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October 12, 2010


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Current Partner

We're not quite being told to "slow down." I seriously doubt they'd ever tell us anything that could be taken as contradicting "Speed of Service" requirements. We've just got the latest round of being told the "correct" way of doing our job. The faster veterans will probably take some of the good stuff (like steaming limited amounts of milk) and toss the rest. That's just kind of how the "Better Way" stuff kinda works. There's always something (sometimes a lot) good to be found in it. It could be a good thing for new people, though. A consistent way of teaching rookies a faster way.


We've started using the new 'routine' and it's been super slow. Our DT times are supposed to be 30 seconds and when the bar barista was working during the rush working on two drinks at a time, we were averaging 5 minutes at the DT. It's hard because the bar person takes the drink from start to finish, adding time where we used to be able to help and set up drinks, start steaming milk, etc. It's horrible, we had so many complaints answered with 'sorry! we're introducing a new drink system and just getting used to it'. Generally, it seems DT customers are coming to get a quick coffee and are willing to sacrifice a little quality if they can hurry on their merry way.
Our shifts have gone through the training and many are quicker using their own bar techniques. Our DM ignored the overall slower times and noted how the drinks were finished 'more consistent', a drink every 30 seconds versus 1 drink in 30 seconds then two 15 seconds later.

miss robot barista

it is just the bux's way of micro managing all of the partners...we already look alike and talk alike and act alike...and this is a company that used to embrace it's diversity

A Non eMoose

Why make this company-wide and pretend that it will work everywhere? Why not ease it into stores/regions that are already being consistently dinged for terrible drinks or slow service? No, instead of raising the lower stores, let's just bring everyone to the same mediocre level. Way to keep those customers happy. For the record, I'm not using this silly bullcrap. I have never once received a complaint for my drinks tastes or speed, and I'll be damned if I'm going to have a crowd of angry customers late for work or school because of a new unnecessary system.


It still confuses and outrages me that everything Howard complained about in 2007 about what was wrong with the company has now been embraced by Schultz with all the echos man-behind-the-curtain level-pulling madness.

*Stinky breakfast sandwiches? Relaunched, briefly made into combo meals, pictures of sammies replace whole bean menu.
*Espresso excellence? Nah., foggettaboutit.
*CD spinners? clutter? "Would you like some popcorn/braised nuts/jelly beans/potato chips/oat bar/fruit peels with your coffee?"
*Getting back to our coffee heritage? Banana smoothies. Oatmeal. VIA.
*Innovating? Shoving instant coffee down the throats of everyone who walks in the door, and grinning from ear to ear about all the revenue to be gained from hawking $1 packs of sugar and coffee crystals as a premium product.
*Romance? Theater? Follow steps 1, 2, and 3, hand off, repeat, LEAN, cadence, programmed, robot, do as I say, get em in get em out, hut two three. Crank up the assembly line. March em out two three four.

I might even venture to say that Jim Donald would be ashamed, and that's saying something.


It works, if you actually give it a chance, and do it right. Yes, you only make two drinks at a time.

However! There are no wasted moments... and that is why it works.

I understand why it bothers people, many people including myself had been doing it a different way for literally years. However, if you really do it the way it is supposed to be done, and you really give it a shot and get it down right, it works.

Let me give a bit more detail on the why, I mentioned no wasted moments, thats because you are always doing something every moment to prepare a drink. Every moment you have while something is happening for that first drink, where it doesn't require you, such as the milk finishing steaming and shots still pulling, you are preparing stuff for your second drink. Before your second drink is finished, during every moment you are not doing something for that second drink, you are preparing stuff for that third drink. If you do this right, you do not waste a second and yes, it works.

Why are wait times slower right now? Because people are not used to the system yet. There will be slower wait times at first, because yes right now people are faster with the methods they are used to using, because they are more comfortable and efficient with that method right now. Once they get used to this new way, they will be just as fast or faster, it just takes time.

Saying it doesn't work because things are slower when people haven't adjusted to it yet is silly.

Oh, but Starbucks is not telling barista's to "slow down" rather they are basically telling them to speed up. They want to make sure not a single moment on bar is not spent making drinks and the main bar person is going to be working very hard. It's tough on the back, shift managers pay attention to that, if you have two people on bar and it's busy, rotate them regularly.


