Independent coffee shop owner calls Starbucks "the best thing that ever happened to coffee"

Steve Barker, co-owner of Diva Espresso in Seattle, says Starbucks pioneered the idea of premium-priced coffee and paved the way for smaller, non-chain stores to follow. "Without Starbucks, I don't think any of us would've survived." The owners of several Seattle's independent coffeehouses say they've found success by going the opposite route of their big competitor -- making a selling point of being small. (Associated Press)

Comments

[Berry]

Starbucks coffee isn't that great. For a matter of fact, I think that Dunkin Donuts serve better coffee. And there is a small coffee shop that offers the very best coffee...if you're into very good coffee and not the fad of meeting friends at Starbucks.

Diva Espresso is The. Best. Ever.

It's soooooo good. Everytime I'm by the zoo or 145th I make it a point to stop in, even if I'd already had a drink that day. Yummy!

[seattle]

BERRY, if you don't like the "fad" of Starbucks and think the coffee sucks, why are you here posting?

[Susan]

I don't know..a fad...35 years...areally really long fad!

[Hankster]

Well, gourmet coffee's been around a long time, though back in the 80s, it was "Gloria Jean's Coffee Bean" that served it up in some the malls in the South. I first had Starbuck's in Seattle in the Mid-1980s when I was there on a visit and thought "This stuff is good, but expensive! Still, if they every branched out like McDonald's, they'd be HUGE!" And sure enough, in the early 1990s the first Starbuck's opened in Houston! WHOO HOO!!!

[Reinn]

He's right though. Where would the gourmet coffee industry be without Starbucks? I'm betting there would be a few thriving stores in local areas, Boston, San Fransisco, and of course Seattle. But Starbucks made it popular, trendy even. With an inferior product and advertising primarily by word of mouth, they made coffee important and that's been good for anyone in the industry...except the cheapys like Folgers and Hills Brothers.

[Cloud9]

Reminds me of the attitude indie bookstores had when all the ginormous category killer bookstores opened. "It'll be better for business! We'll compete by being smaller and better!"

Yes, I used to work/own a small retail bookstore, which is now dead and buried. And I watched dozens of other indie bookstores (some franchises, some not), disappear from the retail sky like the stars in Arthur C. Clarke's short story "The Nine Billion Names of God".

But hey, more people drink coffee/need coffee everyday than purchase books.

My bad.

I'm sure everything is going to work out juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust fine for ya'll.

damn straight he's right....they wouldn't be here without starbucks and starbucks started just as small as they did so none of this big business crap kicking out the little ones...

[Jon]

The difference between books and beans being that the more books you buy, the quality stays the same and the price goes down. It's the opposite with beans. And let's not get into training issues.

But that guy's got a point. The whole "Third Wave" coffee business that's been breaking out in the past few years is only building on a market established by Starbucks. I wish Starbucks would take a leading role again, maybe spin off a few stores into an elite chain with semiautomatic espresso machines and latte art. I heard Torrefazzione was like that, but if they ran with it... *that* would be another best thing ever to happen to coffee.

[Reinn]

Starbucks has done that sort of with Seattle's Best. Here is a chain that offers a smoother, less intense flavor of coffee with a special emphasis on customer service. Granted, all but four of the company operated stores use those nasty Super Automatic Verismos and too many of the employees couldn't care less about the coffee, but it's still a start.

[CuteBarista!]

bookstores and coffee i think are a bad comparison...mostly because the reason that small indie bookstores don't do well these days is because of amazon.com and cheap books on the internet, not Borders, Barnes and Noble and the like.

i worked at both the above chains for a cumulative four years, and i can tell you that the profit margins aren't too terrific in the bookselling business. i worked there during and after sept 11th, and it took about a year for us to get back to the numbers we were previously seeing. i'm sure cd and dvd sales are tanking right now as well.

[formerly "anon"]

Being here in Seattle, here are a list of coffee shops that are BETTER than Starbucks:

Diva, Vita, Vivace, Zeigest, Zoka, Ladro, Starlight, Bauhause, etc...give it a try if you're in the area.
PS...syrups are recommended when you get lattes at Starbucks, but when you're at any of these shops, you don't need them...real espresso prepared the right way is awesome!

