Claim: Coffee chains don't pour the amount of coffee per cup that's promised

Caribou Coffee fared the worst among the coffee chains, cutting several ounces from every drink ordered by Milwaukee investigative reporters. "Starbucks offers the most honest cup of joe in town but on average still fell short of the advertised amount," says this story. On average, the four chains -- Caribou, Starbucks, Alterra, and Stone Creek Coffee (the last two are Wisconsin chains) -- skimmed 2.3 ounces from 20-ounce coffee drinks. (Read the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel story)

Comments

[San Diego Barista]

If it's any consolation, we have free milks for people to fill up the other two ounces of not coffee. If someone asks me to top off, I've never denied them. I don't see the big deal.

[Pat Nerr]

of course the other side is the amount of customers that use the Free-Bar to get an iced solo or doppio in a grande cup only to fill it up at the Free-Bar...

I think the milk poaching is a wash...

[onethreethree]

well.... we have to make it up somehow for all the milk we lose to the "extra wet solo macchiatto" *cough* short latte *cough*

[Kat]

"well.... we have to make it up somehow for all the milk we lose to the "extra wet solo macchiatto" *cough* short latte *cough*"==========
By not giving a full cup to customers that paid for/want a full cup? This is their fault somehow? Sorry, while I realize things go both ways and some customers try and get away with stuff, if I am buying a 20 ounce cup of coffee, I want to be handed a 20 ounce cup of coffee.

[P.R.I.D.E.]

I can just see it now:

BREAKING NEWS: Class action lawsuit filed against Starbucks for filling their cups to the brim- thus causing hot coffee spills and really pissed off customers...

[yo]

hey kat...slow down....that was a joke. People that dont work for starbucks never realize the crap we go through every day....

[Deanne Martin]

Here is the other half of the reason we do not top it off. I was taught to leave 1/4 inch of room below the rim for milk. If the customer wants more coffee, give them coffee. But what about the customers who do not tell us to leave more room for extra milk and pour it out into our trash cans, creating A LOT wasted coffee in the trash and not to another customer?

[STUCKINTHEDRIVETHRU...NO LONGER!!!]

Kat: Have you ever filled up a Venti cup to the brim with 200 degree coffee? That's not the hard part. The hard part is trying to maneuver the drink over to where you can put the lid on without scalding your hand. Like the article said, a venti cup actually holds 22 ounces, to make up for the spill room that baristas put in there to avoid injuring themselves.

[Deanne Martin]

I have some battle burns on my own hands that I took instead of the customer. If you are one of the few who like it to the rim, try not to open it while walking. Like STUCKINTHEDRIVETHRU said, it is 200+ degrees.

[Robert Log]

This is the most ignorant 'news' story I have read. Most of these companies don't even sell their coffees by the ounce... last time I checked $tarbucks offers a Tall, Grande, Venti.. not 12/16/20 ounces... same for Caribou they offer Small, Medium, Large. To compare how full they fill their cups is stupid.

[Ms. Pants]

I'm actually surprised by this. A friend of mine worked for Caribou for a couple of years and they had people in periodically weighing drinks as they came up. (My friend was nicknamed Mocha Master because her were always on-the-dot.)

[Melody]

Robert Log -
There are standard ounces that correspond with Starbucks sizes.
Short - 8 ounces
Tall - 12 ounces
Grande - 16 ounces
Venti - 20 ounces.

You could, theoretically, order in ounces. I have a dear friend who loves Starbucks hot chocolate. She doesn't drink coffee. She doesn't know the Starbucks lingo for the sizes. Every time she walks up to the register and just says "I'll have an 8 ounce hot chocolate." To this day, I've never seen that fail her. You CAN order in ounces if you wish.

[SEADAVE]

I didn't read the story but apparently these folks have never ordered a "pint" of beer in a bar. I think the typical bar pint is 14 or 15 ounces.

There are standard ounces that correspond with Starbucks sizes.
...
Venti - 20 ounces.

Question of the day: How do you say twenty in Italian?

[SEADAVE]

Oh, and this all reminds me of being at a Tully's Coffee the other day. Tully's iced drink sizes are different than Starbucks'. A "grande" iced drink comes in a 20 ounce cup and a "tall" iced drink comes in a 16 ounce cup.

My wife asked me to pick up a "tall iced 2% latte" for her. I said, "Keep in mind, Tully's tall is a 16 ounce cup. Do you want a 12 ounce cup?" "Yes," she said, "whatever size a tall is at Starbucks."

