What do NYers think of Starbucks' new coffee-making policy? Defends on which paper you read

The New York Post says they're steamed about the slow-down edict, while the New York Daily News reports customers don't mind waiting a little longer.

Comments

[MIKE]

You coffee drinking morons will continue to come in..and pay "FIVBUCKS"!

Starbucks does not care about workers or what the consumer wants..or profit..unless it is squeezing the money from the barista....yea like my manager is going to let me slow down.....yep...

Or better yet maybe it will increase my tips...come on...revolt against the mermaid!...yea...it's a frickin mermaid!

[Hipsterdufus]

Starbucks hasn't even rolled out the new beverage routine in NY metro yet, at least not fully.

Baristas are being trained as we speak.

[slaw275]

As part of the training, partners first make 6 drinks however they are currently making them. After going through the BR2 training, they then make the same 6 drinks using BR2. Both of these exercises are timed. I have yet to see it slow ANYBODY down, regardless of how long they have been with the company or how amazingly fast (or not) they could bar before. Drink quality, on the other hand, had improved.
There is the evidence. No koolaid here, just a delicious, high quality, handcrafted beverage.

[ncsm]

Starbucks can introduce all the "LEAN" elements it wants into it's operations, but until it commits itself to hiring more qualified partners AND paying them a LIVEABLE wage, they will continue their downward slide towards becoming a truly half-assed operation. Remember..first the people, THEN the process!

[Waltie]

Once again, there is no "slow down edict." There is actually a new routine that makes things faster and elevates drink quality.

[.]

Every Barista I have trained had taken 30sec-3minutes off their time making the same 6 drinks.

[george]

We've reached level 4!!! a\All that we know is out the window now!

[Janice]

The new method is a bit different and I shaved off a whole minute in my time!
But It's not all about the time. It's about the consistency of the customer wait time and quality drinks.

[Petie]

BR2 training is in a controled environment. How often do we only have 6 drinks on the bar, no frapps, or iced teas.

[LEGENDARY OR BUST]

Is there already an action item re: the situation and how to respond to customer comments/questions?

[12345678]

@slaw275. that is not true. i was timed before and after the training, however before i was only allowed to use one bar rather than two and made every drink to standard. after they told me not to put whip or cr on the drinks and not to lid the drinks, also not to pull the extra shot for the americano or fill it with water. sure it was 20 seconds faster but had been allowed to use two bars during the first timing and required to make beverages to standard during both methods the time difference would have been negligible at best. for me it is not faster as i already basically used the steps in the routine but on two bars, but prepping cups in the cue while i waited for milk and shots.

i would like to time it again using recepie standards and two bars during the first run to see if it is actually faster, i've got a feeling it isn't.

[12345678]

oh and i like the second article, i'm sure new yorkers won't mind waiting for their drink. they are known for their patience.

[A Non eMoose]

"I dislike this new system and in my store it does not expedite or improve anything."

"You're obviously just doing it wrong, this system has no flaws and you just suck at your job."

There, there's the thread. The end, everyone get back to work.

[slaw275]

I don't see what doesn't make sense about the routine to some partners. Putting syrups in the cups ahead of time doesn't make the milk steam faster or the shots pull faster. It is a waste of your time to "prep" cups ahead of time.

Also, I used to bar on two machines at a time, so I get it when partners say it couldn't possibly be faster to bar on just one. In this respect, a choice has been made that puts a higher importance on quality than speed.

[Hipsterdufus]

also, for the people who haven't "saved time" using the new method yet..

were you as fast at making drinks when you first learned as you are now?

did you not get better with time?

don't you think you will also get better with time using this new process? you may start a little slower, but once the new routine becomes 2nd nature, you will be just as speedy, if not speedier, than before AND you will have had more time to connect with customers AND produced better beverages.

Also, double barring is more organized under this new method. That I appreciate greatly. no longer is my second bar person just coming over and messing with my milk that I have steaming and pulling shots willy nilly!

[block and tackle]

We rolled out with this in my store beginning of September and drink quality and speed of service has improved. Our most recent Customer Voice pretty much showed an improvement in both those areas. If you pretty much go in with the mind set that it won't work then you are pretty much destined to fail. My partners bought into when they heard that the beverage sequencing would improve beverage quality, efficiency on the bar, and create a consistently quicker wait time for customers.

[..]

Yes, it is a controlled environment, but still, our speed improvements should be proportiate in an uncontrolled environment. For example, ad there been a frappuccino in that mix, it might have taken us 8 minutes originally and improved to 6. Also, if you're implementing correctly, more than 5 drinks and the floater should be producing CBS drinks. My only concern is that this throws cb deployment out the window.

