OPEN THREAD conversation-starter: Is Starbucks cruel to the turkey and chicken in its sandwiches? (And does it really matter at this point?)

PETA (the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) wants Starbucks to urge its chicken and turkey suppliers to adopt a less cruel method of poultry slaughter: controlled-atmosphere killing (CAK). PETA points out that Starbucks promised a year ago to pressure its suppliers to switch to CAK, but the company has done nothing more than send a letter out last March. (Apparently PETA hasn't heard that the sandwiches are about to be eliminated.) Discuss this or anything else Starbucks-related in the open thread. (Read the PETA press release)

Comments

Good. All companies should be pressured to, at the very least, raise animals and kill them humanely. Is it really too much to ask? Especially to Starbucks.

And before any crazy comments get left, check out www.meat.org and tell me there's NOT something wrong with that.

They're not saying don't eat it, just treat the animals a little better. Everyone can agree with that. Chickens and other animals are as smart as a dog or cat, it's just our perception of them that is their death sentence. They feel pain all the same.

I

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Some may say that they way the treat the "partners" at the store is like a "Southern plantation." And they expect the turkeys and chickens to be treated any better?

Nobody is saying that partners are treated great - but can't ALL life be respected? Come on.

"less cruel method of poultry slaughter"
Does ANYONE listen to PETA? Even when I agree with this orginization, they piss me off.

Yep, lots of companies do. :) Maybe you should read a little into them before you judge.

Just to quote a few..
Last year pepsi and coke both halted all animal tests and funding of animal tests due to PETA.
Also, fast food chains Mcdonalds, Burger King, Hardees and others bumped up animal welfare and even began using CAK.
Polo, Prada, Tommy H, and other fashion designers stopped using fur in their clothing lins.

PETA is relevant, and it's not even just them. Now a days everyone from Fox News to the New York Times are covering things that PETA has been saying for 25+ years.

Examples:
FOX covers the firing of Smithfield slaughterhouse workers after PETA investigation shows incredible abuse
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317947,00.html

NY Times covers the cruelty to animals and horrible impact on the environment from raising animals to be killed
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html

[RD]

I feel like PETA pressures companies to agree to their demands. That's why not everyone approached by PETA rolls over and gives in to their protesters (and I'm sure there's lots of instances that the pro-PETA people here won't cover). I'm all for animal rights, but there's got to be a better way than PETA pressure.

[DallasSM]

I am all for the ethical treatment of animals, but shouldn't PETA what us to not use the meat at all? I mean what is a less cruel means of slaughter?

Are you aware what CAK is, exactly?

Jamie Oliver showed this method on British television... Warning: the video is pretty upsetting to a lot of people. It had a pretty strong reaction in the UK when it aired, but it's something people need to see. We're so disconnected from our food-making processes that we forget chicken doesn't just come in little packages from the butcher. There was a life behind it at one point.

You have to watch it through a bit, but you'll get there. How is this humane?

I'm not really sure what the solution is for SBUX and PETA's request, but this can't be it.

[LW]

I think that PETA is trying to do something good, in a bad way. ooooo...a threatening letter. They should instead do a little more research on Starbucks. They should find out who is the food director for the nation and set-up meetings. Then do follow-up. Their point can get across in a more mature manner if they didnt publicly threaten Starbucks. I feel that PETA went in that direction so that more people would go to their website and read their articles, by using the name of Starbucks. If they would act like adults, they might be taken more seriously. Stop writing, and start acting.

[Hirayuki]

Credit for the cartoon goes to Natalie Dee, who asks for a linkback if you use her stuff.

So, I disagree with you, that mean I haven't done any research, or know anything about that? I know Corp America tends to do what they say, to avoid the negative public image, however, when you mention PETA to most people in America, they just sort of role their eyes. They have a political agenda, and know that a lot of the "info" they put out there is nothing more then political propaganda. Any organization that goes to the extreme measures that PETA does, sort of throw's there credibility right out the window, even if they are making a valid point.