[Jill]

Yes! Starbucks "created a market" to use a cliche. :) It is possible to make better coffe than Starbucks does, and Starbucks created and still creates a lot of coffee lovers - the kind of people who will appreciate even better coffee!

FORMERLY "ANON"

- Yes, you do love those small coffee shops but the minute they turn into 'big faceless corporations' all the little indie people that think they're so hip for finding a little known coffee shop desert it. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Jon]

Yes, pretentious indie-types who aren't into coffee aren't goin g to stick around. But, uh, what about the people who've noticed your coffee and service is better? The bigger reason behind smaller-is-better is training. I doubt, for example, that Vivace *can* expand into a chain. The owner, David Schomer, has said before that he doesn't plan on going huge. It's not that he couldn't; Schomer is where nearly everyone starts for training help. In the third-wave coffee community, Schomer is Elvis. But even he doesn't want to expand so far that he can't ensure freakin' hardcore, Marines-type baristas. For him, that's two stores.

Reinn, I've never been in a Seattle's Best before, and I have heard they're pretty good, but they're still not competing on the level of Diva, Vita, Vivace, et al. That's what I'm hoping for. I know Starbucks has the expertise and the ability to pull it off, not to mention enough money and marketers to sink an aircraft carrier! I suspect they've got it on the back burner and the reason they haven't already is because they've got it in their heads that equating the Starbucks brand with good coffee is their best strategy. I only hope for its own sake that they take a few nasty reputation falls at the hands of third-wave shops and other chains, and HAVE to resort to the Code Omega strategy. It would be great for coffee, great for customers, great for independents, and it could make Starbucks the REAL industry standard again. Training your customers to take Coconut Banana Frappuccinos and chant, "The Siren is CIVILIZATION!" is *not* a viable long-term strategy.

... I hope.

[westside]

Susan! It was great that you mentioned Gloria Jean--we don't have them in Seattle, but you'll never guess where I first saw them? Istanbul! I thought it was an Istanbul coffee chain, but then I found a location in Mall of America (MN). Rockin'!

Also, to the above poster, yes we have a lot of coffee chains here, and I'm sure their coffee is better (than *$), but I'm not picky. My order of preference is customer service > atmoshpere > product. I've never really been to a Cafe Ladro that had nice staff members. Maybe the original location was OK, but expansion didn't work out? They have this elitist attitude about them that totally turned me off. I love Vivace on Broadway, great staff, good coffee, OK "mood," and pretty art.

I totally agree with Barker, well, almost totally. Definitely there would be coffeehouses with or without Starbucks, but Starbucks & Co (national chains like SBC; Tullys) had the money to market coffee to a large audience. Hello America: Coffee isn't for ex-expats reminiscing about their glory days in Buenas Aires or Venezia. Back in 1993 when my sister was in high school, they all met at McDonalds. National burger joints were the places to go, and maybe you'd stop by Burgermaster or Dicks (listen to Sir Mixalot if you aren't from Seattle) for a "local" burger. Well jump forward seven years to my HS experience... where did we go? Starbucks. Where did we go for local coffee? Vita, Vivace, and yes, even Ladro. The author is definitely right about the "making a selling point of being small." A lot of teens (and adults too) love to be a part of the counter-culture, and at the moment, that means saying NO to corporations, and YES to small business :-)

So, in short (nothing is short with me, I type way too much, but hey, that's coffee for you!) I think many cafes would be here anyway, but Starbucks has created a larger customer base. Cafe culture has always been cool, but we're not all beatniks, and the easiest way to feel part of something cool is to buy a piece of it. Buy a mocha to go, or espresso con panna for here, sit in a velvet red chair, and listen to jazz. Whether it is sold by Starbucks or Diva Espresso, it makes you feel part of something larger.

Personally, I go anywhere, corporatized chain or indie cafe. I don't care, as long as the service and product meet my needs.

[Cali girl]

As a side note I have bee to indi cafes...their service and coffe are not consistant. At least at STBX it will be the same each time at each store. Besides I like a double roasted coffee for that extra punch of flavor.

[JustABarista]

I think the bookstore example is different. We have a local bookstore that is well renowned in teh area. Authors like to do their book signings through this store because it's indy. I even try to shop there. The problem with indy bookstores is the "We don't have that in stock, but we can order it, it'll be about a week". Indy coffeeshops don't have that problem. They have enough inventory on hand to take care of everybodies needs.

