Anti-Americanists in Australia celebrate Starbucks closures in their country

"Perhaps some of the critics are right, and a cup of Starbucks coffee really is a metaphor for Bush/Hitler-Iraq-Amerika-Oil-Halliburton (insert your grievance here) angst," writes Michael Scammell. "Then again maybe some people need to calm down, get a life and have a look at their own small-minded prejudices. After all, to paraphrase Freud, perhaps sometimes a coffee is just that, only a coffee." (Read the Australia-based Courier-Mail story)

Comments

[Nerfebarista]

Well really.. did we really think we were going to do well in australia anyway? seriously? They may like coffee, but what evidence, ever provided, told Starbucks that australians like the way americans do anything? anyone?

[Q]

Austalia was just ranked as the fattest nation on earth, just ahead of the U.S. So, I guess they like the way we stuff food in our collective faces. Kinda makes me wonder why hey didn't take to frappuccino's.

[Ken]

I like that comment that America should return to is "rat hole". this coming from a country that was founded as basically a place to dumb criminals. Funny stuff if you ask me. I didn't realize they hated us so much. I guess I'll cross of my "trip to the outback" as a place to see before I am dead.

[Tall Drip]

They don't hate America over there, far from it. They just hate Bush and most American corporations, that's all. Not the same as hating America. Bush and corporate America? I'm not exactly a big fan either.

[Ken]

Honestly, Corp America puts food on my table, as it does for a lot of us. I fail to see what is so bad about it honeslty.

As to my point, thanks for clearing that up. I always thought that they liked us over there. Thanks.

[Local Supporter]

Hmmmm...I celebrated when the local *$ closed. Does that make me anti-American, too? I think I just like freshly roasted coffee, properly prepared. Then again, I guess you could make the argument that opposition to corporate homogenization is, effectively, anti-American. Well, I guess I am then...

[Couldn't take it anymore]

I wonder how much the popularity of instant coffee in Oz plays into this...

[Smurf]

More likely the country's pre-existing cafe culture, fostered by population diversity (lots of European immigrants after WWII). When your customer base is used to European-style coffee from European-style coffee shops, a US-style 'experience' isn't necessarily going to take off.

Plus Australian labour laws actually require compannies to pay employees a proper minimum wage, none of this "we'll pay you a pittance and you can make up the rest in tips" rubbish. Increased employee costs were also cited as a reason for scaling back the Starbucks presence in Australia.

[ILVSBUX]

ROFL@ Couldn't take it anymore

[snagger]

What happens to the SBUX grand plan when people in China and Japan start thinking the same way? Will howard's rants convince them it ain't so?Better to save the market at home.

[CdninOz]

As an Australian Canadian living in Sydney I can tell you that Australians strongly dislike Americans. It's not just Bush and politics, they hate the omnipresence of American companies and American culture. Australians are hypocrites because while they're slagging Americans and China they're consuming American and Chinese products everyday rather than enforcing buy Australian - as if too expensive is an excuse for supporting nationalism.

Canadians make fun of Americans too but we realize that at the same time we love the benefits of low prices offered by Big Box retailers/franchises like Best Buy, Costco and the fact that there's the diversity of 300 million Americans so don't hate our largest trading partner. Australians on the other hand are arrogant and think they can do without USA. They are celebrating Starbucks closure but they don't realize as many have never spent time living in US that Starbucks was poorly executed in Sydney and nothing like the atmosphere of Starbucks in Seattle/LA/Vancouver/Toronto.

Forget the crap about European immigrants in Australia, where do you think people who inhabited Canada and USA came from??? Starbucks took cafe culture to the masses over 20 years ago.

Yes, there is a more sophisticated cafe culture in Australia but that's because Starbucks didn't come to Australia until 2000 and most independent cafes had filled a niche in the market which raised the barriers to entry for Starbucks. They also have Gloria Jeans Coffees (originally from Chicago) which they unknowingly embrace as an Aussie David vs Goliath story.

What irks Australians most is how so many Aussie icons were purchased by American companies - think Vegemite and Speedo. What Aussies don't realize is they didn't have to sell out.

In Asian countries, the younger generation wants to be Americanized, it's cool and trendy and shows you're on a higher socioeconomic level. That's quite different from how the younger generation in Australia view American culture.

