Managers at Starbucks rival Caribou Coffee say they're entitled to overtime pay

Hundreds of current and former Caribou store managers say they were more barista than boss and that they're entitled to overtime pay. A judge is going to decide whether the lawsuit can continue as a class action or if each manager will have to pursue any claim individually. Starbucks managers have filed a similar lawsuit and, I suspect, they'll be watching the Caribou case very closely. The Caribou case could go to trial as early as March. (Minneapolis Star Tribune)

Comments

[Chi-town's best/angriest barista]

oh boo hoo.
you're working for a freaking coffee company, what do you expect, gold plated office chairs and personal masseuses? really. get over it.
two of my very good friends manage a recently-opened restuarant and they have to put in ridiculous ammounts of overtime and work above and beyond pretty much anyone else there, but they don't bitch a word about it because IT'S THEIR JOB! to make sure everything MANAGES to turn out allright.
don't want to do the work? then don't take the job. give it to me instead.

but sometimes i think the baristas should start a revolt, or a poinltess lawsuit, since we have to put up with way more sh!t than our wages warrant, and i've seen too many of my managers (and shifts too) just sitting around all day, not really doing anything while we underlings deal with all the crap on the floor. (literally and figuratively)

Nothing will change until DM's actually manage the managers and not just the numbers.

[barockstar]

wellllll...

according to the article (which is the only thing to base anything on) it said these "managers" had no say in the "hiring, firing, promotions or pay".

at least by starbucks' standards - that isn't a store manager, but a shift runner - and therefore should be eligible for overtime pay.

sure there are tons of whiners (not pointing fingers upwards or anything), but these people have a legitimate claim if what they say about their managerial duties are correct.

[Chinchilla]

This is a tough one to adress. From a business aspect, I think that starbucks does well with not paying management overtime, yet in turn, letting them bonus based upon progress. However, how I observe the time that my managers put into this store and the loop holes in the bonuses that starbucks gives, I believe, ethically, they are entitled to more. I've seen my store manager put in a good 80 hours in a slower week, trying to organize all the things that she needs to manage and only getting on the pay role her 40 hours a week. The same periodically goes for my salaried assistant managers.

As for the Caribou managers, I believe that if they are indeed only doing the job of starbucks shift supervisors, they should get paid overtime. It will be interesting to watch this progress and see if it does have any affect on our Starbucks community.

[Chinchilla]

Chi town's best/angriest barista:

If it concerns you to the point of frustration, I would talk to my manager about how you percieve your management team performing. Confronting your managers civially is actually looked upon positively in starbucks. It's called leadership courage.

I've had this problem at my strore with two assistant managers. A good manager will take this as constructive criticsm and either explain to you why they have to be absent from the floor or take into consideration what you've said and try to apply it in order to better themselves. I' hoping in your situation, it will help them to better themselves and in turn better your understanding of how starbucks works and how your team works with each other.

The best way to approach them is to go to the shift manager or upper management that you trust the most and you think can help out the most and start out with. " (insert name), I'm going to excercise my leadership courage and ask you something..." Then proceed to ask them about why they're always off the floor and express how you feel. Communication is the only thing that keeps a teeam at starbucks flowing smoothly. If you have any questions or need any advice, let me know. I've had to have this conversation several times with management before and after I became part of "them."

hope this helps to quench the anger a bit.

[Boston Starbucks Rebel]

Sucks to be Caribou!

[Deusx]

Man the Saudis aren't going to like this!

[busilybagginbeans]

If a SBUX SM has to work more than 40 hours a week they have made a mistake in one of their managerial duties. I think the law suit and poor performance go hand in hand. A manager who beilieves less than 10% of their job activities are managerial (hiring, Firing, performance reviews, Mgt. meetings, inventory control, partner development, just to list a few)is most likely working 50+ hours a week. The fact that they do not perform their job responabilities leads them to have to work more hours on the floor. People working longer hours than expected is part of life. As a former collegiate athlete I can say long hours and hard work got me ahead, earned me a full scholarship to school and grad school and have helped me achieve some career objectives - working the minimum, as many of the SBUX managers in this lawsuit do, will never get you ahead.

