OPEN THREAD conversation-starter: What should Starbucks do now to satisfy all three of these groups: investors, customers and employees

Sure, it's easy to sit back and criticize a CEO for his/her actions, but try coming up with solutions that satisfy everyone. Put yourself in the CEO chair and give us three (or more) things that should be done now to put Starbucks on track -- moves that will increase revenue while keeping customers and workers happy. Give us your ideas, or discuss anything self Starbucks-related in the open thread.

Comments

[GOAT here]

"Finally, I would like to ask the Webmaster why he continues to let certain posters...and he knows of whom we speak...post their vile, venomous, vicious comments on this board without banning them or, at a minimum, giving them a verbal warning to stop hurling their invectives so freely. I was under the impression that such vituperative language was not to be tolerated!"

Keep in mind: one moment's censor is the next moment's censored. I'm always nervous when I hear people asking a 'higher up' to start selectively vetting comments. Why don't we just let the marketplace of ideas operate as it will - it's worked quite well for thousands of years. I think that anyone worth their weight on this board can easily detect the claptrap from the useful discourse. We're all grown-ups (more or less). One of the unique features of this site is the ability to so spontaneously engage in dialogue about a topic that - for better or for worse - nearly everyone here is intensely passionate about (some negatively so, but still passionate!)

[Wyfind]

I'm a fairly new barista and I really, really love my job. There are some bad customers that really frustrate me to no end, as I don't really understand how someone can be so mean and rude to other people so easily. I do my best to kill them with kindness and I always joke that I'm going to take my break to go and cry. Despite this, I still try to be friendly and ask everyone to have a fantastic day (even the people that are disgustingly rude and impatient). I may be naive or as some of you say "drinking the kool-aid" but I really believe in those fundamental principles that Starbucks operates on. I think that the whole world should operate on those principles: just say yes is fantastic, as well as being genuine, welcoming, etc.

I understand that Starbucks' mission statement is to be the finest purveyor of coffee and whatnot but I really don't understand the coffee elitism. On a regular basis, I have to explain what the difference is between a latte and a cappuccino. From reading this thread (and the website), I'm sure most of you are probably crying right now but I think it's a fair question to ask if you're really unsure. We're not going to be the best if we're snubbing people who have genuine questions just because they haven't been trained as we have been. This company isn't a sinking ship, it's really the partners that aren't genuine or living up to all the Starbucks principles (again, arguably the principles of life). When did elitism be a part of us?

Keep the drive-through; keep Vivanno; keep the breakfast sandwiches and the rest of the pastries; keep "just say yes;" keep all the "non-coffee fluff" drinks; but please leave the coffee elitism and snobbery please.

[former manager]

Just an aside:

I notice many posters here using the phrase "drinking the Kool Aid" or some variation to describe a cult-like attitude at Starbucks. While I appreciate the use of a good euphemism, as someone who remembers the inexplicable horror of the Jonestown "massacre" quite well I would encourage everyone to understand the source of the language they use. See here for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

[SPORK]

although the wikipedia page had some errors, I agree with you former manager. To truly understand the horror of what happened, there are several really great books out that really depict it well (see Jonestown:Massacre)

[Ellen]

"I understand that Starbucks' mission statement is to be the finest purveyor of coffee and whatnot but I really don't understand the coffee elitism. On a regular basis, I have to explain what the difference is between a latte and a cappuccino."

Like I said, I'm one of SB's best customers and I don't know the technical difference. They taste different to me and I like them both. And that's all I need to know to drop my money there. I don't need to become a member of the coffee cognoscenti.

[Ellen]

"For Ellen and others who post along the same lines, i.e., "just give me my coffee and cut the small talk," I'm certain that can be/is accomplished by just not "playing the game" if a barista chats you up."

Actually I find it amusing to hear that this is what SB is supposed to be all about, because on an everyday basis, as someone who spends a lot of time in SB stores, I don't see any more connection going on there than in any other place (Jamba Juice, Einstein's, Panera). You walk up, you place your order, they call it, you pay, you get your drink, done. I don't know where these places are where everybody knows your name and it's like Cheers and you talk to the barista about your vacation and your pets but it's never been in any SB I've ever seen. Sorry, I just don't see SB service as being different from decent counter service at any of the other places I mentioned.

[Jeff]

GOAT here...agree with your comments on censorship, etc., in general; however, my point is the webmaster issues "warnings" on different threads in a very GENERAL fashion yet, selectively, ignores those who post and fail to follow the same guidelines he is attempting to enforce with his "warnings." I believe, rightfully, I'm asking him to either be consistent in his enforcement of his "rules" or let's just have a free-for-all. It is the inconsistency of application that is the issue.