[_]

It doesn't matter how you change up the drink-making process.

The espresso sucks. It tastes horrible. Being a foundational item to most beverages at Starbucks, until this is corrected, EVERYTHING will taste gross.

And, yes, adding tons of sugar/ sugar-type products only makes it more disgusting.

Lipstick on a pig.

[_]

Oh, and PS:

This "method" Starbucks is using is what every decent coffee place has been using FOREVER.

Seriously.

One drink at a time, steam limited quantities of milk, make sure the shot is good, focus on foam-to-milk ratios for lattes and caps.

It's like someone took a walk from Utah Ave S to a Stumptown on Pine and decided to take some notes.

This isn't that difficult.

[David]

I had just gone through the training today. I must say, I'm in with this. It provides consistency between drinks, rather than having a few drinks come out every few minute, It has become to be a drink about every 30 seconds.

We may be moaning and groaning about it. Remember when we first had Vivannos?, then came the new recipe for Frappuccinos?

We all complained but as we gotten used to it, it will settle down too. Just give it some time!

[tall guy]

My store has not rolled it out yet. We are still in training. This week is barista milk steaming. However, I have learned all the new routine and IT WORKS and I have yet to meet anyone who has learned ALL the method that says otherwise.

SO ALL YOU NAYSAYERS...before you spout off - maybe you should learn the routine. Thanks!

[meme]

Those who say it cannot be done should stop interrupting the people doing it. Chinese Proverb

[Blackcoffee]

Well, I guess America does not RUN on Starbucks.

[cafenoir]

Some ppl love the new way, some ppl hate it, some customers love it, others just want their drink NOW! No matter what sbux does, some will like it and some will not. And besides, you are never goint to get rid of the obnoxious customers. Ever. So I say chill, enjoy the ride, and cherish all the crazy stories you will be able to tell your family.

[otterinthewater]

I'm more annoyed at dealing with customer idignation over the news story's implications than with BR2 itself (especially since it's not fully rolled out at my store.). I swear in the days
since the article hit, I'm getting way more nasty
looks than ever before and I'm still using my old system, which is pretty darn quick and produces quality drinks. So thanks, WSJ lady, for nothing.

I can't judge BR2 yet, since I don't have the full story, but I'm sincerely hoping that my store and district doesn't see it as some sort of panacea for all beverage issues.

[hearbutloud]

This method, when used properly, will make MOST baristas faster.

This method, when used properly, makes ME 2x slower. I know, because when timed, the six "training" drinks took me less than 3 minutes doing it my way, and doing seven by way of BR2 took over 4 minutes (still less time than most baristas, by the way). And before you naysayers can put in your two cents, my manager inspected every drink that went out and they were perfect with beautiful microfoam and extra hot on the mochas.

The ONLY reason I am faster is because I can run BR2 as if I were two baristas. I am sincerely hoping that Starbucks encourages us to find ways to make BR2 faster if we are able.

I have watched every single other barista at my store get faster thanks to BR2 training. Has anyone double barred yet?

[javagirl666]

It does work..it makes the work more consistent and controlled. You CAN actually get a drink out every 35-40 secs.

[Guat.my.mala]

I love the new system and I think all of this hype over the new system is a little bit ridiculous. The milk steaming is amazing and it makes such great foam! I was able to be on bar on a Friday morning all by myself and consistently get out drinks every 20-30 seconds. It was amazing and considering we were short handed, the shift (I'm the SM) was very grateful for being able to ignore me on the bar.

[_]

Um, how can there really be only but a couple of ways to steam milk?

This isn't rocket science.

[meme]

It's not just about if you are the fastest barista around. Its about the customers experience. The idea is that you now have an opportunity to connect at the hand off plane with your customer. You no longer need to look so harried and frazzeled. Believe it or not, the atmosphere in the store is symbiotic with the customers perception of what the partners are doing. Customers often fell the tension and fell hurried during a busy time to keep up with the tension the baristas are showing. This will help relax the customers from the confusion that super speed was requiring of them and will allow a pleasant third place experience to occur. If your ego insists on complaining because you were a superstar on the bar get over it. That is not as important as you think it is. Also, guess what they are not going to give us extra labor. This is the way to serenity so embrace the change and let it happen and this to shall pass so get over it.

[MIbarista]

to all the people who like this new method can I ask whether or not you are low volume, medium volume, or high volume stores?

My store is very high volume ( we're right off the highway and other main roads plus we're a drive thru) and all partners have now been trained on the new repeatable routine however our wait times have still been 5-7 minutes usually as the minimum for drive thru. We actually had a couple of customers either say forget it about getting their coffee or today we actually had a customer tell a barista to f-off because the barista kindly explained that due to our new way of doing drinks we were getting a bit behind and yet customers are going off on people when we are just doing the new standard and trying to be polite still.