[JustABarista]

Jon, the availablilty of third wave coffee will not force Starbucks that direction anymore than local four star French Resteraunts will force Cheesecake Factory in to a better place. Each fulfill a role and purpose. In this dog eat dog, always running, never having time world, People will continue to go to starbucks for the speed of service.

[clemnacious]

Nice post Westside. You make a lot of sense...
The bookstore analogy is weak. Independent bookstores existed in large numbers prior to both the corporate chains and the Internet and the small guys' inability to compete with the latter is the problem. Starbucks preceeded most of the small coffee and espresso shops and really paved the road for the indies to succeed. Diva is a great place and the owner is honest and smart.
Seattles Best is Starbucks Pontiac to their being Chevy so to speak. Actually Seattles Best is older than Starbucks. SBC started out as the Wet Whisker in Seattle. Jim Stewart then grew it into Stewart Brothers Coffee but due to trade name issues changed it to Seattles Best Coffee in the 80s. He then sold it to an atrocious Atlanta-based mega franchiser of KFC and the like who put the brand in decline. Starbucks rescued it in a way, but closed the historic SBC rosterie near Seattle and made it into a primarily food service brand. NOw they are in a few hundred Borders (is it?) and will do well in that context.
Don't expect more coffee pioneering from Starbucks. Coffee is the base of their business pyramid and a very important product (no one in the company has much passion for those goopy sweet drinks) but as a business Starbucks will be even bigger but I don't think they have that figured out yet. Maybe entertainment, maybe something else. For a long term analogy think Phillip Morris (Altria if you will)--and how they are so diversified.

[-m]

This is ridiculous. Starbucks didn't get where it is today by selling bad coffee. I'm so sick of these wanna-be coffee snobs who believe have that NO ONE HAS GOOD TASTE BUT ME attitude. The masses have spoken; and they like our coffee.

[bkbean]

I am an indie owner in an office complex.a starbucks will be opening at the other end of the complex in jan 07. any advice?

[rista]

Starbucks Coffee IS the best thing that ever happened to coffee. Like it or friggin hate it, coffee wouldn't be the same in America without it. I despise people that 'hate it' and won't drink it, and ONLY go to other coffee shops. Those people are called morons. They were the first coffee shop to bring espresso to average uneducated Joes in America. Other shops were still serving good ol' brewed coffee when Starbucks was serving cappuccino. So to you losers who go get a latte at Sucky Ass Coffee chain, the ONLY reason you're drinking it is because Starbucks brought espresso to America and made gourmet drinks popular. This isn't opinion, it's fact. Look it up. By the way, to the idiot customers who don't know, cappuccino isn't a flavor. There's no damn cappuccino flavor. Most importantly, though, it's not something you get at a damn gas station. It's espresso, half milk, and half foam. Your damn drink isn't 'too light'. It's called a cappuccino, one of the most popular drinks in the world. Get a little class people.

[Theolaxor]

BKBEAN-

do nothing(except maybe work on new marketing strategies)

if you have a loyal following and sell a reasonably good product while maintaining reasonably good customer service you will be fine

starbucks isnt coming for the sole purpose to put you out of business, despite what others say

as long as you are better than most indie shops ive been to you have nothing to worry about, since there will always be those people who will want to support your product

[bkbean]

THANKS FOR ADVICE.i HAVE STARTED THE MARKETING PROGRAM. I GET ALOT OF COMMENTS ABOUT MY STORES ASKING IF THEY ARE A CHAIN OR FRANCHISE. WE TRY TO DO A GREAT JOB AT BEING AS PROFESSIONAL AS POSSIBLE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS. ARE YOU AN OWNER

[Anti starbucks]

they are letting success go to their heads. they walk all over the little people and buy out anything they can. Starbucks is putting real people out of business. If they want a location that is already occupied they offer so much more then the little guy that they can't even come close to matching it. That is bad business, Don't forget about KARMA it will get you and starbucks will go down. It doesn't matter who has the best coffee it is hpw you treat people and Starbucks is a monster, it is good to be successful but not at the expense of others. they can have their stores but leave the other along you have enough (remember hot n now)