[Lizzie]

STBX managers are not managers, they are glorified baristas. No manager should be at the bar or cash register (unless there is a rush to take down) the majority of their shift. It is correct that a standard of 40 hours a week should be 40 hours a week..the reality is STBX has part time managers with oversite from the DM. That is why in California they get overtime. I have worked several management positions in retail and STBX has the screwiest system there is for managing a retail outlet.

[Sbuxnewbie]

I've worked for three SM so far. I've seen them all spend about 10-12 hours a week on coverage, and somewhere from 45- 65 hours a week on non-coverage duties, including company meetings, conference calls, sorting out problems with the orders (what we ordered vs. what we got), facilities, vendor, local ordinance, staffing, inventory (what we use vs what we have storage space for), and neighborhood issues, including meetings, hiring fairs, non-profit donations, and the like. It can be frustrating, especially when the job they were offered and the job they have to do don't have the same descriptions.

At the same time, having a supportive, involved DM makes all the difference in the world - I'm talking about a person who stops by when he sees a long line of cars at the DT and a full parking lot, rolls up his sleeves and pitches in doing everything from taking the garbage out to cafe sweeps, discusses the importance of presentation and sampling with all partners, and sits down with the SM to show her how to work around parts of the ALS with non-coverage and training shifts, so we can work better, more efficiently, and with less stress.

I like my co-workers, and love all of the SMs I've worked with, and like and trust my DM. True, I've got less than 6 months with Starbucks, but the company has done well by me, and I want to return the favor. I only wish everyone could have the same experience.

CHINCILLA:
Great advice! You sound like a really great person to work with! :)

[Deusx]

Lizzie, Starbucks isn't a retail store, it's a food service store with some retail. The philosophy and practices are different. I challenge you to go into a food service business and find a manager who isn't working doing the same thing as his employees+managing them. Well, you can find them I suppose, but they don't last long.

[Scorpio370]

Well, I'm not sure about the other companies policies and what they require of the managers. My question is, are the people filing a law suit shift managers or ASM's/SM's? Any company that I have ever worked for, anyone that is an ASM or SM and above are generally salaried. You agreed to your salary. You knew that the you would be working 40 or more hours a week and during the holidays, even more hours. Sbux is different in that the ASM's get overtime if they work over 40 hours, the SM's do not. They SM's get paid more money for the jobs that are in their job descriptions. Also, there are some of the duties the SM does that can be delegated to the ASM as a learning journey for the ASM to get their own store.

The bottom line is, if you have a problem with the work you do, and you don't like the pay, then maybe that job is just not for you and you need to start looking for something new.

[Boston Starbucks Rebel]

SM's need to know how to delegate their responsibilites correctly. For example, if you have an ASM, develope their skills for ordering and the schedule. Assign a shift supervisor maybe in helping to determine the correct pastries to order each day. Assign another shift supervisor to train all the baristas and make sure they know everything. It's a matter of using all of the partners skills correctly. Delegating is a true sign of leadership because it allows you to get work done and also developing the skills of the other partners.

[CuteBarista!]

i'm a shift (new!) and i have been doing the pastry order for the past month...so i have to second that...

delegation is the key.

[coffeeguy]

That's exactaly what my manager does as well. She assigns roles to each shift and helps them to specialize in a certain area.

The store while she was on vacation was run for the entire two weeks only by the shift team without an ASM. Our DM only had to come in once to do payroll.

Honestly she's the best manager I've ever had and she usually only works around 45 hours a week with half of that being on the floor.

Her words "Well if I don't take part of what's going on the floor how am I supposed to spot what's going wrong outside the reports?"

As well she has a program where if a certain area is not working well aka "Security and safety" or "Deployment" She takes either a shift or barista whomever she feels is the best fit and assigns them the problem to fix along with the resources and a possible way of going about it.

9/10 the problem gets fixed and everyones happy. Love my store. :)

[j.ro]

it is against store policy for a shift to be doing any ordering. it's important for any ASM to do this, of course, for their development. i'm starting ASM training in Jan. so this is all very interesting. i like delegation too, but it has to be done according to standards too.