In my opinion for some stores (low/mid volume) this will work out great and not so much for others. However I do like the reduction in dairy waste it produces as well as beverage quality. I think that I'm still unsure exactly how I feel about it all.

[Long Timer]

Let me add something here. I've been a manager for Starbucks for over 10 years.
When I trained for BR2, I made the six drinks my way in under three minutes. I didn't beat that time with the new system, and while only using one bar, I doubt I could. However- the BR2 system is a better way to train newer partners, and with practice can be successful. The six most basic drinks in the training are hardly a litmus of what customers actually order- so the whole timing is really irrelevant. I I had a rush with all espresso drinks straight off the menu I'd have easy mornings. I can't make three (6) shot Carmel macchiatos on one bar. These real situations open up too many one offs and exclusions to the "new rules". This causes obvious questions amongst partners who only want to do right by the line of customers needing to get on with their day.

More importantly, I believe all these new "lean" processes are really just a way to justify a shortage of allowable labor, a way for Starbucks to say, "we showed you how to get the job done with the labor you have." I don't see more labor as the best solution to every issue, but just a bit more would help.

[hearbutloud]

@meme - I probably should have added that I do still have plenty of time to connect with customers, provided they want to chat. But, I believe that I am a unique case and that most baristas will benefit hugely from the change over.
@Long Timer - I agree with everything you have said. A bit more labor would help, but it would also be helpful if people used the labor they had constructively.

[LV]

I have mixed feelings. This can work during the times we are operating like an assembly line - Those (for my store) 2 to 3 hour rushes in the morning where bar person is planted and has drinks consistently lined up. This only works if we have enough labor to have a floater rinsing pitchers, getting fraps, and helping bar stay planted. If we're short on labor, then when someone has to go on a break we lose that floater and the bar must do everything for herself, making wait times longer than they usually would be. During the afternoon when we only have a drink or two at a time and not enough staff to have a float, it makes sense to go back to the old method until we have a little rush.

Even in the morning with a float, if you get a drink with 10 shots of espresso, forget about it... the next person is going to have an insane wait time unless we can occasionally use our heads to do what's quickest: pull shots on two bars at once and start the next couple drinks. It remains to be seen whether they'll actually let us use our best judgment, or just have us stick to the mindless routine.

[Hipsterdufus]

long timer: if you are making a drink with more than 2 shots in it, BRR specifically says to use more than one bar.

[meme]

and who says during high espress times you can't use both bars with two baristas both using the new method. They work as a team where B1 besides the steaming and drink making also puts in the syrup and moves a cup as need from the cue to B2 and then B2 will also call the drinks to the customer when B1 passes the finished cup down. We do it and it works well.

[Hipsterdufus]

yeah when there are alot of cups in que you double bar. and i still think that the double barring in brr is it's greatest achievement.

LV: unless you are trained by a control freak or someone who isn't bright enough to understand these are guidlines, not hard core black and white must dos, you should be getting messaging that occasionally you will get out of sequence and that's ok. As long as you are following the general philosophies of BRR "machine is always working" "milk shot syrup finish" things will be ok.

Don't say a system won't work because less than 1% of drinks fall into it.

[LV]

Hipsterdufus:

At my store, we're getting the message that these processes are mandatory, and being threatened that if the DM catches us deviating, there will be trouble. Vague threats, so no one really listens, but I get the feeling my managers think that this process is not adaptable. I didn't say it won't work, in fact I said that it works during rush times and when we've got a float, but other times even when it doesn't make sense to do it we're being told that it's non-negotiable. I disagree with my management's interpretation, is all.

[Hipsterdufus]

Good, I too disagree with your managers interpretation of it.

managers should always empower their partners to think and use reason, not the opposite!

[shift.misto]

anyone who can hold their own on bar has been doing this for ages. BR^2 just forces the slow-asses to get on board. which is nice, but the two drink limit sort-of defeats the purpose.

BR^2 added 40 seconds to my 6 bevs.

also i would like to add that those graphs are BS. unless of course every car in DT only has one drink from here on out.
on the whole, i think it will be an improvement. No one is getting slower. Slow baristas have to pump syrups fast enough to beat the shots, and fast baristas aren't going to twiddle their thumbs with the two drink rule once the babysitting ends.

so far, symphony has us moving at a glacial speed far worse than anything we could ever encounter in the edibles range. every damn drink takes 6 buttons!