[CdninOz]

Read this in BBC report of Australian closures:

"With more than 235 ethnicities speaking more than 270 languages and dialects, companies wanting to get ahead in Australia should be aware that they are not dealing with one monolithic block, Mr Urquhart explains."

This is another example of how arrogant Australians are. So Canada and USA only have one ethnicity speaking one language??? So how many cafes in Australia do you think cater to the 235 ethnicities? How many baristas at these cafes speak more than English?

[bdr]

As an Aussie who lived in the US for 5 years, I'm often surprised at the amount of anti-Americanism I find in my countrymen. It's complex, I think some comes from our generally cynical attitude to the US positive/gung-ho (not speaking militarily here) attitude. Whereas American's say 'why shouldn't I?', Australians say 'why should you?'.

Starbucks was priced too high for Melbourne coffee drinkers(over $4 for a medium latte) who have had a European coffee culture for some time. People here want their lattes, and they want good ones! I personally live 5 minutes from a coffee shop run by an Italian immigrant who roasts his own beans, and his coffee is beyond spectacular.

[Janelle]

I just have to say i am appalled, ashamed and embarrassed at the attitude of other Australians who are happy that Starbucks closed most of their stores here in Oz.

I am Australian born and bred and proud to be Australian however there is nothing to be victorious about if you lose your job. There were 685 people who are now out of a job and to think that people are happy about that - it just blows my mind!!

I live in regional Victoria and would travel around 37 miles on a fortnightly to monthly basis just to get my Starbucks kick. Both my husband and i love Starbucks, having been introduced to them a couple of years ago while on holidays in the States. They may not have been for everyone, but i liked the idea of "the 3rd place".

As for Australians disliking America and their people, yes there are some who do not like how Americanised we are becoming. I myself love America and believe that both countries, Australia and the USA have pros and cons and are both lands of opportunities for many. This does not give the people of each country the right to bag the other. I think there are many people worldwide who do not necessarily agree with the Bush administration but nor do all people agree with our current Rudd government. We are lucky enough to be able to have freedom of speech but that does not mean we have to resort to anti-Americanisms.

There are plenty of Australians who do love the USA. I have many friends who have holidayed (vacationed) there or who live there and they do not share this negative view. As said before, there are pros and cons, but what country literally has it all? There is always a negative and a positive view to all things - you just have to balance it all out.

I for one, am hoping that Stabucks will be able to re-group and re-enter into the Australian market and just maybe open in my town :-) I can only dream!! :-)

Janelle

[Janelle]

And yes now i travel around 52 miles to go to my closest Starbucks, since they closed the one i would normally go to......not happy Jan!!

Janelle

[Mikey]

Most American fast food chains don't do well in Australia, such as McDonald's. It's just not popular down under.

As for the Starbucks going into China, you visit any Starbucks there, they are busy. Mostly, the young, elite, wealthy feel Starbucks is a luxury than a necessity. It's a place to be seen. Starbucks there is considered, high-class. Not only that, their daily brewed coffee is about 2.5 to 3.5 times more expensive than in the US.

Just watched the news, and the average consumer in China considers anything American is high class. Who would have a thought a compact Chevy out in China is considered high quality, and a luxury item out there. GM is crap in the US, but in China, it's the best top selling vehicle maker out there!

So, I agree, China is where the growth is.

Been to Japan, and damn!!! the fraps and brewed coffee are expensive. Makes the US and Canadian prices look cheap. And yet, the Japanese SBUX locations are always busy...

[Bill Burt]

What's wrong with you people? We don't hate Americans; we just love good coffee. Get a life!

[Kat]

"What irks Australians most is how so many Aussie icons were purchased by American companies - think Vegemite and Speedo. What Aussies don't realize is they didn't have to sell out."
----- I think that's what I find most amusing and irritating of all. Don't want an American influence, then stop freaking selling out to American companies! I'm not really sure I understand all the joyous celebrating about businesses closing however, it's not like someone puts a gun to your head and makes you go there. It's called free choice, someone wants to go to Starbucks (or any other business), what business is it of someone else?

[Sane Beans]

@ Janelle - I really hope you are kidding and/or have a daily commute that takes you on that journey. Starbucks, on its *very* best day, does not make *anything* worth a 50+ mile drive.

@ BillBurt - Absolutely.

[CdninOz]

I was at the Neutral Bay Junction location (lower north shore of Sydney) last week when they were taking down the banners and closing down the shop. People waiting for the bus outside were clapping and talking about how Yankees couldn't make it in Australia. And this is a high socioeconomic status area!