I'm open to the new routine but I do have a few concerns.
You use only one primary machine all day means that is getting the most use and will tend to wear out more. It's the same with only brewing one one side from open till noon with the L.E.A.N. cadence.
Does this system really work better when you get an order for 20 kids hot chocolates at one time, I work next to a ball field and this is reality during season on a Saturday morning. 20 separate pitchers?
If the labor is given to have enough employees sheduled to make it happen the way it is taught, it works. If not then the register person having to grind and brew every 8 mins, grind whole bean #'s, warm sandwiches, bag pastries, rinse pitchers, mark cups just does seems that their focus is on just the customers. That is of course with the majority of the day having only two employees on at a time. It's as though they had an after thought of "since we took away the labor in 2008/2009, we need to figure out how to make it work".

On another topic, I found this to be quite amusing. The tech sent out to fix our primary machine(even though it was just PM'd 2 months ago) was a former Sbux employee now working for a contracted company. He told us that the original black, round, hard plastic handles for the Mastrena machine were actually replaced for the shiny, cheap plastic, easily broken handles we have now because it matched the handle on the gearshift of Howard's Aston Martin. He didn't have one to replace the one currently broken on the second machine so that is why the subject came up during his repairs. Just thought I would share that.

So Halloween/Holidays are fast approaching and a new fiscal year has begun, any more word about "partner survey" comments? I don't have any scheduled time to get on the portal other than to except or print out an invoice so I haven't seen any memos. Just curious.


I like the new system, as I mentioned, but if I got an order for 20 kids hot chocolates at once I would start steaming milk for 5-6 at a time. Then I would steam a pitcher on the other side as well for 5-6 at a time, until they were finished. Sometimes you have to use your best judgment and throw the system out the window. Better way isn't always the best way in every situation.


What a dumb article. We aren't being told to "slow down." The new beverage routine is actually intended to increase speed of service... and it does! If you are honestly going slower during rushes, you're doing it wrong or you aren't getting adequate barista support.


The problem with all these "better way" (aka LEAN) initiatives is that the LEAN methodology was originally intended for factories. In a factory, so long as all the machines are running smoothly, everything that is outside the control of the workers runs at one consistent pace, and there are no sudden changes. In a Starbucks however, the pace of drink orders is never constant, nor they type of drinks, people often don't order what they actually want, people come ask the bar partner for water, or for more cream at the condiment bar or whatever. This makes it impossible to really make a Starbucks like a factory (unless you want to run a store really poorly). There are some good pointers from the "better way" but to stringently require it to be followed to the letter all the time is ridiculous. If Starbucks wants to improve how their stores run, they can take some of the principles of LEAN and ADAPT them to the constantly dynamic environment that is Starbucks by actually sitting down with all partners, and teaching them the basics and principles of LEAN so they can look at their work environment themselves and decide for themselves how to work efficiently.

The truth is, workers already do this, because nobody wants to work more than they have to. Everyone is already looking for ways to be more efficient (and yes, sometimes cutting corners which corporations obviously don't want), but workers left to their own devices to find many many good ways to improve efficiency on their own (heck, you even see this on "Undercover Boss", at which point the bosses are always amazed that their lowly workers are capable of strategically improving efficiency). Some workers are better and finding new efficient ways than others. What Starbucks needs to do is instead of micromanaging and expecting stores to run like factories (which they can't because customers are not predictable like conveyor belts), they need to give all workers a few basic, adaptable lessons on finding better efficient ways that suit each workers' individual store layouts, customer base, etc.


@Waltie - Why doesn't it slow things down? I like the idea of handcrafted drinks, not mass-produced, but by reading the article it does sound like things will get slower. ??


We just aren't doing it at my store. The only time it ever happens is if the store manager is on the floor, and luckily for us, he never is. We run two person deployment a lot in the afternoon and evenings, and it just isn't worth killing ourselves over when the old way works perfectly fine for us.

Coffee Soldier

It doesn't get slowed...at first it was a challenge to reprogram your brain of the way you did things for years but once everyone embraced it and adopted it the drinks are going out quicker and better then they were before with less milk waste. It seems like in all these articles they always get comments from the union partners (cause those are the only ones who can talk to the media without getting fired) who take every opportunity to bash the company and then if repremanded cry to the union they are being bullied for being in the union. I love the new beverage repeatable routine and the best is that we have got 2 new partners who never even used the new way who seemed to pick up the bar process quicker by focusing only on 2 drinks at once.


