Who cares when the coffee is "scooped"? It's the roast date that counts.

Jacob Grier picked up a bag of Starbucks beans at 9:30 a.m. Monday, May 12. He later noticed this on the bag: "Freshly roasted on: 5-12-08." What's up here? Grier was told by a former barista that that's when the beans were scooped into the bag, which means absolutely nothing when you're judging freshness. Truth in packaging, please. (Read the JacobGrier.com post)

Comments

[Peaches]

The barista used the wrong label for the bag. That particular label is supposed to be affixed to the 5 lb bags of coffee, which would say when they were roasted. There is a thinner label for the 1 lb bags of coffee that say "Scooped on:" and the barista who scooped them. The barista scooping just grabbed the wrong one.

[driftdaisy]

Ditto peaches. Jacob Grier would have been better off taking this up with the manager of his local Starbucks instead of posting a blog for publicicity.

[Melody]

I haven't noticed this problem elsewhere (I'm in Starbucks still though definitely not buying wimpy PPR). Looks like an innocent mistake to me. And I'd bet that if he went back to the store, they'd go the extra mile for him to make the situation right, even if that means different beans, or a beverage, or a refund. Legendary service! (Let's hope).

[a non]

Ditto peaches. Jacob Grier would have been better off taking this up with the manager of his local Starbucks instead of posting a blog for publicicity.

Posted by: driftdaisy | May 13, 2008 3:14:25 PM

Why? This is far more effective AND shows others that SBUX has major issues with their "revamping" that is taking place. It's all smoke and mirrors -- a total sham.

This guy is questioning a completely legitimate thing. The day you scoop some beans into a bag means absolutely nothing. They could have a bag from the main distribution center that's been sitting in the back for a year and still scoop from it under the current plan. I mean, technically, it's not false advertising, but it's still gross. Plus, there's no freshness there.

While I understand that SBUX has freshness issues due to its size and not every community has a great independent roaster (or, if they do, they may not prefer it), it's a fact that a local indie roaster who HAS the roasting facility within view of their shop is inherently better in regards to freshness if they do it right.

I'm happy to see SBUX posting a "roasted on" date, but seeing that the date is typically two weeks to a month past the current month, I'm still skeptical that you're getting a truly fresh cup of coffee. I rescind that -- there's no skepticism. It's not fresh, period.

Either way, this is a legitimate question. First, if the barista is using the wrong sticker that shows the poor training in the new roll-out and second, SBUX is flawed to show the scooped on date and until they can get the roasted date within a week of being used, it's still not that great.

[Anthony]

Why? This is far more effective AND shows others that SBUX has major issues with their "revamping" that is taking place. It's all smoke and mirrors -- a total sham.

Wow, that is SUCH an overreaction to a simple mistake.

[Sedg]

"Either way, this is a legitimate question. First, if the barista is using the wrong sticker that shows the poor training in the new roll-out and second, SBUX is flawed to show the scooped on date and until they can get the roasted date within a week of being used, it's still not that great."

Okay, you organise a national distribution chain capable of delivering to ~11,000 locations within a week of production. Better still, name another company of comparable size to starbucks that manages it. Two weeks from roast to use is a great achievement given the logistics involved - whether or not you think that is fresh enough for you is another matter.

[a non]

"Either way, this is a legitimate question. First, if the barista is using the wrong sticker that shows the poor training in the new roll-out and second, SBUX is flawed to show the scooped on date and until they can get the roasted date within a week of being used, it's still not that great."

Okay, you organise a national distribution chain capable of delivering to ~11,000 locations within a week of production. Better still, name another company of comparable size to starbucks that manages it. Two weeks from roast to use is a great achievement given the logistics involved - whether or not you think that is fresh enough for you is another matter.

Posted by: Sedg | May 13, 2008 4:30:13 PM

As a customer, that's not my problem. I pay SBUX to deal with these things AND to give me an excellent experience.

Freshness in a food-related business is extremely important. If anyone thinks SBUX is selling outdated product, then SBUX's image falters.

SBUX, as it grows, is responsible for maintaining its processes, regardless of its size or growth. Using the excuse that you're a big company is not valid -- it's still their responsibility to maintain excellent supplies when creating drinks.

You're trying to create excuses and pawn off SBUX's current growth issues as legitimate reasons for poor quality in beverages. It's not excusable in any light.

