't like it at least I didn't spend that much on a big one"

And if they don't see a lower price point/little size option (like Jim says- esp. in today's economy) they will just drive away and be welcomed as the next regular at the McCafe. The clown is laughing at us now...

[latteteadah]

First, as to whether the person ordering a tall at a drive thru is "desireable" - what kind of illogical thinking is that? Any paying customer is a desireable customer, period. The regular who orders a tall drip each workday morning vs. the quarente-mocha-frapp-o-rino every other week - who brings in more revenue?

That just illustrates the more global problem with drive-thru mentality in general - the customer is expected to know what they want before they even pull up to the posted menu. Why put a menu board up at all?

I realized this after having intestinal surgery, I went from being a regular drive-thru customer (of all types) to not wanting or needing fast food at all for a few years. Gradually gone back to a few places and it's like crossing borders in the European Union - if you don't speak the ever-changing lingo at each different place, you're treated as an alien. People get impatient if you ask for a few seconds to look at the board. What is it there for?

Either list what you truly have on the menu for ALL of your customers, or just jump the shark and take the menu down altogether and demand that the only people in the drive-thru lane are the pre-decided.

Was a bad marketing choice, plain and simple. Even for Wendy's. It's about revenue, not about space-saving or streamlining materials. The chains can't any longer get away with offering larger sizes for more margin because of the health backlash, so they try another tactic. Only the naive wouldn't see it.

[Venti Urnex Latte]

This is the same stunt as omitting the short size from the menu. A lot of people prefer a short to a tall espresso drink because the espresso is less dilute. And sometimes a 16 oz grande with 2 shots is too much, whereas an 8 oz short with 1 shot is just right.

Notice that Starbucks didn't take the venti size off the menu boards. That would have been just as easy as taking the tall size off.

[Shifted]

@nycbearista (way up the page, sorry): "C'mon guys, you're better than that."

Yeah, not really true anymore. They're every bit as bad as that.

[GrassIsAlwaysGreener]

@former partner. Kudos for calling it like it is. There is a certain cost associated with the running the drive thru and if getting people to spend more by removing cheaper items helps that, then what's the problem?

$10 that the same people who are complaining about the company trying to squeeze out their last dime by migrating them toward larger drinks also smoke $30 worth of cigarettes a week or drink down $50 in booze. 5 days of grande coffe instead of tall = about $1.85

[Noah]

Thank God!! Now, I can sleep nights.

[baristamclane]

Every facet of this menu nonsense makes me laugh.

[Jazz]

@latteteadah and livin' la VIA loca

I COMPLETELY AGREE any paying customer is a valuable customer. New customers may not feel comfortable with trying a drink in larger sizes. I know that's how I order at new places; I try the smaller size and work my way up. A Starbucks menu is confusing enough for a new customer; we don't even say "small, medium, and large." I'm glad they're putting tall back on the menu so everyone knows it's still available and is less confused and more comfortable with the menu. It may not seem like a lot but I think it is. Plus what about calorie intake, you may have a "more valuable" customer who is now on a diet or has come up with a disease (like diabetes) and has to watch their calorie and sugar intake. There is just no reason for it not to be listed on the menu and too many reasons for it to be listed on the menu.

[ncsm]

Sure there are costs associated with running a DT--but there are also costs in the cafe section as well. Should Starbucks remove the tall from the inside menu as well? What the hell--why not try to save a ton of $ and just eliminate ALL menus? That's the crazy logic that some posters are following.

[formerpartner]

The logic that most of you are using is that that 100 customers purchasing items at a 10% profit equals the same revenue as 50 customers purchasing items at a 20% profit. While this is true from a top line perspective, it demonstrates the lack of sound experience and knowledge baristas, and other partners in general are displaying.

A brand can't just look at top line sales, again goes back to my argument of Big Lots and Nordstroms.

My point has to do with the clientele that Starbucks hopes to attract, based on market research into purchasing habits.

