Maybe we can solve this cider/no cider issue in the OPEN THREAD

In the comments section of another thread, there's a little dispute over cider:

ONE COMMENTER:
>>> Starbucks does not have apple cider - we have never had nor has it been advertised as such. We have a Caramel Apple Spice, Apple Juice, and Steamed Apple Juice.

A RESPONSE TO THAT:
>>>>>We did TOO have Caramel Apple Cider. I even remember how the cups were to be marked -- CAC. They changed it to CAS (Caramel Apple Spice) in, I want to say, 2007.

Let's settle that -- any long-timers here? -- and then discuss anything else Starbucks-related in the OPEN THREAD.

Comments

[Macchiato]

Six year partner here. Yes, it used to be called Caramel Apple Cider. However, the only difference between then and now is the syrup. It used to be Cinnamon, which was exactly what you'd expect, a spicy, cinnamon flavored syrup (think toned-down red hot candies). It's now made with Cinnamon Dolce syrup, which is sweeter, and has a buttery, cinnamon roll-esque taste. Apple juice has always been at the heart of it, though. The name change coincided with the syrup change, likely because it now tastes very little like apple cider, where before you could at least make the argument based on taste. We have never used actual apple cider to make any incarnation of the drink, which may be where the confusion lies.

[Waltie]

It used to be called Caramel Apple Cider. It never was apple cider, of course, since it was always made from juice. We used to use Treetop, but now we use Musselman, but it's pretty much the same stuff.

[I <3 music]

We had to change the way it is worded. Cider contains a set minimum of apple pulp. We have 100% juice and it doesn't qualify. The name change was legal requirement and didn't change because of syrup.
That is why it's called double chocolately chip now. Our mocha doesn't have enough coca to be called chocolate.

[areacode212]

As a customer, I still order it with the old name...

[Sheik]

I wonder how Dunkin Donuts gets away with calling it Apple Cider since it obvs isn't cider.....

Also, you mean to tell me Dunkin's "Hot Chocolate" actually contains enough cocoa to be considered Chocolate?

Can't wait to go get a Dunkin' Hot Chocolaty!

[baristamclane]

Up until approx. January, 2008 the drinks were called 'apple cider' and 'caramel apple cider', and the names were changed to comply with FDA (I assume) regulations. This also coincided with the discontinuation of cinnamon syrup and the introduction of cinnamon dolce as a non-seasonal syrup, which replaced cinnamon in the drink recipe.

[three_rivers]

As Macchiato and Waltie already said, the *beverage itself* used to be called 'Caramel Apple Cider' but it was always made with apple juice (Tree Top brand initially and Musselman afterwards). It was renamed 'Caramel Apple Spice' when the recipe changed from Cinnamon syrup to Cinnamon Dolce (as Macchiato put it, the Cinnamon syrup had a spicy cinnamon flavor, similar to cinnamon red hot candies, while Cinnamon Dolce has a buttery cinnamon flavor, similar to a cinnamon roll). As far as I recall, the original Cinnamon syrup has been discontinued for four or five years now.

[promotedtocustomer]

Of all the problems in the world, we gotta worry that it's "juice" not "cider" and "chocolatey" not "chocolate". Gad.

[Martha]

Ever since the creation/use of Cinnamon Dolce in the Caramel Apple Cider/Spice, I don't buy them. I think they taste AWFUL. :(

[Left towel in counter]

QASA QASA QASA any truth to this if you score below an 80 final written baby...what crap talk about fear and intimidation...nice hostile work enviroment not mentioned in our mission statement...wonder if the upper leadership has any clue how we are being threatened by text and email we will lose our jobs...

[Question]

We can ask/talk about anything in a open thread, correct? Because I have some questions.

[ash_sk8s]

I'm not sure why there's anything that needed to be "settled." Desperate for a topic?

[Weinus]

Any juice from an apple is cider. The murky stuff with pulp is unfiltered cider, while what's generally packaged as apple juice is filtered cider. Is referring to filtered apple juice as cider misleading? Possibly, but technically not incorrect. But caramel apple cider sounds a lot more appealing than caramel apple juice.

And by the way, when the drink was first introduced (late 90s?), authentic, unfiltered cider was used. It was deemed to be too perishable and subsequently replaced by the Treetop "juice".

[Waltie]

A score below 80 is pretty pathetic. Any manager who allows their store to get that dirty probably deserves a final warning.

[WPGBRST]

Kind of shocked this hasn't been mentioned here yet...
http://www.globalwinnipeg.com/starbucks+closes+after+suspected+fire+bombing/6442515661/story.html

[Left towel in counter]

Waltie...glass houses my friend glass houses

[Barnes & Noble is my new favorite Starbucks location]

If you want an actual unfiltered, murky, Carmel Apple Cider, just stop into any Barnes and Noble Cafe. They serve 99% of the same Starbucks beverages and I know for a FACT that they use actual good old "cider"... it makes a huge difference.

