OPEN THREAD conversation-starter: Want to join the campaign to crush Green Mountain?

Howard Schultz has squelched rumors about Starbucks being on the verge of buying Green Mountain Coffee. Instead, he's ready to take on the company that's known for its single-serve business. Discuss this or anything else Starbucks-related in the OPEN THREAD. || Jump to the second page of comments.

Comments

[headdown]

I am wondering if it is just my district or if others are suddenly being threatend with "firing on the spot"? No write-ups, you're just gone.

We used to take broken pastries and cut them up and put them on the employee drink shelf, do it now and you are fired. Out of uniform, goodbye. You get the picture...

[NOPASSION]

As a casual Starbucks customer (1-2 visits a week) and a frequent reader
of this message board, I've noticed for some time that Starbucks has
switched to the fully automatic machines by Mastrena. I thought that this move by Howard Schultz was one of his best. For one, it takes care of the inconsistency of non-caring baristas pulling shots and
steaming milk. Two, it speeds up the drink-making process. To the average coffee consumer, it's all fine, and the Starbucks baristas seem to enjoy it as well. But you might not have realized that by introducing this superautomatic machine, Howard Schultz took away the skill and knowledge of producing a great shot of espresso and steaming the perfect milk. When it comes down to it, Starbucks baristas have turned into starbucks drink mixers - not baristas. I haven't seen a single worker actually tamp a portafilter filled with coffee or
even look at the steaming milk to make sure no bubbles existed in quite some time. All the Starbucks mixers do is get the cup that's handed to them, put it under a spout, and press a button. While that is going, they pour milk into a pitcher, slip it under the steam wand, and press another button. After all that is done, the mixer gets the cup and adds whatever flavoring or mix to the cup the customer asked for and then pours the milk half-hazard into the cup and puts the lid on. Where is the passion? Where is the love that is put in to every cup? Starbucks
workers often talk about a retraining, but what can you possibly need
retraining for? How to clean better when noone is in the store? How to
fake a cheerful attitude? How to press a button? Being a so-called barista at Starbucks barely requires any skill -- and that's what Howard had in mind when he got the new Mastrena espresso machines. Is there really a big difference between a Starbucks worker and a fast food worker anymore? In my
opinion, if it wasn't for the pay and the health insurance, there isn't. If you want to see a real barista, check out the independent coffee shop or smaller chain stores that still know how to make a cup of coffee. Go to a barista competition and see the artwork that people place on the drinks. Look at the love and passion that people have for a perfect cup of coffee. Walk around the SCAA convention this year in Houston and taste what good coffee is like. Yes, they can be snobs sometimes, but they know what good coffee is. I challenge you to drink a cup of coffee or an espresso shot a day after it was roasted and taste the difference. I don't understand why one pound bags of retail coffee have a "good until" date of 7 months from now. Do Starbucks mixers even know when their coffee was roasted? Starbucks has painted this image of their workers being professionals and the best at what they do when, in reality, they're easily replaceable, thanks to Howard. It really doesn't take much to make an average latte or cappuccino. That's what the Mastrena is for.

[Waltie]

"We used to take broken pastries and cut them up and put them on the employee drink shelf, do it now and you are fired. Out of uniform, goodbye. You get the picture..."

It sounds as though your district has lapsed in setting and maintaining standards (I mean, you think stealing pastries and showing up out of dress code are small things), so the DMs and SMs are finally stepping up and taking measures to correct things.

Do I think people should be fired on the spot for breaking rules that SMs and DMs have been lax in enforcing? Probably not, but then again, just follow the rules and do your best and you shouldn't have anything to worry about, right?

I mean, it might seem like a small thing to eat a broken pastry, but when that kind of thing is allowed to become the norm, it quickly follows that people intentionally start breaking pastries so just they can eat them.

[Waltie]

"Where is the passion? Where is the love that is put in to every cup?"

I'll admit that I lack passion for crafting espresso beverages that rival the quality you can find at the independent coffee shop down the street. I don't miss the days of grinding beans or tamping for the perfect shot. I'm happy to have a machine that does 99% of the work for me, because that allows me to devote my passion to creating a perfect, legendary experience for the customer that goes far beyond just the taste of the espresso.

That's what separates me from a fast food worker. I actually care about creating an experience for the customer that elevates their day, and keeps them coming back over and over again. That's why I go to Starbucks (it also helps that I get a discount). I enjoy going to place where people actually smile when I come in, regardless of if they know me or not.

