Two free ounces of coffee for a regular customer? We can't allow that here!

As a daily customer of Starbucks, I see a lot of good and bad things about the chain, and I should probably write more about my daily experiences in the several stores I visit each day. Here's today's little anecdote: At the Chicago/Dempster Starbucks in Evanston, I ordered a "tall Sumatra for here." The young, alt-rockerish barista got the coffee and put it on the counter for his colleague to ring up. Here's the exchange that followed:
ME to an assistant manager I'm told is Natalie: "A tall Sumatra for here."
NATALIE: "That's a grande."
ME: "I asked for a tall."
Natalie then took the cup, turned around to the sink behind her and dumped about two-ounces of coffee into the sink and handed me -- a regular customer who pays with a Starbucks card -- the cup.
About 15 minutes later I went up for a refill and told Natalie that half-to-3/4 full is fine. She gave me no more than a half-cup.
ME: "If you hadn't tossed the two-ounces, it would have all evened out at the end."
NATALIE: (Silence.)
(Natalie, by the way, is the same Starbucks employee who didn't want to bother doing a French Press -- that's recounted a few posts below -- and insisted that Gold Coast tasted just like French Press coffee.)
And that's today's amusing Starbucks experience story.
(On a positive note, the African-American woman who recently started working at the Chicago/Main Starbucks in Evanston is the greatest; promote her quickly, Starbucks.)

Comments

And what about surprise and delight? Is this still going?

[Lucky McBucky]

That's more like it!!!

Finally some posts from Partners that understand the reason why we open our doors everyday! I would imagine that the Partners at the stores overseen by the "DM who cares" are scared to death when they see him/her coming. There are as many GOOD reasons to provide the drink to the customers as there are potential P&AP issues. It needs to be taken on a case by case basis and discussed from there. Alot of what we do is not "black and white" but very, very Gray.

To any and all Partners that intentionally make "mistakes" to give them away, it is only a matter of time until the practice catches up to you. The rest can not be second guessing their decisions around "just say yes", otherwise they will hesitate to do the right thing for fear of "getting fired".

It is called leadership through fear.

[SM]

"DM Who Cares" -
You are way out of line discussing your policies and thoughts with baristas, managers, and the public in this forum. I can't believe you are actually a DM, and if you are, you have clearly not been with Starbucks long. "Care to share the name of your store?" Is that really your jurisdiction? Not at all.
You are a bully.
I'm glad you're not my DM.

[DM WHO CARES IS FULL OF SH*T]

Ha Ha DM who cares you are so full of it! You are like a free coffee nazi. Do you relize that by giving someone an upsize you lose maybe 30 cents, but when they come back for more service how much are you gaining? Lots more, plus the people they tell.

Can we "Just Say Yes"? Wow it seems that if starbucks was that concerned about giving things away there would be no "just say yes". And please, since you are so almighty, share with us your district so we can all come work for you, cause you sound GREAT!

[rainey]

I have never visited here before but may I say that District Manager Who Cares makes me think that I'm glad we have Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf and Peet's Coffee in my area as alternatives.

For one thing, Starbucks is mighty expensive coffee by any measure. If it isn't served as part of a positive experience, what's the point of paying that extra premium price. Generally speaking, my experience of Starbucks is cordial and highly respectful of customers and that's why I go back. At any time I felt I was treated in a snotty manner by a barista I'd want to know that he/she was the exception to the rule and NOT that his/her petty behavior was going to be backed up by corporate policy that put 2¢ of profit above hospitality.

For another, if your statement is that your coffee is of so little value that pouring it down a drain is an acceptable alternative to letting a regular customer enjoy it, I ask myself why I'd be willing to pay a premium price for what you consider trash.

Finally, I hope everyone who uses a prepaid card remembers to take a quarter or 50¢ out of their pockets to tip the warm and responsive barristas you encounter. Those cards have two purposes — neither of which is to the advantage of the human beings on either side of the transaction. One is to keep employees from pocketing cash and the other is to remove the consumers' option of choosing other retailers. I say, put the "human" back into the transaction even at the cost of some marginal loss.