[EXTRA FOAMY]

It apperantly doesn't matter the announcement made that we are doing away with sandwiches altogether..If PETA can slap a corporate name up there they will get a much bigger public reaction..

oh and natalie dee, i adore thee.

PETA does everything through the media. They don't contact companies, they send letter to them via media outlets. They are just a bunch of media sluts. They don't set up meetings; they go to the local TV station, or newspaper. There methods are backwards, and stupid, and they end up turning more people away then opening up eyes. I am against animal cruelty, but PETA does more harm then good imo.

People
Enjoying
Tasty
Animals

Sorry, I saw that on a t-shirt once and thought it was funny.

[Decaf Drinker]

Question for you all. 10:30am - not busy in the store, maybe 1 car at DT. Is there any reason it would take----say---- 15 minutes to make a drink?

Decaf,
What did you order?

It would depend what the drink is. Maybe, you ordered iced tea and they had to make another batch? Or maybe it was iced coffee and there was no more iced coffee so they had to make another batch? Did you order a decaf frap? They might have had to measure it out and then brew it and then use the rapid cooling method (RCM) to prep it.

[STARBUCKS GOSSIP webmaster]

DECAF DRINKER - If you pose that question and seriously want an answer, you're going to have to give more information. And I'd say that after five minutes of waiting, I'd pipe up and ask what's the delay? Did you bother to do that?

why are you asking this question in this forum?

Are you kidding me?

I am now fully convinced that the WM for this site is a fully biased tool.

Are you even capable of saying something even remotely positive about Starbucks?

Pathetic dude

[STARBUCKS GOSSIP webmaster]

>> Why are you asking this question in this forum?

Why can't he/she? It's an OPEN THREAD where you can ask/comment on anything Starbucks related.

"Are you even capable of saying something even remotely positive about Starbucks?”

OK, can you think of something good to say about waiting 15 for a drink that takes only a few minutes to make? Go ahead, find something "remotely positive" about that. The WM is being practical if you ask me.

O, and WM, sorry, I didn't the big bold "OPEN THREAD" in the title. My apologies.

[Melody]

Since this is an open thread:
I want to know who else has been to a Starbucks with a Clover machine and LOVED the special cup of coffee that they got with it?? I hope they make the Clovers much more widespread. I'm in heaven! :D

[SoCalSnowBunny]

I agree with PETA's cause, but they make all of us "sick" with the way they approach solvency. It may seem like they care, but they use more blackmail than they do partnership. Publicly denouncing companies is the easy way out...what have they done to partner with Starbucks on this issue? Come on, PETA, if you want me to care, then you need to work with the public, not against them (or their employers)

Anon,
I was talking about the thread starter topic, not your unusual wait time.

To answer your question though.......ever stop to think that the delay was caused, for whatever reason, to ensure that you got a quality beverage?

Enjoy your vanity

[HopkinsBella]

In response to DECAF DRINKER, there possibly was a rush that occurred inside the store, that took the staff by surprise, and they *may* have forgotten about their drive-through customer. A couple drive-through stores I've been to do not allow a customer in the DT to see what is going on in the store at all. And what was mentioned above regarding the making of decaf for various beverages IS a legit possibility, depending on what drink was asked for.

Also, was it really a 15-minute wait? Or did it just seem that long? I know that no one ever exaggerates things around here.....

What the larger "moral of the story" is this: mistakes happen. Sometimes a customer just has bad luck to encounter said mistake. And you just have to get over it. If it happens repeatedly at one location--just don't go to that location anymore (as I did with one particularly awful location nearby--that IS closing, BTW, after being open for less than a year--bwa ha ha ha ha ha!). If it was a one-time fluke and your day was "ruined" because of it, there is nothing that anyone at Starbucks can do to help you.

And seriously--if it was that much of a problem, why didn't you ask?

O, don't you worry, I totally enjoy your vanity!! I love it!