[badgerista]

Wow. So 2 wks isn't fresh enough for you? Don't drink it.

Not excusable? To bring delivery up from 6+ weeks to <2 wks is unexcusable? I propose that if SBUX were to provide daily delivery of coffee to stores again, y'all would jump down our throats for destroying the environment with gallons/lb statistics.

[chi-town's best angry barista]

we've run out of the "correct" stickers and had to put the ones we had on the bags. at least it's better than nothing. although we do get a kick out of putting fake.celebrity names for the "scooped by:" because nobody really pays attention to it.
as for food freshness, 2 weeks really isn't that bad considering how long it takes products to get from the farm/producer to the grocery stores to your house and then for you to eat it. and if you look at the "best by" dates on a lot of food you buy, it's often several weeks out. not much we eat is truly "fresh" anymore unless you pick it yourself or shop farmer's markets.

[beany]

I buy coffee every week and the 'roasted on' date is a key criteria I use in selecting what I'm buying.

If I can't believe the label, then that's a huge problem.

[j]

Wow...didn't know there were "perfect" people out there who never made a mistake. Life must be so boring for some that all they can complain about is a mistaken label put on a pound of coffee.

[DallasSM]

Why are people so up in arms about someone who mistakenly put the wrong label on the bag.

[DallasSM]

Why are people so up in arms about someone who mistakenly put the wrong label on the bag.

[DallasSM]

Why are people so up in arms about someone who mistakenly put the wrong label on the bag.

[z]

way to miss the point. people aren't up in arms about someone who mistakenly put the wrong label on the bag- it's that startbucks is trying to switch meanings and substitute definitions once again. starbucks is giving importance to when your beans were "scooped" which is nonsense plain and simple, to keep customers from noticing when their beans were roasted- an actual measure of freshness.

and starbucks employees continue to believe that it doesn't matter when beans were roasted, as long as they're in this magical "flavor lock" valved bad. again- this is the starbucks version of reality, as opposed to actual reality. nothing can keep coffee fresh for that long. nothing.

the original blog post was incredulous that his beans were roasted that very day by a huge company that historically takes months to get beans to customers- when told that the sticker was wrong, it should have been the "scooped on" date is where the real incredulity begins.

starbucks is the only coffee manufacturer in the world who thinks when beans are "scooped" matters, and hopes that because they're such marketing geniuses they can convince the world to pay attention to what they can control (when it's scooped) and ignore what they cant control (how stale their coffee actually is).

[wholahay]

Um, Beany, there are NO ROAST DATES on any of our 1 lb bags...the only one that has a roast date is PPR 5 lb bags...so care to explain to me how your discerning eye knows which one was roasted the freshest?

[beany]

Exactly why I wouldn't buy coffee beans from sbux. :)

[Eric Prince]

This is an issue that would have been resolved had their been checks and balances.

I can't imagine that no one checks stock at the end of a shift, day, etc. If that were to happen, it would have been caught.

The bigger picture is a minor issue that now Starbucks has to play defense for along with the screwed up Wi-Fi roll out, along with the everyday in the news Sonics fiasco, when are things going to get back to normal from a management standpoint.

[Melody]

Can someone tell, does the other label say "scooped on" or "scooped by" - There's a big difference between the two in what Starbucks is obviously trying to do.

"scooped by" signifies that Starbucks wants to give the beans a personalized touch and give you the name of the barista helping you. "Scooped on" means close to nothing.

Z, I drove around the area of 12th & Madison today and saw the Stumptown Coffee House there. There was no parking. I couldn't quite make myself go in. Then I drove up to the Wallingford/Greenlake neighborhood where Zoka's is, and I only drove past it, and again had no ability to stop and go in.

At my local Starbucks I see bags of PPR that say things like "roasted on April 28, 2008" or "May 1, 2008" - If today is May 13th, then we're talking about coffee that was roasted just 2 weeks ago. Compared to the standards that most people are really used to - grocery store beans - that is very fresh. And in any event, 2 weeks doesn't sound bad to me at all.

How do people make bold and italicized posts here at SG?

[smalltownsm]

I heard a rumor tonight about the Leadership Conference is going to be in New Orleans the end of October. Can anyone confirm?