[otterinthewater]

@Waltie

No shade doll, but I don't understand the logic behind the concept of the whole no eating broken/expired/otherwise compromised pastry thing. Those who are going to steal a pastry are going to do it regardless of whether or not we are allowed to eat Starbuck's garbage.

[Waltie]

Why should baristas be allowed to eat pastries without paying for them? It's true that people are going to steal regardless, but companies can take measures to cut down on opportunities.

If you let people eat broken pastries, they are going to break pastries on purpose. If you let people eat marked out pastries, they are going to take pastries and mark them out.

I'm not saying it's the most important thing the company should be worried about, but don't act as though you don't understand why it's wrong.

[BAYAREABUX]

Waltie,

Never forget that a slippery slope is a logical fallacy. That said, I never assume the worst in co-workers -- I try to assume the best. How are you going to elevate anyone's day if you think that your coworkers are just out to steal food? Heaven knows what kind of trouble you ascribe to your customers!

[Waltie]

I'm not talking about a slippery slope. I'm talking about what I have seen in every store I've ever worked in. And no, having rules against theft doesn't mean you assume every employee is a thief. It just means you expect people to follow rules.

[Martha]

NOPASSION--

I've been to many indie coffee shops and except for a couple of decent ones, the requirement seems to be tattoos, piercings and a snotty attitude. Most times the coffee was not that great. I'd rather see someone "hit a few buttons" to make my latte than have it not be good AND given to me with a douche attitude.

[TiredofThis]

I actually have to agree with Waltie here, the company has every right to set clear guidelines on what it considers theft. If the company makes a reasonable effort to educate the partners on their policies, in this case the pastry policy and dress code, it has every right to dismiss the people who don't want to follow the rules. As a former SM, I can tell you that I used to find it ridiculous when people had a problem following the dress code. I have never worked in an environment where the employees felt that they had the right to just disregard the policies they didn't like. No other company would put up with that. It is about time Starbucks started to support people who enforce their policies.

[fs]

I went to CVS today, scanned my card at the coupon-dispensing kiosk, and got a $1 off Starbucks coffee coupon.

Is this fairly standard? Will I get looked at funny by the barista if I try to use it?

Thanks,
fs

[Coffee Soldier]

@fs ....Are you sure it's not a grocery store coupon? it might say 1$ off a 12 ounce bag of whole bean coffee where gorceries are sold?...I see those on occasion come thru...we just say yes and take them.

[ash_sk8s]

When I worked at Starbucks, I WOULD see people "accidentally" break pastries and then eat them. So yes, it does happen.

[Pepsico Blend]

Well Kids do the math 1 broken/eaten/unaccounted for pastry a day per 10000 stores is a substantial loss company wide ...if you are caught taking socks from the gap you are fired whats so sad is as a partner why cant you understand your stealing from yourself as a shareholder...Partners have a sense of entitlement sometime you dont deserve to eat it you deserve to pay just like our customers...again numbers dont lie

[P]

So has NOPASSION decided to stay at home permanently now in order to avoid such atrocities like automatic espresso machines? I sure hope so. Must be a hard, miserable life being so hard to please and such. Weighing in on the pastry issue, I think it's far beond annoying when partners feel it's ok to take pastries (not even broken ones) from the case to eat, or dig through the markout container, the container full of pastries to be donated, looking for something to eat on their ten. Jesus, you people have a job, buy your own food. One girl I work with feels completely okay with eating however many sandwiches she wants. The other day I opened with her and she managed to eat 3 of the veggie artisan sandwiches before her 6 hour shift was through. MOrality/legality aside, I was stunned by the fact that I had probably witnessed her suck down twice her DV of fat and sodium all whilst at work!

[ncsm]

Anyone who believes that Starbucks still provides a more "elevating" experience than most other fast food operations is suffering from a serious case of wishful thinking. Most of the Starbucks that I have been into lately are staffed by partners who really seem as if they could care less about providing the kind of service that would make one want to return. Service is generally slow, quality is inconsistent, and the whole vibe is largely one of "I could care less".

[CJ]

I am a loyal Starbucks customer who goes to the same Starbucks at least 3 times a week. My city has a Starbucks on almost every corner, and I have been to a lot of them. I would say more than half are the typical "fast food workers" that could care less about you or your drink. That being said, I have seen "my" store train/transfer and hire many baristas over the three years. Out of those, more than 85% are charming, wonderful people. They all hold conversations, make sure your drink tastes good, and if you sit in there, they all will come out and ask what book you're reading/how's your family doing/etc. So while some Starbucks do lack good customer service, mine is quite the opposite.