"Why doesn't it slow things down? I like the idea of handcrafted drinks, not mass-produced, but by reading the article it does sound like things will get slower. ??"

That's because the writer doesn't know what he or she is talking about, since he or she doesn't work at Starbucks, hasn't gone through the training, and therefore isn't explaining or describing it correctly.

And the quote from Erik Foreman (who I've met and who is a very nice guy, but I question his motives) is wholly inaccurate. The new method does not "double the amount of time it takes to make drinks," in any cases, unless you are doing something wrong. That statement is absolutely, 100 % wrong, at least from everything I've seen in my store and from my partners. It doesn't necessarily make every drink faster, but to say that it doubles the amount of time for certain drinks is either a lie or the opinion of a barista who doesn't really understand how the new repeatable routine works.

And then there's a pointless quote from Tyler Swain (who I have not met -- but who is also a union member, surprise surprise) who admits that he hasn't even gone through the training yet.

This is a text book example of an article written by an ignorant "journalist" who is just using pointless and inaccurate quotes to support a misguided, completely illogical thesis.

And while Trina Smith may not be at liberty to offer any empirical data, I can offer my experience at a store level: Since we've been practicing and mastering the new routine, our drinks are flying off the bar. We were all nervous about it, and right after I went through the training I was confused and afraid of it... but now I can honestly say that this was the best decision Starbucks has made in years.

It works, speed of service increases, and drink quality has improved.


This dumb articles reminds of when Starbucks switched to brewing decaf on demand later in the day, and some "journalists" wrote stories about how Starbucks no longer had decaf coffee at all. Customers would come in all pissed and say things like, "I guess I have to get a hot chocolate because you no longer have decaf lattes."

Um... yeah, we do. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, people. Starbucks always had and always will have decaf coffee.

Or remember skinny lattes? Remember that stupid girl who posted a letter to this website giving all of her dumb reasons for why she woulnd't be using the new skinny term? Well, that turned out to be a pretty big hit, and I don't know anybody who regrets the introduction of skinny lattes. It saves time and makes things less confusing.

And the new drink routine makes things faster and ensures the drinks are better. And, no, I'm not "drinking koolade" or whatever certain idiots are always saying on this board. I thought shutting down the stores for espresso excellence training was stupid, pointless, and insulting to store partners, IMS is a terrible system with a lot of problems that don't seem to be getting worked out, and toffee mocha is bland.

But this new system works great.


Did anyone else have customers come in this morning and talk about this? Some of my customers sort of acted like theyd be the drink police and make sure that I was washing out my pitcher after each use. Dear customers reading this: please don't think it's ok to remind baristas what they're supposed to do. I can hear it now "I'm sorry, I read in the WSJ that you have to rinse out your pitcher after each drink and you didn't so please remake my drink"

Clark Kent


We started the new Routine a few weeks ago. The majority of my partners like it, and yes it is a bit slower in the beginning. HOWEVER, the time between drinks is now incredibly more CONSISTENT. There is an even pace and consistency to our beverage production, and less mistakes. Plus, our partners are using deployment way better.

I dont allow my partners to be robots, however, i encourage them to use common sense and make appropriate decisions as necessary. So if there is going to be "20 kids hot chocolates" in a row, then obviously I dont need my partners making them 1 at a time, hehe...

I could sit here all day with complaints about Schultz and the things this company does that are completely backwards, but I admit this new beverage routine is working well for my partners, and my customers! :)


Great...now I can get slower service to go along with the attitude--and higher prices to boot!

Clark Kent

@ ncsm:

Why do you go to Sbux then?


@Waltie and @Clark Kent - Well I will trust you that the new process is better and doesn't slow things down. I really don't have any way to say more. I'm not a bar barista, and I'm not even all that familiar with "Lean" type theory. My personal position is that I tend to support all moves that improve drink quality, so this sounds like a great move from that stand point. Glad to hear it is working in your stores.


I go in for the training tonight. I'm skeptical, but hopeful that this routine does actually work.


@Clark Kent...bad habits are tough to break.