I go into Tully's and I say to the counter person, "I want a 12 ounce 2% iced latte." She grabs a 16 ounce cup, and says back to me, "A tall 2% iced latte." as she marks the cup. I said, "Wait, that looks like a 16 ounce cup." She says, "Yes, but it will have 12 ounces of liquid. We use a larger cup to allow for the ice. Our grande cup is 20 ounces with 16 ounces of liquid."

Oh brother. I guess I should have ordered a short iced 2% latte for my wife...

[Koolaid Stained]

I suppose these are the same people who cry and scream to the Dept. of Weights and Measures when told the heat of the day 'expands' gasoline, effectively lessening the actual volume of a gallon! "That's false advertising! I'll sue!"

[Edgar Estima]

Huge reason why you don't get a cup full: When releasing coffee from an urn, it bubbles. By the time the barista fills the cup, puts the lid on, and hands it to the customer, the bubbles would've dissipated, leaving a little extra room.

[that_girl]

there are so many things at work here. most of you have said them already:

a) the coffee bubbles and foams a tad out of the urn, making it hard to see how close you are to the top

b) i've seen a lot of customers dump coffee into the trash, which annoys me to no end

c) i've also had customers come back and say "i want it FULL!" to which i would happily add another 1/4 inch of coffee and try not to burn myself...

i mean, sure, nobody wants to be dramatically shorted. but does a half-ounce of coffee really matter that much? i don't mind if my coffee isn't up to the tippy-top -- i do mind, though, if my latte has no foam on it (i've become a foam snob since mastering it:))

[Nerfebarista]

If yer worried about how full your cup is, specify that you would like absolutely NO ROOM. Otherwise, you get the standard, which is what I like to call 'room for spills'. It's not a hard thing to say, and even less hard to do, as long as there is communication between customer and partner. We are not mind readers, don't expect us to see into your thoughts and catch a glimpse of what your cup of coffee should look like.

Oh and btw, the time it took the author to write up this article, was a waste and he should be looking to regain that time, as I am looking to regain that lost intelligence from reading said article. Buh-Bye

[EX-sfbuxmgr]

I'm going to start going to fancy restaurants and start demanding they fill up the plate to the rim... what's with all the empty space? I want a FULL plate!!!! Same thing with the wine in the wine glass!!
::sigh::
If I ever doubt whether I made the right decision to leave, I just come to this website and reaffirm my choice. Good luck to you all!

[wzielenski]

Umm..did anyone look at the little photo to the right of the article? It says a venti is 22oz and a grande is 17... maybe they should get their facts straight before they bash sbux...

And a grande cup holds 16.5 ounces, according to the boxes the cups come in...

[closed stores]

I purposely ask for them to leave ample room. The coffee IS HOT. I don't care if I am shorted a few ounces. Makes me savor the ounces I have.

[are you joking?]

I don't remember any amount being promised inside of the cups. You can hardly say the cups are "advertised" to hold any amount, since many of the people I work with don't know how much any size potentially holds.
Starbucks never promised any amount in any said size cup, so you can hardly say "amount of coffee per cup that's promised" when there was no promise to begin with.
It's like saying you want your "solo espresso macchiato" filled to the top because the cup can hold much more.

[Rich]

areyoujoking: No, the size of the contents of the cups is listed in the nutritional information on Starbucks's website. See, for instance: http://tinyurl.com/6oab3g

[SPORK]

The only time it's even plausible for a customer to be shorted enough coffee to make them visibly upset is when they ask for a Grande in a Venti mild. Some people still can't figure it out inside other cups and by guess=timating you're going to get less coffee. The same goes I've found for Iced Grande in a Venti Americanos where the Barista isn't sure where to put the cold water to without the guiding lines. The only way I know is I spent a couple minutes pouring water from a grande into a Venti to know where the line should be.

[njbarista]

A few simple words with every cup of brew make everyone happy: Would you like room for milk in the cup? :)

[chris]

Then again, if you get your free refill with the coffee and a registered Starbucks card does it matter if you are shorted a quarter of an ounce or so? Oh, and by the way, yes I have been sitting in the cafe drinking coffee even though this dirty cup is from yesterday...

Oh, and I'm sorry, but it just irks me no end to hear people say they are paying $4.00 for a cup of coffee at SBUX. By golly, the only way to get a coffee to cost more than $2.00 is to have shots added to it. But then again, I was at the gas station and heard a conversation between two customers about how the machine made mocha tastes just as good as Starbucks. Yeah, I'm sure it does.

[Eleanor abernathy]

The coffee doesn't bubble if you hold the cup close to the spout.

[K]

What's the deal with people dumping the extra coffee in the trash anyway? I always say "no room" if the barista doesn't ask me first!

Also, how is a cup of coffee $4? I get a grande Americano every morning, i think it's like $2.05. And frankly, I think you're also paying for the pleasantries that come with a trip into Starbucks.