People like the barrista in question and District Manager Who Cares are Starbuck's worst possible face. I hope that they're the exception but anytime I think they're not, I'm brewing a pot of tea at home or heading off to CB&TL or Peet's (both of whom, as it turns out, have much superior tea).

[TonySan]

First of all, Webmaster, I feel really bad for how you were treated. You were definitely not given legendary service and that really sucks. There are those of us who try to give every customer legendary service (Yes, yes, I know it's hard) and to hear stories like this, it honestly pisses me off because I see it as someone else undermining the work that those of us who care do.

I think that the one element that seems to have been the primary cause is the blatant lack of communication on Natalie's part. A simple explanation such as, "I'm sorry we're out of tall for here mugs but if you'd like I can discard the excess or give you the grande for the price of the tall" would have eliminated this problem.

Communication, people, that's the key. Our customers are not children, they are educated adults who can make their own decisions. Let's treat them with the Respect and Dignity that our guiding principles begin with.

And that's my 2 cents. =0)

[STARBUCKS GOSSIP webmaster]

A quick update: Today I worked out of the Starbucks on Waukegan Rd./Lake Cook Rd. in Deerfield. I asked -- again -- for a "tall Sumatra for here." I was served coffee in the same size ceramic cup as yesterday, and it was filled to the top. Everything was fine. I got legendary service -- not "Natalie service."

[coffeeguy :)]

glad to hear it.

[Cozywinter32]

What does it mean when you order "for here"? I have always received the paper cups, i never knew there was such thing as a ceramic cup?

[Java Slinger]

Consider that 2oz an investment... You can't buy the loyalty some Starbucks customers show, but you can scare them off.

[MISTA CAWFEE]

The baristas at mine have never done that. Occasionally they'll even "upgrade" it without charging me for it.

[Jason]

Webmaster,

First I'd like to apologize at how some of the partners on this forum are acting, and for Natalie's nehavior in the store you visited. At my store, anytime we accidently make a size larger than what the customer ordered, it's just going to go to waste, so we give the customer that size. As far as I know, that's standard practice in ALL Stores. If not, then the partners running/staffed at that store arent A) Using their behaviors and B) Not developing Enthusiastically Satisfied Customers. It was pretty crappy of that partner. Too bad you're not a customer at my store! :-)

Goodwill begets goodwill.

What you have here is a classic example of poor behavior (Natalie) followed by poor behavior (Webmaster). What gets me is that you have some baristas on here just screaming, "I'm sorry","Wish you were in my store", "On behalf of Starbucks, I apologize". Blah blah blah. The problem is letting customers get away with crap like this and you perpetuate poor behavior that never gets checked. I see it all the time in my store. Some of the partners I work with seem to love to get walked all over by sassy customers who think you are "just" a barista. Then my coworkers just smile with glee and wish them a happy day. Good grief. You wonder why there are Natialie's in Starbucks?

Natalie may be an ass, but the bigger ass is the one who escalates it. Just my opinion. Of course I was never there. For all we know, this whole episode may be fictitious. Terminate Natalie, and have a discussion with this customer to lose his snippy attitude. Or else find another coffee shop.

"If you hadn't tossed the two-ounces, it would have all evened out at the end."

Yeah a real wise ass. If you had said that to me I would have been silent too. But I would have added a little smirk of "You just got yourself blacklisted".

Excuse me now while I get ready for my fouth Partner of the Month Award here on the coast! Oh and about upgrades, I give them. But I decide who gets them and your damn straight I charge for it! :)

Moral of this story? Weed out the bad partners in your store. As for snippy customers with attitude, you call them on it right there! Talk about silence! It stops them right in their tracks!

[Deusx]

I don't think the Webmaster was being snippy really. Like I said before, it felt like HERE he expressed some entitlement, but at the store, Natalie should be bitch slapped with the star skills manual (around here we call that using the pointy part of the star). I've been tempted for days now to call that store and ask to speak to Natalie so I could genially and respectfully ask her what the hell her problem is.

Oh my gosh, do it, that would be awesome.. let us know how it goes!