Ellen, don't believe I commented on SBUX being a third...or fourth...place. My point was to your insistence that you be given your coffee without attempting to engage you in any conversation beyond "what will you have" and "here's your drink." For others, that is not what they are looking for and they have no issues with being chatted up by a barista. I know I don't. I leave home early enough that my stops at SBUX are factored in whether they are busy or not. Of course, it helps to be retired at an early age and not have any place in particular to be. The major point to be taken, which seems to have been lost on you, is if you don't want to be "chatted up," then don't be. Don't be drawn into conversation. Place your order; pay for your order; leave with your order. Pretty simple, actually. However, for those who don't mind conversation and the civility that comes from it, leave us to it. Thanks.

[StLouieDrip]

@Wyfind, I don't see any coffee elitism in this thread, just coffee passion. And maybe that's the other problem with trying to mix coffee lovers with non-coffee lovers; they are prone to misread each other. I've been reading at this blog for a few months, and this is the ONLY thread I can remember where it's obvious that so many who work at sbux do feel very passionate about coffee. I'm honestly surprised by that, because most posts on this blog are by baristas who don't like/know coffee.

I also don't see anybody who would cry because a customer doesn't know the difference between a cappuccino and a latte. Or is that another case of misunderstanding someone else's coffee passion?

@Ellen, cognoscenti??? Are you concerned that someone working at sbux wants to talk to you about coffee? It's really more like they will inform you about the healthiness of a vivanno. But when I have a coffee question I usually notice there's nobody who works at sbux who can really answer it. It's rare to find a passionate coffee lover working at sbux. I find that the non-coffee lovers working at sbux dread the coffee questions, because they don't really know how to answer those questions. If those at sbux are not coffee cognoscenti there is probably no danger that they can turn you into one either. And I've ordered cappuccinos at sbux that were really prepared more like latte's. In fact, I gave up ordering them for that reason. So I find it's the people who work there (some, but not all), who don't seem to know the difference between the two.

And if nobody is actually chatting you up at sbux, then why in the world do you keep writing so many posts about it?

[Tiger Horse!]

"It's rare to find a passionate coffee lover working at sbux."

It takes ample quantities of money and leisure time to cultivate most esoetric (read, minimally beneficial to society) 'expertise', e.g. collecting antique cars, being an oenophile, a coffee snob, a restaurnt critic, an indie cinema fan, a folk art collector, etc.

The anecdotes about the people at brilliant people at intelligentsia who know everything about coffee are just that - outlying anecdotes. It shouldn't be surprising in the least that a huge company that attracts younger workers doesn't have a critical mass of elite coffee knowledge purveyors. They wouldn't be able to keep their stores open if that was a prerequisite of employment.

Now, having said that, there's no reason that bux can't train employees once they're on the job. However, two points:

1. in my experience with on floor workers in a variety of context, it is VERY difficult to get them to retain ANY sort of knowledge, particularly when they don't have a pre-existing interest in subject matter. They'll learn the bare minimum to be able to do the job at the desired level of quality (hopefully). Inculcating the passion and interest in coffee that is required to be a "coffee cognoscenti" is an uphill battle.

2. I know you could retort with stories about lattes as caps and americanos with syrup. I feel your pain. However, the truth of the matter is that, even for fairly demanding coffee product construction tasks, rote memorization and routinization, when done properly, will enable most people most of the time to receieve a good drink. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can do foam art nor does it mean that bux current training scheme is properly in this vein. It does mean that a lot of the quality problems that are complained about can be addresssed without turning workers into cafe-loving coffee snobs! (And I say snob in the most affectionate sense of the word)

[Wyfind]

StLouieDrip, I suppose you're right then. I must have read passion for snobbery. I don't mind explaining the difference between lattes and cappuccinos or what the difference is between an americano and our drip coffee is; it's just part of my job and I find that if I had a question, I would like to be answered without rolled eyes or just without some ounce of compassion. When you see people arguing about roast times about coffee and people stressing an exit from very profitable avenues for Starbucks such as the aforementioned pastries, sandwiches, frappuccinos, drive-throughs, etc., you start to sense an ounce of coffee elitism but perhaps it's just me. When I read that previous entry about the coffee shop that "just says no," I found that to be elitist but perhaps it's just me confusing passion with snobbery once again.

[Coffee Mistress]

"It says that if the customer asks for something within reason, you're obligated to Just Say Yes."
Posted by: espressoblend | August 02, 2008 at 03:07 PM

"Within reason" doesn't equate with getting something for nothing. Your drink doesn't taste right? YES, I'll gladly remake it. You wanted that iced? YES, I'll gladly remake it. You want an extra shot? YES, that'll be $.55. You would like hazelnut syrup added to your latte? YES, that'll be $.30. AND, for your information, even those remade drinks are accounted for.