[Decaf Drinker]

I posted on this thread last wknd - saying the SBux I go to doesn't really have legendary service, in fact - it's always quite awful. I honestly wondered if there was any reason making a vanilla latte would take 15 minutes - yes, it really was 15 minutes....and you let me know if there had been a rush, making ice tea, etc...all makes sense and I'm fine with that. My drink was just a vanilla latte - sorry I didn't put that in my first question.

It didn't ruin my day at all - and I didn't complain because I wasn't in a hurry at all- and I certainly don't want to ruin anyone else's day. I did watch the ladies behind the counter and its difficult to see whats going on, but there were really no drinks being made because I was the only person in the store and DT was empty.

I really just wondered if it would take 15 minutes to make a latte! Simple - geesh - you guys think everything is a slam on you!

At any rate - I read about you all - and I wish I had some of the great barista's that you all are, but the store I go to has terrible service - always - every time I'm there!!! And I am one of the friendliest customers you'd ever encounter!

I wish one of you could come and work there so service was more of a focus or that maybe these baristas would acknowledge a hello once in a while!

[John]

We have had times in our store where the barista ringing up the transaction will forget to mark a cup or they assume the person at the bar heard the order. The drink never gets made, and the customer just waits there until someone realizes they've been standing there for a while. Especially when it's slow, you start chatting with the other baristas and sometimes don't notice someone waiting at the bar. It's not right but it happens.

I don't know the details of your situation. Assuming it was an honest mistake, someone would have made it for you right away if you asked about the drink.

[Keeping the Core]

DECAF DRINKER-
First, I apologize that you waited so long for your drink this morning. No, making a vanilla latte should not have taken nearly that long. Maybe there was a equipment issue, maybe your order was dropped, maybe???? No way for any of us here to know, because the partners who served you today either did not notice it took so long or did not care enough to share with you why there was a delay.
Thank you for caring enough to ask the question in any forum.

Regardless of the situation, waiting 15 minutes for a beverage is HORRIBLE customer service.

I mean, and there wasn't much information to go one, but since the customer's always right, was there communication about the wait time if the store was out of something? If not, there should have been. If there was, then at least that's something, but it's still a my-bad on SBUX part.

(Frankly, being out of something that you have on-hand but just needs to be prepared is ridiculous. I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I've gone into a SBUX and am told they are out of drip coffee! If you only had 2 or so pots avaliable to brew in, then that's somewhat excusable, but not wholly. Yet, this store had three brewers and three spare pots. It's just horrible customer service at this point.)

Anyway, regardless of the situation, SBUX was at fault here. The customer is always right and the store always wrong. That's how it goes.

How disappointing, honestly. But, SBUX seems to always be full of disappointment to its customers on a regular basis these days.

[Chris]

PETA should clean up it's own act before it lectures others.

[Vicki Verona]

Don't mean to sound like a Negative Nancy, but I think a way better topic to kick off this weekend is Howard's Bean Sales Incentive Challenge....

We haven't had a company wide contest like this in a very very long time. I also think its great that Howard is trying to stay connected with us because under Jim, I felt so disconnected from the senior leadership team.

[Eye On Barista]

Cute baristas! Does your store have one? Give them some props here. Who is it? What store?

[.]

Starbucks needs to start by treating its partners humanely. How are the terminations going? How many were axed this week?

Great point Vicki!

Why doesn't the WM offer something like that as a starter at least once in a while?

Long tenured partner here and I share your excitement on re-engaging, thx!

[Melody]

LOL. I tried to post about the excitement of the Clover Coffee machine at Starbucks but it was overlooked in the frenzy of a long wait at the DT. (see my post way above).greenapronbook.com

[michigan]

has anyone else tried the honey syrup that just arrived in our Seattle order today?? I think it is ridiculous to have this "naturally & artificially flavored" new syrup when you could actually add REAL HONEY (my emphasis) if anyone wanted it in a latte; but I guess that's what the r&d people do, come up with new drinks, I use that term loosely
don't even get me started on the leprechaun latte promotion coming up...