Sitting in my local Bux listening to a customer chew out a barista for how long the drinks are taking. She tried to explain that a new system has been implemented to make the drinks more consistent but he was pretty unhappy.

It's also funny to hear ppl trying to push Sanka, I mean Via.


the routine is definitely slower. Parts of it are good (such as the order: milk, shots, syrups, finish) but any efficient barista knew to do that anyway. but you could use both bars to produce twice as many drinks at once and use the time while you are waiting for the machine to pour milk into pitchers and syrup cups down the line.

exhausted barista

It's so much faster to use 2 bars.


4.5 year partner. New routine makes me faster. 4.5 week partner. New routine makes him much faster.

It works if you follow it properly and then adapt to your store/reality.

I had a tenured shift come on the computer with me and we checked out our numbers. We had some of the best numbers (transactions per 30 mins and total cash) that we'd had in a while, and we both thought "Wow, it didn't even feel busy" because there was no lag on bar. It works.

Jason Coffee

Personally I think it would be very beneficial for quality in a coffee shop setting to have one person help each customer from start to finishing focusing on one drink at a time. That said in an environment like Starbucks where you have 50 plus people in line at any given time during a rush. Plus the fact that you are working on a puss button espresso machine, this seems like it would definitely create a speed of service issue if your goal is 3 min or less per customer.

1 person steaming milk for 10-15 drinks down the line and another doing syrups and shots makes the more sense to me for accuracy and speed of service. I want to be clear I say this only in the context of Starbucks.

Jason Coffee
Organo Gold Review

Doppio Con Karma

I really dig BR2, its a pretty logical order of doing things (milk, shots, syrup, fin) and I love having a legitimate way to train new partners on making drinks.
There will always be the freakish ADHD partners that can stay on top of a 20+ drink Queue and maintain quality and speed; but for the vast majority of people in this job it accords me a way to train and correct people on being efficient and putting out a good quality product.


We've adapted the BR2 system in our store, with the blessing of our manager, to allow for the bar support person to label cups and pump syrups. The Bar partner continues to follow the production order sans the syrup step, but not having to pump syrups allows them to look down the queue and pre-pour pitchers of milk for 2-3-4 drinks ahead of time. It's incredibly efficient this way (and has made me, a once non-believer, into a believer).

80 transactions in 30 minutes, drive store. Some of our highest numbers to date. It really just depends on having a good bar support person (and we have 5 partners on during peak: cafe, DTO, DTR, Bar, Bar support).

The ONLY negative is that, in the 6 or so weeks we've been doing this, our primary machine HAS been suffering -- 2 major repairs in 6 weeks (but we're still on old 801s).

James Connolly

Over eight years with the company, new routine makes me slower. Someone who got hired just before I did, new routine makes her slower. Someone who got hired a year after I did, new routine makes him slower. We just got a new hire, so we'll see if this helps her out any.

There's a couple of good ideas in the new system, but to be honest, my store's bar isn't set up to work really well with this. It's long and narrow, and means you have to run between the sink with the Frappuccino bidet and the bar to keep up any kind of momentum. As such, no one really follows it right now. Things might change at some point, but I really doubt it.

Sometimes policies can't be one size fits all.


"Over eight years with the company, new routine makes me slower."

Then you're not doing it right. I hate to sound like a jerk or like a broken record, but if you and everybody in your store is getting slower, then you are all not doing it correctly. Honestly, that's just the way it is.

Doppio Con Karma

@ James Connolly

"and means you have to run between the sink with the Frappuccino bidet and the bar to keep up any kind of momentum. "
The bar partner is running? if thats the case its wrong, your support should be doing that, if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, I'd love to be informed.

Coffee slave no more

I was a store manager with starbucks for 4 years and was a big fan of "better ways" My better way meant a better job with a better company. One that actually treated me with respect and dignity instead of just putting those words on a poster. If this new system makes things better for you, I'm glad. But personally, I am thankful everyday that I'm not breaking my back and abandoning my personal life and sanity to meet ever-changing and unreasonable expectations.

James Connolly

Of course, it's all our fault and not the fact that our store isn't designed to work with this. I mean, having the CBS and sink ten feet from the bar has nothing to do with potential slow downs, nor does having a narrow bar area that makes it impossible to move between people whenever someone's blending something while there's drinks to be made on the espresso machine.