[frapatte]

Left towel, there really is no excuse to have under an 80. Getting under an 80 almost certainly means you missed quite a few criticals, which means you have a disgusting store. Fresh sanitizer should always be on hand and within acceptable pH range. Food and drinks and syrups should always be clearly marked and dated. There should be no risk of cross contamination. You work in a store which provides food and drink, for a company which demands the quality and health standards required to keep their customers happy and healthy. If you don't like it then go work for a company that doesn't deal with health standards.

[alex]

There is no FDA requirements on what is cider and what is juice but when people ask for cider they generally mean the murky pulpy stuff. And when a barista a bottle of apple juice - then it's kinda misleading. Probably not in a legal way, just in what is expected. The drink that you get doesn't taste like a warm apple cider - it tastes like candy or a caramel apple.
Like someone mentioned, real pulpy cider is too perishable.
How they get away with calling "pumpkin spice latte" and use pumpkin when there is NO pumpkin in the latte is hilarious. But then again, you are promised the "spice" not the "pumpkin". Still amused people drink that crap and think they are important for doing that. Ah, advertising.

[Martha]

I was at a Barnes & Noble store and we use apple juice too...

[frapatte]

alex, who thinks they're "important" for drinking a certain drink?

[Starbucks Gossip webmaster]

>>> Desperate for a topic?

If you don't like this one, perhaps you could discuss the NY Post item about Howard Schultz buying a $4.6 million condo for his son.

FROM THE STORY:

"The fourth-floor, 2,266-square-foot home, with three bedrooms and 2 1/2 bathrooms, was listed at $4.8 million and was only on the market for a week. It’s housed at 173 MacDougal, a Romanesque Revival building created around 1890 and a block away from Washington Square Park. The unit has 10 1/2-foot ceilings, floor-to-ceiling windows, a glass-enclosed limestone fireplace and multiple walk-in closets. But is there a coffee maker in the kitchen? If not, there’s a Starbucks just around the corner on Sixth Avenue."

[Waltie]

"How they get away with calling "pumpkin spice latte" and use pumpkin when there is NO pumpkin in the latte is hilarious. "

How do they get away with what? Having a pumpkin flavored latte that is called a pumpkin spice latte? What is there to be confused about? I don't think anybody assumes they are getting freshly chopped pumpkin bits in their drink. It's a flavor. There's nothing misleading going on.

Oh, and people don't order it to seem "important." People order it because they think it tastes good.

"Waltie...glass houses my friend glass houses"

I don't follow. How am I being hypocritical by pointing out that a score below 80 is terrible? It is!

[Coffee Soldier]

Yea! You tell em Waltie...I love how you always tell it like it is!

[Venti Urnex Latte]

Hey, the Mister PeePee item made the approval matrix of New York Magazine!

http://nymag.com/arts/all/approvalmatrix/approval-matrix-2011-11-7/

[James Connolly]

"If you don't like this one, perhaps you could discuss the NY Post item about Howard Schultz buying a $4.6 million condo for his son."

How about we don't. I'm getting sick of reading about the millions of dollars that man throws around when a fair chunk of his employees are living in poverty.

[Mare]

I saw this on Regretsy and a few of you seemed like you might enjoy a little shopping therapy http://www.regretsy.com/2011/11/13/weekend-flashback-crappuccino/

I've had all three apple drinks mentioned here, including the B & N cider. I'm glad it's an option whatever is in it. Maybe it will change now with the recent juice buy out?

[dada or mama]

In 1992 Chicago stores had fresh, local, unpatuerized cider, OJ and grapefruit juice. Steamed cider was not on the menu for a few years yet. In 97 or 98 it was introduced to the menu and we used tree top pasteurized cider.

[Confused as always]

Just because NY Post presumes Schultz PAID for his son's new apartments doensn't mean that he actually did. But -- perception, as they say, is everything

[Stop being judgemental Waltie]

@Waltie,
you may think that getting a score lower than 80 is pathetic but by the same token people may look down on you the same way as you to others. Being a Starbucks Manager (like you right?) is pretty pathetic. Who makes a career out of starbucks? lol

[TheRootinator]

Actually, securing a career with a multi-billion dollar corporation that is producing consecutive quarters of financial records is a pretty smart move.

So, buddy, you're probably the partner who boasts about decaffing old women as if it's some sort of rite of passage. I could totally be wrong, but you honestly don't seem like the ideal partner as far as I'm concerned. And if you aren't even a partner, it's pathetic that you're trolling this site. Get.