[smalltownsm]

I heard a rumor tonight that the Leadership Conference is going to be in New Orleans the end of October. Can anyone confirm? I know someone had said it on one of the boards a few weeks ago, but it was supposedly on the portal.

[SBUX Person]

The other label has both "Scooped On" and "Scooped By" and is used on the smaller 1lb and 0.5lb bags for sale. They do not include the roasting date on them.

The larger 5lbs bags does not have scooped on/by however it does say the roasted on date.

I think in a certain sense, it does not matter that the smaller bags do not have the roasted on date on them. The beans for these bags come from the 5lbs bags displayed on the floor each morning. These larger bags show the roasting date, and technically baristas should be updating the "Roasted On" date on the board near the menus as the coffee we brew in store should be from the same batch as the ones that were bagged that morning.

Whole Foods Allegro coffee is put in the display bins approximately within 3 weeks of being roasted. Some stores, as my local one, roast the coffee that morning on premises.

Would be nice if Starbucks closed at 6pm the previous night to roast a fresh batch of beans for the following day.

[cupajoe]

A report today in one of the business websites that Warren Buffett has possibly shown interest in Starbucks? He finds great companies at a weak point and just buys them. The only way to stop such a move is to have the stock price rise considerably so that he does not see it as such an undervalued asset. Why doesn't management incorporate a more expansive stock buyback program with the cash rich position it sits in currently? Any thoughts?

[Jake]

SMALLTOWNSM: Yes, the conference is in New Orleans. http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/pressdesc.asp?id=869

[Darleen]

SMALLTOWNSM: Yes, the conference is in New Orleans

Oh well Melody, here I was getting all excited that we were finally going to get a chance to get to know each other. Maybe next year we'll hit Seattle. Hope all is well with you.

[jabanga]

i don't know why people are saying "scooped by" is an irrelevant date. its very important, actually. that is the date the seal was broken on the original flavorlock bag and when the clock starts ticking much faster on the freshness of the coffee. when i worked with starbucks we used to use the pricing guns to date the bags when we scooped them in store. without that, you would never know exactly how long it had been around.

[Ettal]

Wow... you ALL have had too much coffee. Take a deep breath, step back, and look at all the energy you have all expelled and consumed over this. Everyone go outside, get some air, give someone a hug or commit a random act of kindness... that will certainly make you feel better about whether your coffee was scooped today by Bill or if it was roasted 14 days ago in York, PA., or if someone put the wrong label on the bag.

If you don't like Starbucks then vote with your time, money, and effort and just go away... complaining only perpetuates spin, creates free advertising, and increases customer traffic... however, if this is your intent then job well done. I thank you for your efforts and putting food on my table and gas in my tank.

[Columbia, Barisita]

Look, the barista mixed up the lables, yes it happens there isn't much of a difference if you aren't paying attention at 5 am when you are scooping the beans however if the signage is changing at all, you have the roasted on date posted behind the bar on a sign. We scoop from the bags we are brewing every morning.

I think people are taking their coffee way to seriously! I have worked at other coffee shops and I have worked other retail and resturant jobs, however I have never seen on mass a group of customers so insistant on being pissy b/c someone miss labeled something or had something in the wrong place! Do you freak out about how your local Wal-mart didn't have you airfreshner where you thought it ought to be?

As my manager keeps telling me, it is just coffee let the bad leave however they want just make sure you have done your best to give them what they ask for... Do it with a big smile on your face.

[jason]

Starbucks is the Maxwell House of our day. If you want a decent cuppa while traveling you know what you are going to get. If you want really good specialty grade coffee go see your local roaster.

[pointy]

I'm not putting air freshener in my mouth AND paying $4 for the privilege.

Yes, I take it serious.

[Jane5]

It is not 'just coffee'. This attitude is one of the big reasons why Starbucks is in trouble.

[coffee love]

It is a big deal!

Starbucks needs to get it right - everytime - and exceed customer expectations.

Starbucks charges a premium for its products and services. If that's not happening, then take your dollar elsewhere to an independent or a competitor.

Jason - I agree with you.

It's all about marketing. It's all about Starbucks trying to "school" their customers. Scooped Date is B.S. It means nothing in terms of freshness of the product - HOWEVER this is a marketing tool to sway customers to believe the coffee beans are freshly roasted when in fact they're not.