"For another, if your statement is that your coffee is of so little value that pouring it down a drain is an acceptable alternative to letting a regular customer enjoy it, I ask myself why I'd be willing to pay a premium price for what you consider trash. "

Brewed coffee/drip is pretty inexpensive @ less than $2 a cup so yeah, its no biggie to dump it out. On the other hand, with espresso bevs you're paying $4-$5 because of the milk and syrups (and other 5-10 modifiers)...so...yeah, you're not really paying a premium price for drip coffee that sbux considers "trash"

[Barista to the Stars]

DM who Cares:

First of all, exactly what do you care about?

I DON'T hand out a grande when the customer ordered a tall unless it's my mistake. If I pull the wrong size coffee or make the wrong size latte it's my fault. And I'm not going to make the customer wait while I remake the drink, unless they want to. Nor am I going to throw away perfectly good, fresh product when I can sample it out and give someone the opportunity to try something different.

Second, not a problem. You want to know where I work? I'll tell when you tell. Post your name and district and I'll do the same, after I check your story.

'Cause I don't believe that you are a DM. I've never met a DM who had such a poor perception of Starbucks. Period.

So step up or shut up.

Barista to the Stars

[SM]

Starbucks Gossip Webmaster should not have posted Natalie's name on this website.... that's not playing fair. He's using his clout to expose her to everyone on the internet, and we all know there's some dangerous creeps out there.
Please think twice before doing that again, Jim.

[SM]

"DM Who Cares" has fallen strangely silent..... so let me echo Barista To the Stars.... "step up or shut up."

[dave]

Okay, seriously.

You order tall.

Girl gives you grande.

You say "I ordered a tall."

Girl corrects the mistake.

What was she supposed to do, ignore you?

[416barista]

DM who cares....

You say the barista who made mistakes, and I'm saying mistakes not giving away product on purpose, was terminated??

Wouldn't the fact that the partner was making so many mistakes go to show something about the training they recieved?? If they made that many mistakes I would look at who trained them and then look at the Store Manager!!

If I make a mistake, I do like Coffeeguy:) said and use the situation to an advantage. Inform the customer of the mistake and let them decide if they want the upsize or just what they ordered and make them happy!!

[cornfrost]

Guys: The recent posts seem to be missing the point, which is the pettiness and nastiness of Natalie.
I would note that it was her colleague who made the "mistake" of pouring a grande when the customer asked for a tall. I would also note that she is unnecessarily butting into the transaction. It really annoys me when any partner does this. Why is she second-guessing and questioning and micro-managing the the guy who poured the coffee? That's another problem.

[Brenda]

What is "blacklisting"?

Just curious...

[Lou Sussler]

This thread, like many others, keeps making reference to the amount of food and drink given away at Starbucks.

I would like to ask to whom?

I'm in my store 2 to 4 times a week since it opened several years ago. The Baristas know my order, I know they recognize me, I use the card but still tip once in a while yet I have never once received anything for free or even been upgraded.

In fact, the opposite occurs. My drink April through October is a Venti Iced Decaf Coffee. On occasion, they are out of Iced Decaf in the afternoon. The first time that happened, they offered a Venti Iced Decaf Americano instead. That seemed reasonable to me so I took it. They charged me for the Americano instead of the drip which was considerably more. The next time it happened, I just said "No thanks" and had a hot decaf instead.

I'm not saying that I am entitled to the Americano for the price of the drip. I certainly wouldn't suggest it to the Barista, but on the other hand these threads are rampant with people telling of how much they just give away. How does one get on this gravy train?

[DD]

Hey, "DM", how'd you get promoted to your position if you can't even spell correctly?

Deusx, I'm with you. And with the one who pointed out the math of throwing out the first drink and completely remaking it.

[Floormaster Squeeze]

I get a kick out of people defending Natalie in such a knee-jerk way. It is interesting that reference is made to a whole bunch of managerial insights/corporate philosophies/repeated-game theory etc.

The bottom line is that she (mildly to be sure) offended a customer. The only lesson is to try even harder to get the customer's order right the first time (and if you get it wrong you should be respectful and generous in response). There is NO excuse for dumping product in front of a customer (I wasn't there but I do not necessarily think it was motivated by spite but more a misplaced attachment to $*).