[Waltie]

But the difference is, I'm right and you're wrong. And we both know you realize that, since you haven't attempted to counter my statement. You just resorted to a pretty pathetic attempt at an insult. Are you really so shallow as to think that a judgmental swipe at somebody's job is actually pointed or witty?

Here's the thing: I'm not being judgmental, I'm being realistic, intelligent, and using logical that is pretty much infallible in this particular case. The fact that some people look down on me, or my current vocation, doesn't save 80 or below from being a pathetic QASA score. I'd call that logic broken, but that would imply there was anything even logical about it. It would sort of be like if I took issue with how Michelle Bachman endorsed waterboarding, and then somebody retorted with, "Yeah, but a lot of people think you have an ugly shirt."

You attempted to point out the weakness in my argument by basically saying that other people are stupid.

Bottom line: Clean your stores, people, and make sure your staff does the same. That way, your customers won't get sick, your store won't look disgusting, and you won't have to be afraid of receiving a perfectly justified corrective action from your DM.

[Facts]

@waltie close but no cigar. The chocolate chips don't have enough chocolate in it them to call them chocolate chips, it has nothing to do with the mocha.

[Facts]

sorry, that was @i <3music

[I <3 music]

Oh cool. Thanks.

[dw3eb]

When I worked at starbucked back in 06' it was definitely marketed as Cider and my friends always gasped when I explained it was just juice. Still tasted amazing. I don't know if the change in syrup is good, I know my friends and I preferred the tasted of starbucks "cider" to dunkin donuts due to the fact that dunkin's is OVERLY sweet.

[Redd]

If a customer asks for Apple Cider, we repeat Caramel Apple Spice...if they say, No, just Apple Cider, we'll make it w/out the whip and caramel and they go on their merry way. Never a problem.

[will]

But there's mocha syrup in the DCCF, so who's to say the chocolate in the name isn't referring to the syrup? "Java" in the JCF isn't referring to the chips, obviously.

[Extra Hot]

I just looked at my 'bucks acct and noticed that I have to earn another 30 stars to maintain Gold status with my card.

How soon do I have to hit that total before losing gold status? Where do I find that info? Thanks.

[short drip]

I was an sbuckian from 1997-2007.
It was pasturized cider that we got from the Diary Company.
Then we went to Tree Top "3 Apple Blend". It was awesome.
I know it was the 3 apple blend because the Roastng plant would short you every week and you would have to go to the store and buy it.

[Niles]

This has nothing to do with the cider issue but has anyone heard the refreshers are coming back? I know they had them at stores in arizona, California etc but I heard there gonna be at all the stores next year

[blarg]

Refreshers were my favorite!! I loved the cool lime. It's only a 100 calories or so for a trenta. I hope they come back.

[barista since '04]

It was called cider, for years.
The issue with the double chocolate(y) chip frappuccino was the chocolate content of the chocolate chips, not the mocha syrup (hence a hot chocolate is not a 'chocolatey hot milk).

[Alex]

When I first started the drink today called Caramel Appple Spice was the Caramel Apple Cider. The name was changed because Starbucks was not really using cider we were adding a syrup to apple juice. WE NEVER HAD CIDER just called it that someone must have mentioned it to be false advertising hence the change.

Interested in more coffee knowledge:
http://coffeemovement.wordpress.com/

[Joe]

I was a partner from 1998 to 2005 and again from 2010-2011. Way back in the day, we actually used unfiltered cider, as well as having packets of mulling spices to make Spiced Cider or "Spider". Now it's Treetop 3 apple blend juice, and personally I think it tastes like garbage.

[Peadar]

Starbucks changed the named from CAC to CAS right after they began to open stores in Ireland in late '05. This is the real reason why the sudden name change occured... The abbreviated CAC on the side of the cup translates to the Irish word for SHIT!

[canadiano]

I too was around in the days of CAC, and really hated the transition to the CAS (cinnamon dolce has no business being anywhere near apple juice!) For customers who want a more traditional cider-y taste, I recommend suggesting a steamed apple juice with a chai tea bag or, during the holidays, gingebread syrup. Sooooo gooooood.

[Zachary]

I think the Apple Chai Infusion tastes more like Apple Cider than the Caramel Apple Spice. The CAS is good in its own right but the Chai gives the infusion a spiciness like Apple Cider should have. Come in and order one from me :)

[Me]

I cannot seem to find apple cider in So CAL. Every Starbucks that I have went to between the Los Angeles, Long Beach and Gardena area has no apple juice!! This disappoints me

[Civil Coffee Man]

I love it when school's out! I mean, every morning during the semester I have to stand in line behind 20-25 college students wasting around 20-30 minutes. But when school's out there's practically no one in line except locals and neighbors. It's great, for a couple weeks.