It makes me furious that these people don't understand Australian jobs were being lost. Maybe it's the tall poppy syndrome, where Australians love to cut down successful people. I get told a lot that I'm not a true blue Aussie because I wasn't born here. My reply is "no, I had to earn the right to be Australian the hard way, by working for it."

Now that the Chatswood location has closed as well there's no Starbucks on the North Shore of Sydney so I have to pay $3 to drive over the Harbour bridge and then find parking in the CBD to get my tall non-fat 3 extra scoops, half-sweet green tea latte.

[Janelle]

@Sane Beans

Yes i do drive around 50 miles (86 kms) to my closest Starbucks, but keep in mind i do not do this on a daily basis. It's usually every three to four weeks or sometimes every five or six weeks - the Starbucks i used to go to (before they closed last week) was in a shopping centre and close to friends, so it was a great excuse to go window shopping and have a catch up with friends.

The Starbucks that i will now need to go to is also within a huge shopping centre - in fact its a DFO (Direct Factory Outlet) so again a great reason to go shopping :-) It is at the main train terminal in Melbourne, so as far as money/gas to drive there, it is probably cheaper to jump on a train and less hassle of having to find a park and city driving. I have yet to go to this particular Starbucks since my old one shut down, however i will be going in a couple of weeks time as i will be taking my mum back to the train/bus terminal :-)

The way i see it, is i don't smoke, i don't do drugs and i drink only occasionally, therefore if this is something that makes me happy and i enjoy doing, then why not?? I'm still saving a heck of alot more money than if i smoked, i know that for sure :-)

To each their own i say!! :-)

Janelle

[Gary Green]

Typical bloody yanks: Disagree with something they say, you're Anti-American. I suppose you do have to get over your small minded prejudices because the USA is a nation of small minds.

Don't ask them about History, Geography or Maths, it embarrasses them. Whatever their right-wing priest thinks, they think. They don't recognize fascism when they see it in the mirror every day.

$tarbuck$ is just another US corporation. There is so much more better coffee out there. Don't be one of the sheep.

[Damien]

McDonald's Australia is actually one of the most successful markets internationally for McDonald's. It is often a test market for initiatives later rolled out in the US (McCafe, healthier meals etc).

Reading a couple of other threads, the short closure times (up to 7 days within the announcement) made sure partners didn't have to trudge along, serving customers for up to 6 months knowing in the back of their mind their store was closing. Turnover and partner morale would have been terrible.

Every partner I spoke to had stories of customers who were so upset their Starbucks was closing. Clearly the Human Connection was alive in that store. All the "things" in the store, like the espresso machine, mugs and signs, may have made it a Starbucks, but the work and service the partners provided created the Starbucks Experience which is what the customers miss most :)

[C]

I just love it how the article says that Australians are stoked starbucks is closing and we all hate Americans.

I am an Aussie who happens to love America and Americans. But I know people who aren't big fans. All in all, everyone is different, thinks differently and it ANNOYS me so much that people generalise like they do.

Open your minds people!

As for the European tastes comment, most Aussies have relatives that link back to Europe and hence the European coffee concept works a lot more here than the American style.

That said, I loved experiencing Starbucks in America and would go back to check it out if I have the chance again.

The moral of the story? Open your minds to other cultures and for god's sake, STOP GENERALISING.

It's annoying that the outspoken haters make people think bad things about my country or yours.

[Anon]

The reason Starbucks didn't take of in OZ is because there is already a large population of Italians in the country. Real Italian espresso shops (like what Starbucks was founded on) are everywhere. I think whoever decided to open so many stores in Australia should have done a bit more research on the country demographics.

[SeaSideBarista]

I was in Australia just over two months ago before the closures, and to tell you the truth, Starbucks really wasn't that popular! Sure they had their fair bunch of regulars, but it was mostly teens and those in their 20's. To tell you the truth, they had amazing coffee in Australia, most coffee shops were using the glorious old bars that made DEEEELICIOUS shots of espresso. Starbucks was pretty much the only place though to purchase drip coffee, I was dying for a good cup of joe that wasn't a long black(americano) or a flat white (americano misto) and I finally found it at Starbucks, most places I tried to order a plain 'coffee' from had no clue what I was talking about! Australia had amazing coffee, it's sad Starbucks couldn't compete. Who wants a huge cup of brewed coffee anyways when it's 35 degrees out!