[Boston Starbucks Rebel]

For placing orders, what we mean is that the shifts work on the reports and then the SM reviews the report and ultimately plaes the order themselves. Ultimately, is the store manager is not delegating these tasks out to the ASM and the SS, then the workload will be overwhelming. I know of some SM's who bring alot of their work home with them and does it there or on their days off. If a SM cannot get their work done in the alotted time, then they are not properly using their time. My SM spends approximately 20 hours a week in front-of-store and the rest of time taking care of the administrative duties.

[Chi-town's best/angriest barista]

...wish i had better managers who knew how to manage....

[Deusx]

-Scorpio

It is ASM and SM's filing the lawsuit. They are taking advantage of how inane California labor law is and it will end up screwing everyone in the end. Example: Managers used to be able to manage their own hours and take advantage of flexibility now they have to keep an official record just like hourly employees.

-J.Ro I hope your ASM training better educates you to Sbucks policy. It is not against policy for shifts to do orders, in fact it is expected that they will, it is part of developing them.

well you both have it right...

according to the performance standards, it's in the SM's job description that they must 'own' all things related to the PnL....which basically means everything.

however the ownership can take many forms - like having the SM set the pars, and follow up on the orders that get done by SS...

when the shit hits the fan, so long as the SM takes responsibility - then anyone can really do anything...

[BaristaKitty]

If an SM truly cares about their partners and business it is nearly impossible NOT to work overtime. I know because I am one.

Delegation is great, but follow-up is KEY.

If you don't follow-up and coach (which takes an immense amount of time) you spend more time correcting mistakes which affect your team adversely.

If you are constantly developing your partners, like a good manager should , it requires a lot of time, nuance and technique.

The things a team can do that reduce the # of hours SM's have to work are:

Take care of the basics... don't make the SM repeatedly have to coach to the pastry case, floors being swept, spins being done, calling down the line, partners staying busy/managing labor...

and for heavens sake, clean the glass, keep your shirt tucked in, make sure the bathrooms are clean and stocked, don't clutter up the managers office or backroom...

No spin towels on the counter, clean the drains, wipe the counters, take out the trash, refill the condiment bar...

No personal bev's behind the counter, please...

suggest specific pastries with each order, sell more whole beans, push the promotional bev's (ACTIVE SAMPLING WITH PASTRY), control your cash, don't miss any punches, be on time, don't call in, read your schedule right...

stay deployed, know your recipes,rinse your pitchers, mark your cups right, learn the customer's name,
fill and straighten retail, fill and straighten RTD&E, read your communications...

Use the Duty Roster, Be back in 10, wipe the syrup bottles, day dots!...

Yada Yada Yada.... I feel like a broken record half the time...

but I do it with a smile...
and respect and dignity...

Even though I have about 100 other things I need to be doing that will affect the team (schedules, orders, partner reviews, inventory control, communications, planning, meetings, record keeping, payroll, answering to the DM, business reviews, scheduling classes, siren's eye, RMT and MIT training etc, etc, etc.

So every time your SM is coaching you for the umpteenth time about the same thing and you notice they are putting in some long hours...

Please don't criticize... just try to help them out a little so they can go home to their family.

Your SM loves you...

Just show them some love back so they can better take care of you and your team!

Thank you and have a great day! :)

[Chi-town's best/angriest barista]

that's all well and good baristakitty, but the probelm is, we're so understaffed that there are never enough people or manhours to accomplish all of that, and still make drinks and serve customers. and often, the people we have are new (massively high turnover rate) so they do need the coaching simply because they haven't been around long enough to know it automatically.
my problem with the managers i've deal with has been they expect ridiculous amounts from us meager humans, and don't seem to want to put any effort towards that themselves.
i saw hire a few more partners -ones that you know have good potential and won't quit after a week- and lighten the load for everybody. it's a lot more pleasant when we're not scrambling and trying to play catch-up all the time.

[ex shift]

J.RO - I dunno what policy you are stating. I have worked in 4 SBX cafes and been a borrowed partner in countless others. I have been at a store yet that has an ASM. The Shifts do the ordering - not just the count and the figuring, but the actual ordering itself.

As a Shift, I was responsible for ALL the ordering.

I asked for a demotion to Barista - I can relax a little and actually enjoy the job now. I regularly place orders if delegated to do so.