[Sterling]

Starbucks cannot fire on the spot unless it is actual theft but they can terminate on the spot for policy violations ( like not wearing proper uniform) if it is written and distributed or posted for all employees to see.

In my personal observation what seriously needs attention and training at the DOZENS of Starbucks that I have bee to in the last 12 months from San Dego to Seattle is the filthy bathrooms in every single one of them. The baseboards are always caked with god knows what and the fixtures are always dirty and I usually clean the sink and back of toilet before I use. Otherwise I am very happy with them for 20 years now.

[meme]

In my opinion Starbucks tries to get their employees to have opposing drives in their personalities which causes a lot of stress and anger to surface in their partners attitudes, which spill out in the wrong areas. They expect personality types of great sales and customer service and also personality types that get satisfaction from the detail in the cleaning skills demanded. These are two opposing drives in people and trying to do both creates psychology conflict for individuals . Which in turn causes discontentment Personalities who are people oriented will shine with the third place environment attitude but will not do their share correctly in keeping up with the cleaning needs and people who find joy and satisfaction in a good cleaning of the store are more annoyed with the customers giving a poor customer experience. Both are valuable and important to the stores needs at this time. I suggest Starbucks focus on hiring more on the personality type that are people oriented and go back to have a janitorial company come in weekly to keep up with the deep cleaning that is required by the QASA. Things such as scrubbing under unmovable shelving full of back of house necessary stock, scrubbing mats, moving refrigerators and cleaning behind ice machines, scrubbing walls and baseboards and detail cleaning of tile grout, scrubbing bathroom walls and baseboards, power washing the patios, scrubbing door thresholds and interior and exterior window washing the list of big items goes on. The day to day stuff like hand sink stocking, wiping down refrigerators, changing pitchers keeping up routine food safety issues no problem for the staff. Howard I'm Just Saying.

[fs]

@Coffee Soldier

Oh, :3, I do believe you're right. That makes much more sense (but is also much less useful for me, since I get the giant packs of coffee from Costco instead of from CVS).

I don't think my local Starbucks is very "Just say yes." Or maybe I should be pushier...?

(Explanation: most other coffeeshops in the area charge a flat rate for filling a customer's travel mug [within reason], but apparently Starbucks charges for perceived volume of the cup--mine was charged as a grande + cup discount. I explained my confusion, the barista restated the pricing, I realized that it would be ridiculous to not pay for the coffee once it was in my mug, paid, and made a mental note not to go to Starbucks for mug-fillings in the future.)

I don't know: maybe if I were imposing (or had an imposing attitude), my results would have been different?

[I <3 music]

@p
Wow! Three of the veggie? Nobody should do that even if they are paying for them.

[kandi]

@NOPASSION:

Just wondering: you are talking about the "passion" lost at Starbucks and the "good 'ol days" of latte art, etc. Fair enough.

What I would like to know is if we took away the manual bars and started doing everything old school, would you be on here 6 weeks later complaining about how we take too much time making butterflies in your latte and you are now late for work?

Seriously. I have between 500-700 customers a day come through my cafe store and it's just not possible. We make great coffee, great conversation and actually care about what we do. Just because we use a different bar or method does not mean we automatically don't care.

Pretty butterflies are great but so is Speed Of Service. My two cents.

[LV]

fs -

Just because most other coffee shops in your area charge a flat rate for filling a travel mug doesn't necessarily mean that you can get the same results from Starbucks by being more insistent. It's our policy to charge by size, and if you insist on being charged differently you're being unfair to everyone else after you who does have to pay by size. That, and being pushier isn't going to be perceived well by the person serving you when they're only doing their job as they've been taught by policy. The baristas aren't here to try to withhold anything or charge as much as we can unreasonably. Confronting baristas who can't do anything about it is not the way to go, but you can go to MyStarbucksIdea and propose it to them... someone might pay attention.

A flat rate is also unfair for the person who pays the same amount to fill their little 12 oz travel mug as someone who comes in with those huge 40 oz monster big gulp travelers. Those things drain us of all the coffee in one urn, and there's little left for anyone else!