[georgina]

As an American girl living in Australia for the past three years, I can only agree with the comments that Aussies strongly dislike America and Americans. It is not just the Bush/war politics. I still haven't quite figured it out, I find it insulting to me and my family. What has America ever done to Australia? Did we hurt you in some way? Why as a nation do you find so much joy in putting people down? I say this not just about Americans but Aussies also love to put down other people and countries. Why is there such a chip on your shoulder? I had no idea that Australians hated Americans before I moved here. Cetainly, I knew that " anti american " attitudes would exist but had no idea that me as an individual would be insulted or that my children would have to defend themselves. And please, before anyone comments, we are leaving to go back to the US shortly since we have been so unwelcomed here simply for being American. At least there, immigrants are welcome.

[An Aussie]

By the way if I use "preview" does that mean I'm labelled a spammer? 'Cos huh? Why have it in the first place?

[Sylvia]

I recently received this email, so maybe this answers everything..

I know u love starbucks but read this....

.
> >
> > Recently, Royal Marines in Iraq, wrote to Starbucks because they
> > wanted to let them know how much they liked their coffees, and to
> > request that they send some of it to the troops there. Starbucks
> > replied, telling the Marines thank you for their support of their
> > business, but that Starbucks does not support the war, nor anyone in
> > it, and that they would not send the troops their brand of coffee.
> >
> > So as not to offend Starbucks, maybe we should support them by NOT
> > buying any of their products! I feel we should get this out in the
> > open. I know this war might not be very popular with some folks, but
> > that doesn't mean we don't support the boys on the ground, fighting
> > street-to-street and, house-to-house.
> >
> >
> > " If you feel the same as I do then pass this along.
> > Thanks very much for
> > your support. I know you'll all be there again when I deploy once
> > more " .
> > Sgt. Howard C. Wright 1st Force Recon Co 1st PLT.
> >
> > PLEASE DON'T DELETE THIS. .. PLEASE PASS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR E- MAIL
> > LIST, IN MEMORY OF ALL THE TROOPS WHO HAVE DIED, SO THAT WE MAY HAVE
> > THE RIGHT TO
> > CHOOSE!
> > Also, don't forget that when the Twin Trade Towers were hit, the
> > fire fighters and rescue workers went to Starbucks because it was
> > close by for water for the survivors and workers, and Starbucks
> > CHARGED
> > THEM! ! !
> > AN ADDED NOTE TO THIS: STARBUCKS HAD STORES ON SEVERAL MILITARY
> > BASES IN THE UNITED STATES. THEY ARE NOW BEING REMOVED BECAUSE OF
> > THIS.
> >
> > There are 227 Starbucks stores across the UK, and there's no doubt
> > that our soldiers would get the same response from this company, so
> > let us do our bit and boycott Starbucks to show them how despicable
> > their actions are.
> >
> >

[Sheila S]

They didn't need Starbucks, they have Gloria Jean's. I've been an American living in Australia for 8 years and I can't wait to go home in a few months. There is rampant discrimination here and they are quite outspoken about it, though some areas are worse than others (stay away from Sydney's Northern Beaches - Manly is okay though. Queensland, Tasmania and SA are much less racist and prejudiced than NSW) There is a definite mean streak in Aussies where they pride themselves on being prejudiced and picking on Americans for "fun". Has improved some since Obama, but can you believe they wonder why Americans don't want to visit here as tourists? And their companies are pulling out and closing down like mad here. The younger generation of Aussies and the senior citizens (18 years and younger or 55 and older) are not racist or anti-American. It's the spoiled brats, mostly uneducated and who take television as fact, who are the worst.

[Darrel]

Is there any coffee shop in the Mandarin Centre in Chatswood?

[Lawrie]

It's got very little to do with anti-americanism and everything to do with lower quality coffee at premium prices:

http://knowledge.asb.unsw.edu.au/article.cfm?articleid=1192

If it were about anti-americanism we would be seeing other american companies fail, which simply isn't the case.

I've lived in the US, Canada and Australia, and simply: expecting the US-starbucks model to take off in Australia is almost as ridiculous as expecting it to take off in Italy. There is already a more established coffee culture here.

Like the article says: if they wanted to succeed, they should have taken a different approach like selling cheaper coffee, or targeting 14 - 25 year olds who haven't established a taste for espresso coffee and will be won over by sweetness and marketing.