[stcrtemple]

"I was at the gas station and heard a conversation between two customers about how the machine made mocha tastes just as good as Starbucks. Yeah, I'm sure it does."
that reminds me of my mom, she loves getting her coffee at holiday stations. if you've never been to one, it is quite interesting to see such an "extensive" self-serve coffee bar in a convenience store

[Andrew]

I thought the size was discribing the cup size not the amount of coffee?

what if i ask for extra foam? then i get less milk, or what if i as for a dry cap and wait for the foam to settle? who cares, what a waste of newspaper....

[espressoblend]

b) i've seen a lot of customers dump coffee into the trash, which annoys me to no end

Posted by: that_girl | August 13, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Well, when I ask for room, I want room. You don't give me any room for milk and/ or walking space, and I'll throw some of it in the trash...

It seems like a pretty sweet deal for SBUX whenever someone asks for room, though... otherwise, it's just a waste for everyone involved.

This is not difficult.

[jabanga]

my stupid petty coffee story: (and i did work at coffee shops including starbucks for well over a decade) for those of you complaining about people dumping their "extra coffee" in the trash i have an extremely simple coffee order which is simply that the server leave me one inch of room for milk. that is how i like my coffee and if i don't put in an inch of milk in i will not like it as much. i would say maybe 25% of servers actually leave me an inch and the rest leave me considerably less than an inch. i assume most people know what an inch looks like. i have no interest in handing the cup back to them so they can pour some into the sink or any of that nonsense. i asked for an inch of room and if i don't get an inch of room the difference goes in the trash every time. i don't need the aggravation and it is not my fault they did not leave me an inch of room.

[P.R.I.D.E.]

It seems like a pretty sweet deal for SBUX whenever someone asks for room, though...
Posted by: espressoblend | August 13, 2008 at 05:14 PM

Actually, the cost of the added dairy is higher than the cost of the drip coffee, so it is not a sweet deal for Sbux when a customer asks for room...not a big deal at the end of the day, just wanted to make the point...

[njbarista]

I'd like more customers like jabanga. I'm always afraid to not put enough coffee in a customer's cup (hence the above article), so I end up not giving them a ton of room in the cup at the end of it all. Being specific makes it easier for both barista and customer.

[Herman M]

SEADAVE: let's talk beer. You know those oversized pilsners that most casual dining restaurants use? The Milwaukee paper won't tell you this since it's, well, Milwaukee, but those are the biggest rips in the beverage world. Sure, if you top it all the way off like the folks in the article seem to advocate it's 20 ounces. But every casual dining restaurant has a standard of one inch of foam on top. Doesn't sound like much, but because of the shape of the glass, that last inch is about four ounces. So that makes a "properly" poured pilsner 16 ounces. Just like a full pint glass, but a dollar more.

And unlike the coffee shops in the article, our friendly bartender will happily tell you they have a 16 ounce mug/pint glass (about 14 ounces actual beer) or the 20 once pilsner.

Can we get this paper to do a piece on that? Please? I'll go do the research at any bar they want.

[Gord]

Did anyone look at the graphic? The average amount short at Starbucks was 0.4 (for both Grande and Venti). Every single other one (except for the one 16 oz one) were had at least 3 times that amount shorted. Prior to looking at the graphic, I thought it was a lot more being shorted at Starbucks. I mean 0.4 ounces... that could evaporate in the time it takes to walk from the store to whatever measuring device they used. :)

[SEADAVE]

Herman M, I like the way you think. If you need a research assistant sign me up. [Big Grin]

Speaking of full cups, almost every weekday afternoon I pick up a former co-worker and we go to a nearby Starbucks for coffee. He usually orders either an americano or a drip coffee -- "with room". He doesn't add cream but simply wants "walking room" so it doesn't slosh out of the opening in the lid. Today's short americano (which he ordered with room) came filled to the brim. As he got into my car he went to set his drink in a cupholder, the bottom of the cup caught on the edge of the cupholder, the cup tipped slightly, and his drink spilled on the center console of my car. He was ticked that it was filled so full and apologetic about the mess. Funny thing is the partner who took his order wound up swapping spots with the barista right after the order was placed so she made his drink... and managed to forget the part about "with room" (it was written on the cup). No biggie, but a good example of why not everyone wants a full cup.

[Eleanor abernathy]

I don't understand why people care if coffee gets dumped in the trash. There are worse things to worry about. So it's a little messy when you have to take it out. It's trash! Don't you double-bag it anyway?

As for Jabanga's point---I don't think it's really all that easy to eyeball exactly an inch. I don't think everybody knows what an inch looks like in a paper cup unless they have a ruler. And the baristas probably tend to err on the side of filling it too high because they don't want someone to feel shorted.