Caribou managers are managers...they deal with hiring, firing, scheduling, ordering, pretty much everything. My last manager was working 70 hours a week before he quit...he figured out he was making less per hour than hourly team members and supervisors were. I hope the Caribou managers and Starbucks managers win...the pay for these high stress jobs is not enough.

[Deusx]

If he is working 70 hours a week to run a coffee shop, he is doing something terribly wrong. This point has been hashed over many times.

I think that these comments about mismanagement causing the extra time is partially true, but the situation can also be at fault.

A low volume cafe store manager that is working 60 hours per week should really work on their time management skills or decide that maybe they are not in the best job for their skills.

As a manager, I knew when I started at a 24 hour, high volume, drive thru store that I would be working at least the 47 hours I signed up to be available for when I took the position, and there are very few weeks that I work less than 50 hours per week.

I think the best outcome of this lawsuit would be for starbucks and caribou to stop and take a good look at the structure of the management systems.

For example, my situation is different than a lot of managers. Those of us that have difficult stores are not very well supported by the company. The solution that the company has in place now for the manager of a 24 hour store, or a high volume store is to give them assistant managers.

I have two assistant managers, let me explain the position of the assistant manager... They are hourly salary which means they DO get paid overtime, so they can't stay late or cover shifts if something happens without the SM (me) being held accountable. They are in training which means more work for the SM to ensure they are ready for a store in 8 months or less. All of their training requires time for them and the SM off the floor or out of the store at classes. They are "managers" or at least viewed that way by the baristas so if they are acting crazy that is more work rather than less work for the SM. Once they finally get really good at being a manager they are taken from your store and you are given a newbie, and the process starts all over. Assistant managers are NOT the solution for managers with difficult stores.

[Potential Caribu Manager]

How much does a Caribu Coffee manager get paid???? I am interviewing next week and I want to see if I should go to the interview. Pleasae help

[baristagirl]

OH BOO HOO IS RIGHT!
I have worked for the company for six years as a supervisor and all I see is the managers and DM's sitting on thier asses all day long, drinking thier mochas and lattes and talking about what the shifts and baristas need to do, so they can get thier bonuses! We dont get any incentives, and sorry I dont count the free cheap ass tee shirts! Give me a break this job is easy and they are f****** lazy, get some work ethics!

[Tiffany]

I am currently a SS at Caribou and if i may caution anyone let it be known that this company is known well for the sucky management. My own store manager was hired on the spot as a store manager and went through a month of training before actually owning his own store. He had never prior had any experience running a coffee shop, but had previously been a store manager at a fast food resturant. The reason i am warning you of this is because i have recently been getting into heated discussions about my responsibilities as a SS and the responisibilites that other SS's have. I am the youngest of all the SS's on my team and yet do the majority of the work and have the majority of the hours. Still i am the person who is looked at to blame when a group of SS's are working and something goes wrong. And my store manager has a terrible habit of playing favorites with employees. As far as the whole break thing goes, i also have experienced 8-9 hour shifts with no lunch break or a chance to use the restrooms. The only chance i actually ever have is well i am cleaning at closing or right before opening. I was told when i was offered this position that i would be thought of as an equal on the management team. Instead i am their flunky who does the work that they do not want to do themselves. Worst of all my SM has not worked a weekend shift in 3 months. For most stores this is not a problem but ur store these are the busiest days of the week. Instead he leaves a bunch of SS's working together or worse just one of us with multiple TM (and our TM's are worse than our SM as far as brain power is concerned). Caribou needs to pull their heads out of their asses when it comes to hiring people and realize when their is these many problems maybe they should look to the SM before the SS's or TM's

[froggii]

Caribou Management is the worst job ever. I worked for Caribou for 4 years and the first time I was late (15 minutes) opening my store, I was allowed to work for 3 days before they put me on suspension. After the suspension I was promptly fired. I had nothing but promotions and positive feedback from my previous management in my Caribou Employee File. F___k them. I loved their coffee at one time but now I refuse to buy anything Bou. Who would want to when they treat all their employees like they are work mules?

[someone with aspirations...]

go to college and get a real job. who wants to serve coffee the rest of their life?