[MusicGal]

Guys, believe it or not... this is NOT a conspiracy against you! Howard is NOT trying to cheat you out of fresh coffee! The baristas are NOT trying to confuse you! We're actually nice people, if you naysayers weren't always, well, saying nay!

BTW, Melody, the way to do italics/bold/underlined is by using these < > brackets, and between the brackets put 'i' for italics, 'b' for bold, or 'u' for underlined. Then to stop typing in the special font, type . Hope that makes sense!

[Melody]

Thanks Musicgal!

So 10,000 Starbucks partners landing in New Orleans. That's amazing. How does that work logistically? How do you put them all in a room?

I'm very confused. Maybe they should do it in waves. The Shareholders' Meeting used McCaw Hall which seats about 2,800 and there is an overflow seating area I think. So if you could do about 3 waves of 3000 partners, that would make a lot more sense.

And what is this new beverage in California that is "refreshing and indulgent"

Additionally, we will introduce a new category of beverage in parts of California that is both refreshing and indulgent.

Howard has referenced it several times, but not sure I've ever understood exactly what it was.

[colleen]

While I think it goes to far, it also goes to the lack of information flowed down to the store level.

Like we got ATT installed at my normal starbucks here in Seattle, but yet, no one seems to know anything about it. Or the fact that I have registered card written on my starbucks card in sharpie in big letters and I still get blank looks.

[An awesome homosexual partner in New England]

This message is strictly for A Non: Do you make mistakes? Have you ever made mistakes? Oh wait... YOU are a mistake. The partner mislabeled the pound of beans...It's a mistake. Is it the end of the world? Hell NO! Things happen! I truly believe you are out to stir up major trouble. And your higher-than art-thou attitude needs to go.

[jabanga]

"It's all about marketing. It's all about Starbucks trying to "school" their customers. Scooped Date is B.S. It means nothing in terms of freshness of the product - HOWEVER this is a marketing tool to sway customers to believe the coffee beans are freshly roasted when in fact they're not." -coffee love

again, the "scooped" date does have a definite and pronounced relation to freshness. maybe you do need to be "schooled". whatever ones opinion on the effectiveness of the flavorlock process, whether a coffee was roasted three days ago, two weeks ago, or two months ago, as soon as it is "scooped" from the flavorlock bag it starts to lose its freshness much quicker than it did while it was in the flavorlock bag. so, the date it was removed from the flavorlock bag is in fact highly pertinent. sorry if you don't or can't understand that.

[An Awesome Homosexual Partner in Washington]

Awesome Homosexual Partner in New England,

Well said!

[Melody - An answer to an inquiring straight mind in California]

Answer:
Howard Schultz?

LOL

[a non]

This message is strictly for A Non: Do you make mistakes? Have you ever made mistakes? Oh wait... YOU are a mistake. The partner mislabeled the pound of beans...It's a mistake. Is it the end of the world? Hell NO! Things happen! I truly believe you are out to stir up major trouble. And your higher-than art-thou attitude needs to go.

Posted by: An awesome homosexual partner in New England | May 14, 2008 3:09:56 PM

This has nothing to do with the mistake, per se, of the barista. It's a sticker, after all.

What I was mentioning, specifically, was the fact that Starbucks can put a "Scooped On" date on every bag, but it means nothing.

I don't really care how big Starbucks is... it still has a responsibility to get its customers the very best cup of coffee. Saying that it's too big is not excusable; instead of saying they're too large to roast and use within a week is just an excuse. Again, as a customer, I don't care what or how you do anything operationally... what I do care about (and expect and deserve to get) is the very best coffee and customer experience each and every time I walk into a Starbucks.

Regarding... so, the date it was removed from the flavorlock bag is in fact highly pertinent. sorry if you don't or can't understand that.

Posted by: jabanga | May 14, 2008 3:14:34 PM

Or won't. Yeah, I'm thinking that I want to know the roast on date and the date I'm drinking my drink. None of this useless "Scooped on" date mess. Why do I care when you took some beans from a bag that's probably been sitting back behind the counter for three months?

[carol]

To a non,
After reading all of your posts I have come to the conclusion that you wake up miserable, bitch people out all day then go to sleep miserable. I'm so thankful I'm not you or have to deal with you on a real life basis.