If Starbucks were to provide a place where service was fantastic, DT speeds were 3 min or under, quality of beverage was accurate over time, and average ticket was significantly profitable, then steps could be taken to offer a product line that catered to that demographic.

We can't be all things to all people. That dillutes the brand, which is the fight Starbucks has been facing for the past 4 years. Now, given the significant economic impacts that have occurred outside of Starbucks control, some would say they had to do what they had to do in these times. Looking back, it's part of why many partners left the company, only to realize that this wasn't a starbucks problem (as it felt in 2007) it was more wide-scale.

So now, Starbucks faces the task of getting back on brand.

I could be taking this much further than the debate about taking tall off the menu, but wanted to demonstrate the lack of strategic thinking of some partners on this thread.

[karly]

Is anyone using IMS yet? I'm wondering now, we don't use do a seattle order anymore? all the skus are there and suggested daily as needed?

[competent_manager (viva la via)]

so wait 7 cases of Hint Blackberry is a bad thing? haha i apologize i did not know about these phantom IMs readjustments. haven't had any of that at my store...must be a lucky one. I have just been telling people that they can only have a tall if they buy a 12pack of Via...they can get a short if they buy 2 :)

[competent_manager (viva la via)]

@karly
we have been using IMS for a couple months. You still do your RP order, it's just done thru IMS. It will come up the day it is due and have a cutoff time. Ours is 2pm. It will automatically compile a "suggested" order based on sales and current inventory. Not very accurate "suggested" orders though. I completely disregard mine "suggested" orders. All the sku's and stuff are there. You can search items by description as well. Pretty good system in theory if it all gets worked out.

[karly]

oooooh, sounds like this could get pretty frustrating pretty fast! Thanks for the response.

[spence]

Most of the syrups have a 30 day shelf life when opened. TM and PS have 14 days. Even though we go through these bottles daily or close to it, we are supposed to date them every time we open them. Do other stores do this? Quite frankly, it only takes a few minutes a day but I no longer have those few minutes.

[jake]

In IMS, do we have enter markouts at the end of everyday???

[spork]

We were part of the test market for the new drive thru menu boards over the summer in Dallas/Fort Worth. There was no "tall" size designated on them and for the first week people asked about it, but after that there were no problems. That was the reason they rolled with it nation wide. I don't understand why this is considered "news worthy" in the press.

[spence]

@Jake,
Yes, you mark out on the IMS at the end of the day. The morning shift should print a copy of the daily markout and post it near the pastry case. Every time you sample or discard an item, it gets logged on the markout sheet. At the end of the day, go into the computer under operations then IMS, you will find the markout form to be filled out. Save it. Approve it. Your'e done.

[Doppio Con Karma]

Got the sticker today, looks tacky as all get out

[Mike]

I, for one, and totally believe that Starbucks customers cannot figure out how to order the size of beverage they want. For years, baristas have had to use their superhuman ESP to get any sort of idea as to what these morons are actually ordering. Not having the tall size listed on the drive through menu will only hone barista's mind-reading capabilities to a razor sharp level!

[JavaJunk]

Tallz ballz!! Ha ha I feel bad for the dt baristas who would have had to hear the same annoying question by the picky tall drink customer, 'uhmm I want a uhmmm.. Don't you have tall sizes anymore.. Fred do you see a tall up there? .. What? No I'm not ready, I wanted a quad tall 6 pump vanilla no foam xh caramel machiatto. Oh you still have tall sizes.. Oh can you put that in a grande cup? Thanks' .. Queue next customer 'do you still have tall sizes?'.. 1 month later and starbucks will have wasted how much money to pay baristas to answer the same question? Not to mention the annoyed customers who had to wait longer because dorkus mcgee can't find the tall size in his annoying diesel that's so loud you can't even hear yourself fart.. :D hmmm starbucks cave in or just want more profit and less talk.

[Tifftgee]

If you know what you drink or eat at Starbucks....who cares if its not on the menu...most of their items are custom....I never look at the menu;)