[tomtom]

I don't know about it being a fad or a trend, "this starbucks thing" it is a form of facism and wanna be bourgeoisie, of Americans. Most Americans cannot see past their next check.
In Geneva, Swit. 4 blocks away from mainstream, and ten blocks away from United Nations, the starbucks is dead, 4 or 5 customers an hour!!(maybe Europe hogs up all the best coffee, and leaves the rest for America)
People that visit starbucks from what I know, put cheap gas in their vehicles, buy over-priced coffee! and live on Top Ramen.
A person can go on Ebay get 1 lb of usda specialty coffee (top 10%) for 2.99, UPS for 1.50per lb, roast it in your oven, and have a cup of coffee that is 2 or 3 times better than *bucks, for a 1/3 of the price!! then maybe afford terrorist free gas!

[tomtom]

The oldest dish in the Americas is mexican food The Chicken Mole or just mole! Which is a mixture of Cho-ko-La-teh,Ca-Ca-hua-teh (Chocolate, Peanut Butter) then add some red pepper and you got MOLE. Starbucks did not bring good coffee to Americas, they just mass market it, great coffee has been in the Americas for a while, mainly in the South of the U.S. of A. but like anybody is going to give the south or people that dont speak english, credit for developing great coffee.
These Morons that call people that dont care for *bucks, Morons. Are wanna-be bourgeoisie, buy cheap gas for their vehicle they owe, live in a classy neighborhood, and eat Top Ramen, and have this "look at me, with a starbucks cup" attitude
These morons probadly still believe that columbus discovered America, even though people were already here using coffee and it's cousin's (cocoa,ca-ca-hua-teh,cocaine) for medicinal, and/or spiritual purposes. Vikings that actually landed on the CONTINENT, several centuries before Columbus, knew about coffee, so the MASSES that spoke are ignorant, and don't have the ability to see past their next paycheck. It is these same masses that made december the 12th month, even though september is 7, (sept French) october(oct) like octagon is 8, november is 9 (nueve spanish, nef French)and December coming from deci for 10.
In the international City of Geneva, Swit. there is one Starbucks, and it is dead 2 or 3 customers an hour? They will not allow a Starbucks in The Forbidden City. City of San Antonio has 2 Starbucks in the downtown area, and both are very slow.
Yes, there is better coffee than starbucks.
yes starbucks did indirectly create the start of Fairtrade coffee (by going head to head with the world cornering coffee giants) and that help end the Columbian coffee bean vs cocaine farmer conflicts.
Yes, Starbucks was a good starting corp, but now has developed that "corporate america" attitude, small businesses are the backbone of America,
An Example of this statement is this, quickly name a starbucks corporate stylized farmer or rancher??? you can't!! but where do mcdonalds and burger king, red lobster get there beef??
Find a local independent coffee shop, support it, when on travel go to starbucks.
Something Starbucks will never do, is have excellent coffee making abilities, they don't have the ability, to get specialty coffee, nor make custom coffee (like setting the bars low or high, making cubanos, or making the coffee extra extra hot) or adding personalized powders that customers bring in to mix with their drinks.
ciao-

[Andrew]

Starbucks is already a phenomenon with regards to coffee. Well, they just have this strong branding. Also, they do have a decent customer service which I believe a very important thing in a certain business. I should know for i myself is into business at http://www.automatedbusiness.org

[Whitney]

I truely believe that Starbucks set the ball rolling with the Coffee "craze" but I don't think that they rule the roost. I would much rather go to the local guys in my city than go to a chain coffee shop. The service, the atmosphere, and the cofee is UNBEATABLE. They know me by name, they know what I drink, and they're quick and accurate. At my favorite coffee shop, the owner says, he drinks espresso straight. He does this to taste all the notes of the bean. He takes the time to make sure that his customers get the best flavored drinks possible. A great espresso should be great by itself, it should not have to be disguised.
Starbucks has good coffee, if you like it loaded with sugar and syrup to give it flavor. The regular coffee there is good. But the specialty coffees have lost their kick.
I think the small guys are going strong and will stick it out for a long long time...

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[Lisa]

From what I've read Manic has made a effort not to have wifi, which rahter than passively just not having it, irritated me that they're trying to tell me how to live, thus my active choice not to live in their store.