I have been at places where mistakes were made by staff in which they made me feel like a winner in the end (a smoothie place often asks me if I want ANOTHER cup if they make too much--no charge). That is just smart business.

[rainey]

Just yesterday my husband and I went into a Starbucks for lattes using our own travel mugs. My husband ordered grandes. When I picked mine up the barista told me the cup only held a little bit more than a tall so next time I shouldn't order a grande.

I appreciate that she made the clear to me but no one offered to refund the price of a grande and I can't tell you how many times baristas have just handed it over to me as though it were a grande.

Does this street run both ways, District Manager Who Cares?

Lou, iced coffee and iced Americanos are the same price.

[ej317]

I always have an opposite type problem. They ask me if I want room for cream, I say yes please and then they proceed to fill it way too full anyway.

[phranqlin]

When you give customers the benefit of mistakes made in their favor, you make them happy. Happy customers will come back to your store and buy a lot more coffee from you. They'll also say nice things about your store to their friends, who may decide to patronize your store instead of the one down the block specifically because they heard good things about it. It seems to me that this would more than compensate for the relatively small amount of product that would be involved.

On the other hand, when you act pissy and anal about mistakes made in a customer's favor, you'll eventually drive them away. They'll also tell their friends that your store has miserable service. All of them will go out of their way to patronize the store down the block instead of yours because you treated them badly. It seems to me that the relatively small amount of product saved wouldn't compensate for potential lost sales.

[me]

I have drank starbucks coffee............Honestly I'll never drink it again.I'll stick with my FOLGERS.

[Lou Sussler]

Really, I seem to recall paying more. I have no reason to doubt you anon but I may conduct my own pricing experiment.

[cornfrost]

Phranqlin, you make an excellent point.
I know that DM who cares is into that extra 4 cents per transaction, but there is enormous waste (and idiocy) that goes on at sbux, which I am sure costs way more than that. We routinely have one partner who takes his markout (and someone else's -- I actually thinks he sells it to people at his other job), double bags it in a small shopping bag, takes marked out pastries and double bags them, then double bags the whole thing in a big shopping bag. Basically, he uses six shopping bags three or four times a week. I can't remember how much they cost -- 8 cents each?
Not to mention the endless cups thrown away -- and a cup plus lid plus sleeve costs about 20 cents all told. And the unrotated milk that expires. And the idiots who make 10 whipped creams out of half-and-half.
So if the topic is saving money at the expense of customer goodwill -- well, there are other, better, ways to save money than to diss the customers.

[Karla]

I'm surprised by the righteous indignation of the barista posters. It's not that a regular customer expects something extra; it's that he expects you not to be a letter-of-the-law punk. The coffee-grubbing wasn't particularly warranted, and it looks like an ugly display of power.

[coffeemistress]

I agree Natialies name should not have been posted.Come on use a little commen sense.With all the horrible problems in the world right now this whole subject seems more than a little silly.I think webmaster has way too much time on their hands.

[Ron]

At first I was all on Jim's side, but on reflection it really does seem like when he said "I asked for a tall" that it could easily be interpreted as asking her to pour some out.
She should have communicated and verified, but I don't think she's the nasty evil manager I was thinking she was at first.

[Sheik]

Banker: "Here is your $20 you requested out of your savings account."

Customer: "I only wanted $10."

Banker: "My mistake.. keep a free $10!"

---

Hmmmm?????

[TWM]

FYI, the Blind Faith Cafe, the excellent vegetarian restaurant across the street from the Chicago/Dempster Starbucks, usually has excellent coffee.

[FormerSBX]

This is so funny...you would think this was a controversy rivaling that of a congressional debate. I am amazed at so many comments and emotion displayed over "2 oz of coffee". Bottom line: Policies dictate that you get what you paid for, but going to Starbucks is supposed to be about experience.

If a barista makes a mistake, in the instance of this account, they are within their "duty" to give the customer what they ordered, but going above the call of duty and making a lasting impression is the point here I think. Not a rigid adherence to guidelines- which is what they are- GUIDElines.

Can we all say…new topic? Talk about beating a dead horse!