[Me]

Like I said before, Starbucks (and any other company on this planet) is NOT going to be able to make EVERYONE happy. The goal is to make as many people happy as possible. Apparently this does not include A Non for a series of personal reasons on his side. There is no reason for anyone to judge him for his preferences in coffee. Just let him get what he needs and wants. Unfortunately this has to be some other place than Strabucks. Focus on all the other customers who are happy with the quality we are providing, focus on how we can get better within our limits and of course focus on customer service. The last mentioned is a much bigger problem (at least in my area) than the quality of our coffee!!!

[Argentius]

While the other types of "flavorlock" whole-bean coffee in the store don't have a "roasted on" date, they've got an expiration date in the back, and you can go back from there to get a solid guess on when it was roasted. I think they put the flavorlock dates at either 8 or 9 months.

Compare this to EDB / "Pike's Place Roast." Starbucks guarantees that its stores get bags of EDB <=14 days of roasting. For PacNW stores it's often been within2 or 3 days. Furthermore, EDB comes in with other "high volume" items, daily. Every single day.

That means that, if your store's beans are older than 2 weeks plus a few days, the store manager is making some serious order-quantity goofs, and needs to adjust their pars.

In any case this is FAR better than the previous version: not just pre-portioned but pre-GROUND beans, having been roasted several weeks or sometimes a few months beforehand.

Yeah, it ain't the ideal perfect situation of having, what, a roasting plant in every city, with daily neighborhood delivery.

But, come on.

[Jeff]

Honestly, the issue with A non is he/she complains about SBUX and posits the company must give him/her the "best customer service" each and every time he/she patronizes the establishment. On its face, he/she has a point and I would venture to say that SBUX does that for each person who enters the store; however, if one reads the posts, one could, legitimately, come to the conclusion that A non doesn't patronize SBUX but, rather, goes to an indie coffee house for his daily fix of caffeine.

If that is the case, then any and all points he/she attempts to make about SBUX, the freshness, or lack thereof in his/her opinion of the coffee, etc. are irrelevant and become the rantings of someone who wishes to cast stones at the door, or window, of the company because they have nothing better to do with their time. Truth be told, someone like A non would never be happy with SBUX even if each and every store roasted its own beans every day. The issue for A non then, inevitably, would be that the roasting wasn't done to the taste of A non's palate and, as we all should have surmised by now, that palate is the ONLY one that counts in the world! LOL

[jabanga]

"Or won't. Yeah, I'm thinking that I want to know the roast on date and the date I'm drinking my drink. None of this useless "Scooped on" date mess. Why do I care when you took some beans from a bag that's probably been sitting back behind the counter for three months?"

clearly a company the size of starbucks is not where you should be buying your coffee then. go to your small local roaster if you prefer. i have a local roaster i enjoy. but that doesn't mean i don't understand the value of knowing when the bag was opened. it is my belief, and you can disagree if you choose, that beans one day removed from a flavorlock bag that was packaged two months ago is still fresher than coffee roasted 7 days ago that was never flavorlocked. coffee loses its freshness far faster when it is not in a sealed package than it does when it is.

[E-Dogg]

Scooped coffee is where they really made their money back in the day. The days when we opened a drawer rather than a bag and talked about what they were purchasing. I'm going on 10 years now and agree with the man; in which we're cookie cutter stores and host pre-packaged coffee. People get excited when they get to do their own dirty work by bagging their coffee or grinding it themselves. I worked in produce before this and had seen it there. The only security to my investment to this corp. is to stay in it for the long run.

[Melody]

E-Dogg,
Back in the day of truly scooped coffee, there were ,always 2 registers in every store, and one was for beans only!! Starbucks sold SO much in beans that there was a bean only register!! There was a slight benefit to buying beans, because if you walked up to the bean register wanting a pound of beans, and you wanted a beverage too, you by-passed the beverage line! Ahh, I remember those halcyon days ...

[Darleen]

Yeah but you guys are talking about when there weren't many stores and we could really share our passion for the coffee. Kinda hard to put the lion back in it's cage huh?

[sbuxman]

We are going to New Orleans Oct26-30th. Store Managers are so excited!

[smokey]

good morning ANON. how are you today? are you having your regular? venti pike place roast? okay, how about a muffin, or a scone to go along with your coffee? no, okay ANON, here's your pike place roast, OOPS, oh gee allover your legs, can i get you a cold towel?