Does the honey syrup have "high fructose corn syrup in it?

Thanks!

[BroylingWaterBurns]

Michigan, real honey usually comes in those small packets, and that is really labor intensive(Opening the packets, squeezing, whatnot), and so on, not to mention a little unsanitary and whatnot, because of the fact that Honey is sticky, really, really sticky..That means you would have to wash your hands after almost every single drink, which would probably slow down turnaround time. Now, if you had honey in a huge bottle, with a pump on it, that would make sense, but honey is IMO a little bit stickier than Pumpkin Spice, or even Dulce De Leche, so who knows how the pumps would work in those situations..And, I've always noticed that honey is one of the most subjective things that we can add to drinks..Notice that no one ever wants the same amount of honey in their teas, and whatnot? I can have 8 people ask for honey during a shift, and I will get 8 different numbers, so imagine that with a latte..How would you set up a baseline recipe, with regular honey? Therefore, having a syrup, that tastes like the real thing, but isn't as thick, and is easier to make a recipe for, is just a lot easier on everyone.

And, on PETA. I'm sick of their crap. I'm all for animal rights, but a lot of those tree hugging hippies really need to take a class in the political process, and how to create real change. I hate to tell you, but our species didn't spend our whole time on this planet climbing the food chain, to just end up vegetarians. Blackmailing companies really annoys the people involved, and it just shows that they have no grasp of simple politics, or even business..I wish Schultz and Co would show some balls, and tell those twirps that we will run our company our way, and we won't, and refuse to let some outside organization tell us how we should be run. We have done a lot for the animal rights lobby, but we are our own entity.

[Drive, He Said]

JIM WEBMASTER, you are confusing warm and cold sandwiches.

Warm sandwiches will be eliminated. Those include egg, bacon, sausage and assorted breakfasty things. They come frozen and are warmed in those horrid ovens.

Cold sandwiches will not be eliminated. Those are in the refrigerated pastry case, along with the salads, fruit salad, bottled drinks, etc. They usually include some kind of chicken sandwich, like a chicken club or chicken tarragon. There is also a turkey and stuffing sandwich for Thanksgiving.

So if Starbucks is eliminating the warm sandwiches, that does not mean they are eliminating the cold sandwiches, which are a totally different animal.

[SoCalSnowBunny]

I'd love to hear updates on how the bean sale is going in other stores. I was in my neighborhood store today, and let me tell you they are planning on winning this challenge!!! I even bought a few extra pounds myself because they were so knowledgable!! Any other stores having fun with this? Any best practices to share?

I have a question about Starbucks' Just Say Yes policy...

As I understand it, it basically says that the barista is empowered to do whatever it reasonably takes to make a customer happy.

Yet, baristas have been going on and on about how JSY is subjective and how they will not implement the principle because of certain situations.

For example, the $1 short drips at the test stores. As far as I know, Starbucks came out and said if a customer knew of the test promotion, the barista should give the customer the deal. Then, baristas are turning around saying that the JSY policy is used to make customers happy, but JSY be damned they won't give the $1 shorts to customers, even at the direction of upper management.

I don't get it. JSY is there to make a customer happy, but some baristas won't follow the rule. I can't imagine Starbucks would treat a barista very well if they have this policy and the employee won't honor it.

So, my question: if JSY is there to make customers happy, even in unusual but reasonable request situations, is the barista truly doing their job well if they refuse to implement JSY? Also, it seems some customers know of the JSY policy; are they utilizing it directly by name to get what they want?

Personally, I think that if a company has Policy X and Employee A won't follow the policies set in place, regardless of the situation reasonably, they shouldn't be an employee. It's as simple as when someone's not doing their job, they should be let go. It's poor customer service.

The JSY policy is so subjective - and it's left up to the barista to decide what reasonable is. Like, for instance, somebody comes to you and says "my drink tastes funny and I don't think it's right... can you make me another one?" ABSOLUTELY. JUST SAY YES.