[stickler]

I don't know the Starbucks code of ethics, but in the retail places I've worked, this incident would have fallen under the you-shall-benefit-from-our-mistake clause. Natalie thought the cup appeared to be slightly overfilled, but it sounds like she was just eyeballing it. Is she that much of an expert? She probably embarrassed the customer (by taking his cup and pouring out what she didn't think he deserved to get, despite the fact that another employee had just deemed it appropriate), when none of this was his fault. If Natalie has a problem with how much coffee her coworker puts in cups, she should take it up with him privately, not make a show in front of a customer. Can you imagine a manager at McDonald's coming over and, just as you are about to pay, grabbing your "small fry" off the tray and dumping out five or six fries before returning the bag to you? If I ask for and pay for a small fry (or a tall coffee) and I get extra, that's the fault of the employee, and that person may need better training. If I get more than I want due to an employee error, I am the one who should decide whether it ends up in the garbage or not. It all comes out in the wash (as they say)--Starbucks regularly underfills cups at customers' requests (when cream will be added), so they're saving money every time they do that.

Reading this thread, I'm glad I don't drink coffee anymore. Starbucks sucks!

[Brenda]

Well said, Stickler. I like your McDonald's analogy.

[exBarista]

Hearing a story like this out of context makes it difficult to really understand what was going on.
Obviously, the customer was offended, however, if that feeling is justified is impossible to determine w/o more depth.

As other coffee house employees have pointed out, it is not always easy to infer what a customer wants/means by only their words.

As a exBarista, I've heard comments such as yours from customers and every single one had a different meaning. For instance, a customer saying "I only ordered a small" when you see they have a large cup, in my experience has meant ALL of the following:

1. It not what I wanted, please take it back and correct it.

2. It's not what I wanted so I'll take it but don't charge me for more than I ordered.

3. I can't drink that much.

4. I'm in a bad mood and want to complain about something, obviously, your staff doesn't listen to your customers.

5. Wow. Thanks for giving me a little special treatment. You guys ROCK!

If you make a statement without a direct request or a gentle but explicit explanation of what you want that person to do about it, you leave them to read your mind and infer what it is you want them to DO (if anything). And often, when they try to do this, they will guess WRONG.

Multiply this by hundreds of customers a day. Suddenly, what seems like a simple customer service job becomes a complex blend of psychology, service and Psychic ability. Remember, they are often paid minimum wage.

When I was a barista, I worked for near minimum wage and my company treated it's employees like expendable cogs. Yet I LOVED working in a coffee shop and had great relationships with many regulars. Still, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't read every person's mind every time they came in. The good customers would tell me, in a kind way, if something wasn't up to their desires/expectations and what they'd like to see happen in the future. I did the same for them.

Also, in my store, 80% of the non management employees were part time teenagers and college students in their early 20's. They simply do not, and cannot, have the life, communication and work environment skills to handle the subtle nuances needed to be excellent customer service employees. Some develop those skills in jobs like these, others are simply waiting for the paycheck and don't invest in this job. You are rarely going to get the quality of interpersonal skills and business acumen from a 22 year old art major you would from a 40 something CEO of a large corporation or even a 30's something human resources professional, yet often people expect this.

Still, effective communication and respect on both sides made 90% of these errors of assumption (on both sides) not only go away but make us all feel better about our experiences. We all looked forward to our daily shared smile over a cup of joe.

The solution: don't make assumptions about a person's intention behind an action and don't make vague comments and expect the other person to infer what, or if, you want them to DO something. Be direct with respect and communicate your needs/desires. Telling your story here may make you feel better, but it won't do a thing for your Starbuck's experiences in the future. Do you want to solve this or do you just need to vent?

[Dave]

We're not defending whether or not Natalie was rude, we're defending the fact that she gave you what you wanted, and decrying that you were rude about that.

Here's the deal. WAY more often than not, in fact almost every time, when I've accidentally given a customer more than they wanted on a plain coffee, then they take it back and actually ASK me to pour some of it out. This is because they either want room for milk or room so it doesn't slosh around and spill over in the car.