[Kristin Billerbeck]

I'm a writer who lives in Silicon Valley. A two-times a day Starbucks' user and caffeine addict. This new system SUCKS and as an early adopter, I will say people will stop coming when they figure out it's not a long line that particular day -- but that your espresso addiction will now cost you twenty minutes in the morning.

The quality argument is crap. They're not pulling me a shot. They're pressing a button. There is no pretty apple on top of my latte. I notice absolutely NO difference in the quality, but I do notice that I can't get my two high schoolers to school on time if I take twenty minutes for an espresso.

I think when customers figure out they're being sold a line of marketing and pay attention to the time lost, the bottom line is going to pay. But that's me.

[justno]

I love how starbucks covered their butt on this one! They tell partners "this will make you faster!" Then, when they see the obvious truth, that their new method is horrible, they tell the media a bunch of bull about being slower

[justno]

"it puts more importance on quality than speed" My ASS! That is why all the DMs have been saying "this will make you SOOO much faster! yayeee!" It wasn't about being slower until it became obvious how slow it was! it actually cuts down on quality in many ways. So, how they represented equated speed to be more important than quality. Not a great step

[thisistrash]

@slaw, it saves a load of time when the partner calling down the line does it. @heartbutloud and oldtimer -you nailed it. Some of us can already make drinks that quickly, stall cool and not be "harried". If you can't you should question if you are at the right job.
@everyone who says this now gives you great foam-what were you doing before!!! OUCH
@everyone who says "now we work as a team when there are 2 people on the bar"-YOU should already have known how to do that!!

[btlemonade]

I posted this on the other page too.. wanted to put in my two cents..

I'm a six year partner and I have to say this routine does make sense, in that you really do want to keep your bar working for you at all times.. but it is NOT reasonable for all stores including mine at times. I was on bar the other day for 8 hours straight.. the majority of that time there was only two partners on the floor. Which meant I was stuck rinsing pitchers and making all the fraps and cold drinks all day... in addition to being slammed with all the hot drinks. Probably by the hundredth time I was stuck at the sink rinsing 8 pitchers, I was exhausted and knowing I still had a line of drinks waiting for me! And at other times, we got so many multiple drink orders that I had to open the other bar just to steam up more extra hot milk. To me, it was really frustrating and to watch everyone looking at me knowing it was taking forever and there was nothing I could do about it.. just keep going, trying the new routine. I think it works if you have the third person there to help with cold and rinsing and if you can mainly just stay on bar focusing on steaming, but if not.. it can be a disaster. I think with time we will all get it, but I do feel it's just another thing Starbucks adds on to our busy workload. I feel just when I can't take one more "new" way that involves 10 more steps, they add 5 more.

[Nancy]

If you're a Bar Master, you will hate it. If you suck at bar, you will love it. I'm the best at bar at my store and trust me, when we rolled this out, it was frustrating! You have to tweak it to where everyone in your store is comfortable.

In Chicago, we were the test market and trust me, my store put it off for a long, long, long time! After awhile, it gets better. Just as long as you know what you are doing and you communicate!

[druidbros]

I want to know if they tell the barisatas in BR2 that the 10 second rule for espresso does not matter anymore?

[mens health]

I am a big fan of postsecret.com. I agree with the fact that it gives people an outlet to express their feelings without backlash. Alot of people can relate to the problems on the site. It's really awesome that the creators of the site help the users with their problems.

[Juice]

Beverage better way as its called works during the downtime NY stores have. During our rush, is pointless. It does NOT run faster, however all it does is produce better Quality beverages. On an average day we have a bottle neck at our bar even with our BEST baristas. We even had out DM come in and help out on bar during 2 of our rushes and he has seen customers PISSED off about how long it takes to prepare beverages. Also, customers in my area (times Square) hate waiting. They could have JUST ordered their beverage and will push their way to the front of the bar harassing the Bar 2 person about why their beverage isn't ready yet. Our customer voice has gone down drastically because our regular customers do not want to wait 15 minutes to get through the line and then an addition 5 to 10 minutes for their over priced beverage.

[L]

What makes a good latte? Foam, weight, temperature, and shots pulled correctly. As long you satisfy those points, you can bar however the hell you like. And I've been doing a similar procedure to BR2 long before it was introduced. But on two machines. While finishing non-espresso drinks (ice teas/coffees/chais) while shots were pulling.

I work in a store where we slammed in the mornings, and while we're all veterans at my store (average tenure is about 4 years if you don't include the two new dudes) we're going this procedure to the dot. Let our customers wait 30 minutes and have them fill out a survey. I'm tired of fighting with the DM to let us work harder and make drinks faster. Now I can stand around and chit-chat while I wait for this 5 shot latte to finish up. :)