Scenario 2: A customer comes to you and says "my drink tasted funny - I want a new one," as they hold out a frappuccino cup that is empty except some whipped cream at the bottom. This is a situation that could go both ways. It would be obvious that the person drank it all and just wants a free one. This is not something that you should bend over backwards about just because a customer wants it to happen - obviously they're trying to rip us off. However, if the customer is pushy and insists, there's little you can do but say yes to avoid a scene. If they came to you with a full frapp minus the sips they took to determine it was not right, that's a different story.

Scenario 3: A customer walks in the door right at opening at 5:30 am with a cup that is brown, wrinkled, and clearly from the day (or several days) before and wants a refill. That goes against policy and is not a just say yes situation. Just say yes is not a magic policy that gets customers anything they want, however, it should not be blatantly ignored by baristas. That is why it would be hard to say "this barista isn't following the policy." It's SO subjective, and you yourself said the word REASONABLY. It's up to the employees to decide what is reasonable because, let's face it, some customer demands are NOT reasonable.

[Nerfebarista]

I think that guy was just upset that he got shut down going to a store for is $1 coffee. It's a JSY situation because they told us to be nice to you about it, but I have yet to sell a dollar drip because my store does not offer it.

I get a couple of questions about it but no one is pushy so its no big deal yet.

[Nerfebarista]

"We certainly do not want to add to your woes, but I thought it was only fair to let you know in advance that we are eager for Starbucks to make some real progress on this issue and intend to publicly pressure you if we don't see that happen soon. If you make progress, perhaps we could even get you some much-needed positive publicity"

Matt Prescott, Assistant Director
Corporate Affairs

I don't know who this dude thinks he is threatening (blackmailing) the head of a corporation that could pay to have him 'erased' from existance.

Chikins or no chikinz.. this dude is gettin hate mail from me!

[.]

Publicity is what it's all about. Groups like PETA, Oxfam and Fairtrade specifically target Starbucks and other high profile companies because it will make the news. I talked to some of the Fairtrade "protestors" outside the shareholders meeting a few years ago and they admitted that they know Starbucks is one of the leaders in paying farmers premium prices, but "this is where the media is".

You all are delusional if you think Starbucks could do anything to PETA.

PETA's went after pretty much anyone they want to for exploiting animals, and has never gone down.

ALL companies know this, even the precious bux. Thats why they agreed in the first place to look at CAK.

[I. Am. Legendary.]

Regarding the original topic...

In THIS case, PETA has a completely valid cause. The meat industry really is F&@!ed up right now... the way that most meat processors are killing animals is COMPLETELY inhumane. I could describe to you the most effecient and widely used methods of killing animals, so as to push 240 pigs through an assembly line in an hour, and even more chickens.

Starbucks, and other companies, should support meat processors that raise and kill their animals in a more humane way.

Now onto the fun topic... BEAN SALES!!

My store is getting REALLY into this. We are a high volume drive thru that normally does VERY little whole bean sales. The store is only a year and a half old, so we don't have to improve much from the past.

We almost always have people coming through the drive thru, so we're asking EVERY customer if they want freshly ground beans right through the drive thru. Most say no, but a high number say yes... and its easy to see how if we push the right items, we can increase sales BIG TIME.

I showed up at 5:00am opening and when I left at 12:00, we had sold 20 pounds... of which only one woman actually came to the window to buy a pound of French Roast. The other 19 were upsells. That's an extra $200+ in sales.

This contest is about the biggest IMPROVEMENT from before. With this kind of improvement, we got this in the bag!!

How are your stores doing in the contest? What strategies are you using to sell beans? Remember, we ARE a team, even though this is competitive. I want to see this bean buying week be a huge success. This week is the turning point where a lot of people will be turned on to coffee again!!!

Hoooraayy for Howie!!

[harmaa]

Go PETA!