[spence]

I've been with Starbucks long enough to remember having time to connect and enjoy customers. Now, I'm working through my breaks and when I have an 8 hour day, I clock out for my meal and work/clean/stock/prep/do paperwork through at least half of it.
I'm not complaining; just stating the facts.

[NOPASSION]

@Kandi

A few things, 500 to 700 customers a day? If we use 600 customers (average) and you are open for a total of 16 hours a day that's only 38 customers an hour. Let's say half of those are espresso based beverages that is a total of 19 customers an hour that you use your espresso machine for. I'm sorry Kandi, that isn't a lot. Are you still that busy in your slowest hours or that the mixer can't pour the milk on the side of the cup so the crema is still intact? Or are you to tired? Would I complain that it took an extra 2 seconds to attempt a rossetta? No I wouldn't. I would probably compliment the effort.

So when you are on the Mastrena and you have a customer that orders a latte with no one behind him go ahead and make up an average latte like most Starbucks employees do. Go ahead Kandi, be average.

[amanda june]

Is Casi Cielo season over? I was so bummed when I went to buy beans today and it was nowhere to be found.

[mmmcoffee]

Howard Schultz took a giant leap in the right direction when he implemented the super-automatic espresso machines.

As Kandi brought up, speed of service is a top priority when you are the largest coffeehouse company in the world. Since speed and accuracy are so important, Schultz should take things one step further by replacing Starbucks baristas with super-automatic espresso vending machines.

As NOPASSION stated, Starbucks baristas are basically just mixers anyway, and replacing them with machinery would assure that the drinks are mixed properly and efficiently. There will be little room left for human error, and the Starbucks corporation would no longer have to worry about things like health insurance plans or employees intentionally breaking pastries in order to reap the delicious benefits.

Just something to think about.

[I <3 music]

@ mmmcoffee

Our customers will have to yell at a machine when they order their drink wrong.

[notthathard]

not showing up in uniform is not a little deal. I'll wager it's not the first time if they are getting fired.

[notthathard]

@meme when leadership are cleaning , happily, knowing it's part of the job and adds to the experience, it's a positive thing for everyone to do. If leadership sucks, the store sucks. Just b/c your leadership in your cafe is horrible does not make that a case across the board.

[notthathard]

@fs just say yes does not mean you can go in and set your price point for your coffee. Are you kidding me? Are you twelve? Do you walk into a grocery store and tell them how much you will pay for your ground beef and milk as well?

[notthathard]

@nopassion You live by new math do ya buddy?
if you are open from 7 am until 10 pm , that is still almost 50 customers an hour and we all know that there are hours that are busier. Get over yourself

[CafeOHlait]

I work for Starbucks. I drink green mountain every day. I'd be sad if they bought them and changed them.

[NOPASSION]

@ notthathard

The stores in my town all open at 6. Sorry for assuming all of them do. I was simply stating the point how Howard was taking away the mystique of being called a starbucks barista. Sorry notthathard this might be a hard pill to swallow but your job isn't that special. Waltie your co-worker accepted it why don't you? Be careful when responding, I don't want you to hurt your fingers and not be able to work at starbucks anymore.

[NOPASSION]

I wonder if worker compensation claims will go down now that all starbucks workers have to do is press a button to produce a latte or cappuccino for someone. Mmmcoffee is right, maybe a fully voice automated machine is coming next.

[Barista Ben]

NOPASSION - Seriously? We switched to automatic espresso machines like 6 years ago. We switched to the Mastrena in the past - what, 3? - but we've been automatic for a while. Actually I think they are technically semi-automatic since theres more than just 'pushing' buttons involved.

The only thing I do differently then my friend at the local coffee shop is I don't have to tamp my shots.

Tamping a good shot makes a world of a difference, but we both still grind as we make drinks. Actually scratch that, most small coffee shops I know (lets face it 75% of them aren't quality) fill their douser's up with pre-ground coffee. At least Starbucks Espresso is ground right before it's made into a shot. We don't tamp like manual machines, but most small shops I've been to have automatic machines too.

We do have to make sure our shots are in the correct time range. Independent shops do the same thing, just usually they have to mentally count.

Steaming milk isn't just putting a pitcher of milk under something and pushing a button (it's a lever now, as well). I've worked with enough people to see them make awful milk. It's the same concept as an automatic machine we just have less control over the pressure. Honestly the only real big difference between a Starbucks Barista and a Intelligentsia Barista is they tend to have a higher standard for what their drinks, coffee, etc taste like and how skilled the staff is.