I've seen some stores that leave an empty metal canister on the condiment bar (like the ones used to hold stir sticks etc.) to be used for spilling excess coffee into.

[SPORK]

Eleanor,

I can see why you might think it's not a big deal if there's coffee in the garbage bags, and I thought the same too before I worked for Starbucks.

In reality, straws, stirring sticks, spill-stoppers, and other various pointy items pierce holes in the bags, and thus when you're about to throw the garbage into the dumpster, and the liquid that was once coffee, but now has pulled down the remnants of other garbage with it spills all over you, you might realize that the coffee in the garbage is quite annoying. Many baristas hate double bagging garbages because it's such a waste of plastic, but we need to because the customer is either too shy to order room, or the barista is too absent minded to ask, or remember to give it to the customer.

[Jamie]

Can anyone tell me why I walked into my local SBUX yesterday at 11:15 am and was told I had a choice of PPR or PPR?

[STARBUCKS GOSSIP WEBMASTER]

Jamie -- I don't think anyone can tell you why because this is the WORLD wide web and you only tell us you went to your
"local" Starbucks. Any chance you want to reveal what city "local" might be?

[Jamie]

It's Las Cruces, NM. But does it matter? The store is filled with bags of coffee, and the crew can't be bothered to open a bag of something else in the morning and brew another coffee? Or is this is the new policy handed down from above, that in the morning as well as in the afternoon the customer has no choice?

[flbarista]

jamie,

maybe they ran out of the bold coffee and had to grind more. maybe they just sold the last cup and didn't get a chance to brew more. maybe someone just forgot to brew the bold because they were really busy and unfortunately you came in at the worst possible second.

it could have been any number of things, but honestly i think you might be splitting hairs just a bit...

[that_girl]

espressoblend: I should note that I ALWAYS asked customers if they wanted room. Always. Unless they specified "with room." And if they say they wanted room, I tended to leave a good half-inch and say "if you want me to top that off after you put milk in, let me know." Baristas are not mind-readers, and if you tell me you don't want room and dump coffee into the flimsy garbage bag which would inevitably tear, double-bagged or not, I will get a little irritated. (But keep it to myself, of course:P)

[Melody]

flbarista, Jamie is NOT splitting hairs. The barista should have been willing to brew her a batch of bold coffee, even if it meant opening up a one pound bag of flavorlock coffee.
The way I read Jamie's posts is that she was given the choice of PPR or the highway. That is not Starbucks policy, and definitely right here in the Emerald City, baristas will brew on demand for you. I got Sumatra at 7:30 last night (store that is open until 10:30).
If I were in Jamie's shoes, I'd possibly call customer relations and complain.
Jamie - have a look at this link here -
http://www.starbucks.com/customer/

Jamie - It is NOT the new policy to brew PPR only. That may be the only coffee they have ready, but they should brew a special batch of bold coffee just for you.

[Rais]

In our store, we generally offer a French press in place of a bold coffee after noon. I'm especially fond of this, being a closer in a non-rush atmosphere. Its an equal amount of work and time involved, (grinding and brewing), wastes substantially less coffee, and IMO makes a much better tasting cup.

If we opened a 1 lb bag everytime someone asked for a "bold" coffee, we would probably run out of bags to sell.

When people ask if PPR is bold, or mild, I let them sip a tiny bit from a short cup and let them judge for themselves. I'm not a huge fan of it, but it tastes good enough for most and so far, most people are happy that its fresh and hot.

Oh, and I thought it WAS policy to only brew PPR after noon. Or even 10 in some stores now I heard. We order twice as many bullets of bold coffee as actually get sent to us. I wish we could brew Komodo all day....*tear*

[Liz]

At the Starbucks I work at we were told to brew bold till 5pm. We are a big "brew" store.Also, we will suggest an Americano with extra shots(at no charge) if we don't have bold brewed.

[Alex]

Rais- It is policy to only keep PPR on hand after noon, but if somebody comes in asking for bold, you ARE supposed to make it for them.

Oh, and if that rumor you mentioned about stores in your area stopping bold at ten is true, they are seriously breaking the rules.

[Herman M]

SEADAVE, consider yourself signed up. Unfortunately, my research budget isn't much, so you will need to source and purchase your own scientific samples. Start where you live and work our way out in concentric circles sooner or later we will meet in a lab somewhere near the middle.

Welcome to the study group.

[Lou Sussler]

I always ask for "plenty of room" and only at my regular store do I ever get it.

The extra gets dumped in the trash. If you don't like it, put out a vessel to collect it at the dairy station as someone else mentioned above.

But don't be annoyed with me unless you can offer an alternative.