You know precisely dick about how my store is set up, Waltie, so until you've tried using the new way at it or a store like it, don't instantly assume that we're doing it wrong.

James Connolly

@Doppio: Support partner would be running. If it's the bar partner, it'd be worse because the handoff plane is even further away from the sink. Like I said, my store's really not laid out for this. We've got no place to put iced cups by the register and because of how narrow behind the counter is, having register folks mark cups is a nonstarter.


Oh, despite working well, there are still some other negatives. BR2 doesn't work very well in cafe stores that only have 2 person coverage, or drive stores that only have 3 person coverage. Unless you have a ludicrous number of pitchers at your bar, which is totally space dependent. I feel like a beached whale if my bar support person disappears for one of the hundreds of reasons they possibly could, and I don't have any clean pitchers. It totally destroys the rhythm of the system.

We had to completely reorganize our bar in order to make it work. As a result of the new layout, double barring is a totally horrible clusterfuck (but luckily we rarely eclipse the 11-drinks-in-queue number, so we don't have to worry about it often).

I only work mornings, and we always use BR2 during our peak because we have coverage, but I'm pretty sure the night crew (which never is larger than 3), just makes drinks the same old way. But then again, there's rarely an order of more than 2 drinks at once past 5PM.


Wow, such abrasiveness. We launched the new system about two months ago and had no choice to stick to it as we were the seed store for our region.
At first I was concerned, but very quickly, as my partners stayed committed to the process, are "cranking it out" now. I have, after my last Go See, been asked to add two extra people, taking my AM total to 8-9 on the floor to help alleviate the business, and so that the rest of us can keep up with what is rollin out of the bar.
Resistance is futile, and silly. Open your eyes, naysayers- or go get another gig.

been through it all

So here's a question - take a store that consistently delivers drinks at handoff every 10 - 22 seconds, has average of 118 customers an hour, product mix slightly to iced, deploys 7-9 throughout day. Gets consistent high marks through CV for drink quality and engagement of baristas with customers. What will this new system do for this store?


The new system is GREAT. But. . . (of course, there is a "but") we have also had to adapt. The morning shift refuses to wash pitchers even with 4 people on the floor so the bar person is doing that. The mid and evening are usually 2 man deployment so we wash our pitchers then, too. Typically, one of the baristas is washing dishes, cleaning bathrooms, stocking or whatever so one person is ringing up drinks then making the drinks.


I agree with Waltie... if you don't think BR2 works, you're doing it wrong. Even though I know "precisely dick" about how each individual store is set up. My setup is awkward, and BR2 works. The new system ensures that every beverage that hits the hand off plane is consistently high quality. My partners are excited about it. What a shame that others are not willing to take opportunities to become better.

I have said it before... if you say "this doesn't work, I'm not going to do it" then it won't work, BECAUSE you aren't doing it.

Since this is becoming the company STANDARD, that means that it is YOUR JOB to execute BR2. Are the naysayers really telling us that they either can not or will not do their job?

James Connolly

No, the naysayers are saying that they know how to do their job in their store better than some mouthbreather with a Green Belt in Six Sigma in Seattle because they've actually made drinks there for a period of time.

If BR2 works for you, good. By all means use it, but it being faster or better is not a universal fact.

seventysix [76]

The new repeatable routine really works. Really. Some of the partners in my store haven't quite got the hang of it yet, but I feel this is to be expected: it's perfectly calculated and if you lose even one second you could mess up your sequence.

Now all beverages I make on the bar are of a consistent quality and I'm faster than I ever was before. I know the company has been known to implement new standards that as partners on the store level we're not particularly fond of, but R2 isn't one of them.

seventysix [76]
Haud ignota loquor


Slaw and others - what works for you may not work for others. I don't mean to sound conceeded or pretentious, but this doesn't work for me because I'm too good for this slow method of making beverages. I can keep a consistent flow of drinks being passed out, while maintaining perfect milk quality and temperatures within the 150-170 range. I began learning how to make espresso beverages from a La Marzocco, so I have experience with "really" making an espresso drink (and the arduous work involved). One problem is, most people learned on automatic machines so they don't know how to work faster and be more efficient, while maintaining quality. Second, most baristas just don't give a damn so that's why beverages taste like s**t. Heck, I would say 90% of baristas don't even know that espresso is a method of brewing coffee, and not a specific bean.