So from the barista's standpoint, someone who gives us an attitude when they don't get more than what they ordered is just another rude customer with an unwarranted sense of entitlement. Honestly you're probably in about the 5% of people who actually don't mind having more coffee in your cup than you ordered.

[DT]

Stickler...nice try but no comparison. Natalie's defense (which she could have clarified i agree) is likely that she believed the customer wanted the extra room for cream, and was simply trying to give them what they asked for so that they wouldn't have to dump out the coffee.

It'd be like asking for a double quarter pounder with only one patty, and then having the cook at McDonald's open the burger (hypothetically in a totally sanitary way) and remove the extra patty that you didn't ask for.

wouldn't you WANT that to happen? rather than getting something that you specifically requested not to have?

[exBarista]

Continued from above post:

When I was a barista, I worked for near minimum wage and my company treated it's employees like expendable cogs. Yet I LOVED working in a coffee shop and had great relationships with many regulars. Still, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't read every person's mind every time they came in. The good customers would tell me, in a kind way, if something wasn't up to their desires/expectations and what they'd like to see happen in the future. I did the same for them.

Also, in my store, 80% of the non management employees were part time teenagers and college students in their early 20's. They simply do not, and cannot, have the life, communication and work environment skills to handle the subtle nuances needed to be excellent customer service employees. Some develop those skills in jobs like these, others are simply waiting for the paycheck and don't invest in this job. You are rarely going to get the quality of interpersonal skills and business acumen from a 22 year old art major you would from a 40 something CEO of a large corporation or even a 30's something human resources professional, yet often people expect this.

Still, effective communication and respect on both sides made 90% of these errors of assumption (on both sides) not only go away but make us all feel better about our experiences. We all looked forward to our daily shared smile over a cup of joe.

The solution: don't make assumptions about a person's intention behind an action and don't make vague comments and expect the other person to infer what, or if, you want them to DO something. Be direct with respect and communicate your needs/desires. Telling your story here may make you feel better, but it won't do a thing for your Starbuck's experiences in the future.

[ColdPack]

I've gone to that exact *$ in Evanston. Wow. It was a long time ago.
In any case, I'd never had thrown it away having not asked you first, as in, "You ordered a tall? Oh. Sorry. Since it's poured, do you still want that much, or would you rather I dump it?"
I was a bartender and that happened on occasion (you wanted a 12oz beer, not a pint? sorry about that... still want this? I'll charge you only for the 12 oz. Nobody ever said no, which I'm sure is no surprise to anyone.)

On the other hand, you wanted a tall and paid for a tall, Jim. And you got a tall. It's not really up to you to be outraged. They did nothing wrong. You got what you paid for.

Now, the French Press issue you mentioned?... now there's something to talk about...

CP

[just vente-ing]

Mistakes such as this should always to go in favor of the customer. A good manager would have acknowledged the mistake and asked you if you wanted the extra coffee before dumping it out and then instructed the barista (at another time if the store was busy) about the proper way to pour a correct cup of coffee.

Of course i wasn't there, but it sounds to me like maybe the barista was giving a little bit extra to a regular. Maybe Natalie was upset because that barista has a habit for doing that and been told before. That is still no excuse for what she did. She should have just called the "DM who cares" and got him fired.

I'd like that barista to be at my Starbucks. I get the ones that never seem to fill the cup high enough and then when you ask for a litte more give the "oh i thought you wanted room for cream" excuse. --and, no i am not a "regular" who always puts in cream. Hey, Starbucks DM, "shrink" is a problem in every retail business and those extra ounces probably do add up but i have question for you. Ever fire someone for consistantly under-pouring coffee?

If Starbucks is really that concerned about how much coffee goes in the cup (ounce and penny wise) then they should invest in machines that pour exactly the amount specified (1/2, 3/4 or full cup) and leave the barista's to make the latte's and macchiato's. That would also solve the refill problems.

[Java Jane]

I don't tip the baristas unless it's more than two drinks I'm ordering. I thought the protocol was that if you aren't receiving table service, you weren't required to tip...that a tip is just that, money for service above and beyond for counter employees...

Am I wrong here?

[Deusx]

I take it Jane, that you don't tip your bartenders either? Baristas are akin to bartenders, not food prep.