That's not even possible with the amount of turnover and volume starbucks has. We are talking some 15k stores in retail at low wage. These 'better' shops are able to pay more and be more selective because the really good ones only have a handful of shops. We tend to have a "try to make the best out of what you've got to work with" model.

If you want to see a sad espresso machine watch a McDonalds worker make a latte. They even have a special device to put lids on.

[Barista Ben]

Actually I take that back it's been probably like 7-10 years since we switched to automatic machines hasn't it?

[Barista Ben]

@Sterling

I hear you, it sucks that so many stores have such awful bathrooms. I have to say though, working at a very busy store, CUSTOMER's just WRECK our bathrooms. I swear every 10 minutes isn't enough between time to clean our bathrooms with all the awful things people do in there. Half the time I can't even get into either mens or womens to clean because we have a line of people waiting to use them and when I finally do it's like they just don't care.

I wish customer's would care more when they use a starbucks and actually pick up after themselves (at least in the bathroom, come on..) Just recently our womens restroom was out of order (the handle to the toilet broke off) and so we put a sign up saying "OUT OF ORDER". People were still using the damn bathroom!! I finally barricaded the door with a trashcan just to get them to stop leaving a damn mess.

[mike]

Starbucks="FIVEBUCKS" ripoff!

In blind taste tests with two Sbux distric managers...they thought the fast food drinks were better...people are paying for the status not the taste!

[fs]

@LV

Thanks, yeah, I realize that the barista was simply doing her job. Most of the other coffee shops don't get too many (if any) 40 oz monsters: people walk due to the ridiculous lack of parking around here, and, well, 40 oz of fluid is heavy!

@notthathard

In theory, actually, I do. I just refuse to buy when the price is above my willingness to pay. The manager sees the demand curve and prices accordingly. Similarly, I buy products, and in greater quantity, when they are priced below my willingness to pay. This is also what I intend to do with Starbucks, at least, for the particular product of travel mug refill.

What actually irked me (only mildly, I might add) about the Starbucks situation is that the travel mug pricing was not posted clearly. I suppose it's caveat emptor in this case.

Moreover, I'm starting to see a dichotomy among baristas: some take pride in adhering strictly to policy (minus "Just Say Yes"), and others seem to be more casual about admitting to being agreeable.

@ mike

Blind taste tests can sometimes be deceiving: we respond well (immediately) to sweeter drinks, but if asked to drink something a few times a week for a few weeks, opinions sometimes change. See the bit in "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell discussing taste tests of Coke and Pepsi.

[Darth Sidamo.]

Many DMs are hired straight in and have no idea how to even steam milk other than an hours worth of training they are required to pass on every few years. I would believe that. Even most RDs and RVPs have been hired straight in recently. Their job isnt coffee, it is appeasing Howard and his spur of the moment decisions.

I agree about the sweeter thing. If you think our nutritional info is bad you should see what some other places put into a drink.

[mornbecomes]

If a partner has a tattoo on the inside of his wrist, would you consider that to be a "visible" tattoo that must therefore be covered? Or, because it's on the inside of the wrist, it isn't "visible" and doesn't need to be covered?

(Apparently, this is up for discussion in my store-- new hire with tattoo. My manager thinks one way while I think another.)

[Noah]

mornbecomes - you are only allowed a think. Why is this even being discussed as the manager's right by definition?

[spence]

The fact that you've noticed the tatoo on the wrist means it should be covered.

[dirty chai]

Agree with spence. If you can see it, and your manager can see it, then it's visible and should be covered.

[FullOfQuestions]

So, if a pastry is broken, why not let the salt mine workers have it rather than wasting it? It's a loss to the company either way.

[BAYAREABUX]

Somehow in the great Starbucks meltdown of 2008, curtailing partner pastry theft never came up once. Stores mark out at least ten to fifty times more pastries every day as "past date" as compared to, say, "sampled" by the partner. It's a non-issue.

[notthathard]

@nopassion you make the mistake of thinking everyone is a hardened and lacks passion like yourself. No matter how you work it, your math does not add up. Again, get over yourself. If you hate starbucks, that is your right, but if you hate it, why are you consumed with a blog about it? odd at best

[notthathard]

you nailed it baristaben

[notthathard]

@fs and obviously starbucks is hurting from it since it's nearing bankruptcy...oh wait