And these reasons is why SBUX has decided to go with this method - they understand most baristas can't and/or aren't willing to do things properly and efficiently. They've decided it's better to have everyone on the same page so there's more consistency. This is similar to the frappuccino crisis they had many years ago - for those of you that don't know, back in the days volumetric ice scoops and labeled blenders were non-existent. In short, SBUX changed the way frapps are made because they wanted better consistency with the amount of ice being used, thus providing a more consistent frappuccino drink. SBUX may want to think their cafes are factories and the baristas are robots, but not everything just works out too well for everyone.


I wonder if machines will ever replace baristas. It doesn't seem like it would be too complicated to make a factory style machine do what baristas do. I'm not saying there isn't an art and value added by baristas, but I also don't know if the customer would notice a difference in the end product if made by man or machine. Also the product could be devalued in the eyes of the customer, and they might expect it to be the same quality as coffee drinks from vending machines.

Still, I think it would be possible for an advanced enough machine to process drinks of good quality. When you look at the functions of a barista, they are sort of like the functions of a machine that connects other machines.

I hope this doesn't seem offensive. I think any service, whether it's shining shoes, pumping gas, serving as a lawyer, or making drinks is noble, because all service is to help others. You just have to wonder because machines have replaced man before. And a company as big as Starbucks is likely asking these same questions even if only as a lark.


"If BR2 works for you, good. By all means use it, but it being faster or better is not a universal fact."

I can understand why this makes you angry, since it makes me angry when people act as though it's a universal fact that the new system doesn't work. That's what I'm arguing against. I'm annoyed that your fellow union members are telling the press that this system sucks and will do nothing but slow down service at every Starbucks. I'm not implying that this story was planted by the union, but it does seem odd that the biggest opponents on this board (and the only baristas quoted in that dumb article) are union members. Though I'm willing to give you all the benefit of the doubt by assuming that there is just a breakdown in proper training in union-run stores.

I would still say that the new beverage method works brilliantly 99% of the time. It has certainly increased productivity and speed of service in my store, and in most stores across my district. Too bad your sink is too far away. I'm trying to picture ten feet being such a deal-beaker, however, since I can't imagine that my store's sink is that much closer.

DM's are on another planet

I am wondering if anyone on here is from the SoCal Market good old Frank Sicas area. I think it fun to hear how the rest of the commpany is doing with this but I was wondering how the micro climate in the SoCal market is viewing this. I to was an SM and gave my life to this commpany until I was able to fallow my own lean routine and find that if I cut out Starbucks everything got easier. I wonder are Amy and Kim blindly enforcing the new standards or have they grown some balls and actually not afraid to roll some feed back up the hill

James Connolly

Waltie, there's no breakdown in proper training in my store. The union presence there isn't public, so there's no thorny issues of management being held accountable for its actions there. But even my store's SM and ASM are slower on bar using the BR2. It's not just a union thing.

I can tell you this much: Julie contacted us about BR2, not the other way around. That the company spokesperson 'didn't have that level of detail' on whether BR2 is causing slowdowns is patently absurd, especially if your assertion is correct about it.


Considering how poorly written and researched that article was, I have doubts about the accuracy of that quote at the end. I'm sure it was verbatim, but I have concerns about how the "journalist" probably phrased her questions, no doubt to elicit a negative response. The entire article is basically based around the two quotes by the baristas in the union, one of whom is patently false and the other from a barista whose store hasn't gone through the training.

Doppio Con Karma

@ james connolly,

On for a new topic.
Our store is an awkward layout too, with the bars well away from a dump sink, we compensated by getting far more pitchers than we normally used and go rinse in batches, that might be something worth considering.

Do people use the 1 and 3 shot buttons on their mastrenas? I know we initially wern't supposed to, and actually couldn't, but I thought they backpedaled on that shortly after espresso excellence.

ex sbux manager

Has anyone ever wondered what it'd be like if Howard went on Undercover Boss? I think it'd just be amusing if he tries to be a barista one day at a store which is implementing every single Starbucks policy and initiative. (all lean practices, Via push, 10-minute timer)

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