"I can promise you, too, that if I complain to your manager he or she will always take the paying customer's side. Every time."
Posted by: espressoblend | August 02, 2008 at 03:07 PM

Espresso Blend, You apparently haven't met my Store Manager. He would tell you that the cost of your syrup is $.30. You don't see the flaw in your own logic. If we "Just Say Yes" to every customer who wants free syrup, or whatever, that is money lost. End of story. Analyze your own logic before you hit that submit button.

[barrister barrista]

Coffee Mistress,

My SM is the same way. He's stood up to many customers who were bending JSY into all sorts of contortions.

JSY does not empower us to become doormats.

[former manager]

While I am loath to take espressoblend's side on the issue (I find many of eb's posts somewhat mean spirited), the "just say yes" policy has a very important function: It allows the barista to focus on the experience of the guest in the store and not get tied up in the minutiae of rules and guidelines. If it's not illegal, immoral or unethical, just say yes. If a manager is narrowly focusing on the potential loss of 30 lousy pennies on a few transactions, he is missing the much greater potential loss of a customer's future business. And for the barista, just let it go. It's so much more empowering - and less stressful - to just focus on satisfying the guest. Quarreling over petty sums is a waste of everyone's time and emotion. Moreover, in all the years I was with Starbucks, with over a thousand customers a day coming through my store, the few that wanted to game the system or otherwise take advantage of our generous policies were so few in number it simply wasn't worth accounting for. "Develop enthusiastically satisfied customers..." sits above "Recognize that profitability..." on the Guiding Principles for a reason - the former is necessary for the latter.

[Kitty]

Melody, concerning the cup discount:

Of course you should have gotten that second cup discount. And I do understand that it irked you that the barista gave you a dime from the tip jar.

When rung correctly, the ten cents would have come off the regular price of your beverage. Basically, the company says, "thanks for bringing your own cup, this way we don't have to use one of ours (which we also have to buy)." So, the cost of the cup comes of the regular price.

By taking the money from the tip jar, the barista took money which was intended for them and their colleagues. They were, in a way, returning your tip.

It does make sense to me to be irked by that. Not unreasonable at all. ;o)

[omg]

just wondering why you dont tell them not to "forget" your two cup discounts? Half the time we have a new employee or someone unexperienced, they need a little reminding, THEY SHOULDN'T but unfortunately you have to spell it out for some ppl (i work with alot of them) SRRY you had that experience melody ;(

[vntiamero]

Starbucks has the ability to be cutting edge and creative without being adverse to what it is they do best....coffee. Too often a corporation gets too big that they must make changes only to accommodate the investors typically looking for quick and easy profit generating ideas to continue to grow their nut. This can be effectively done without branching outside of all things coffee it just requires more creativity. Products not relating to coffee should be kept to a minimum as I would guess it results in money tied up in items that don't move quickly.

I think Starbucks also needs to listen less to the general public. You are the experts, if you take the position of asking for suggestions you put up the indication that you are at a loss of ideas. You are large enough that people constantly come to you with ideas. Have a better relationship with those making quality suggestions behind closed doors, figure out how to make it work for you and the idea presenter's advantage and implement it without a huge commitment. If it works make it stick and support it. Right now it appears as if you are floundering, take a breath, brainstorm and re-focus, and things will come back into alignment. Howard back at the helm is a step in the right direction; he is the visionary, passionate, creative person to keep Starbucks on track.

[mapunx]

get this: 2 weeks ago we were totally slammed at like 3 pm with just 3 people on the floor-dtr/p, r2 and me the shift hot and cold barring for both. the phone has been ringing all day, the dm, the sm, the asm, people from the other store in town, etc. we've been letting it ring and trying to deal with the stack in dt and the 8 people in line in the cafe, but someone just decides that they're not going to give up and let's the phone ring for 2 minutes. The girl at r2 picks up and this is the conversation I hear over my shoulder as i'm at cold bar in a nutshell: "im sorry i can't hear you very well. i'm really sorry but maybe there's something wrong with one of our phones, it's also really loud in here and we're really busy could you call back in a few minutes?... im sorry I can't hear you, please call back."
like 20 minutes later we're still slammed and the person calls back again and is absolutely livid, i try to make the best of the situation but it further devolves and the next thing i know she's going to be "taking her business to the sbux in target and never coming back" o.k. fine, i do my most tactful take on "just say whatever" and get her off the phone after asking her several times to please come into the store and i just know we'll be able to make amends.
an hour or two later the asm gets a call from the same customer and same conversation insues. asm gives her 23-latte and blah blah blah.
last week i found out that my manager has been assigned the task of going to the woman's job and personally apologizing to her.
unbelievable.

[eleanor abernathy]

Can somebody please tell me where I can get a decent cup of drip in Seattle? You'd think with so many options this would be easy, but I'm tired of wasting my money on crap. Most of what I've had has been diner quality or a half-step up from that. For the most part, I like Starbucks' drip coffee (although it seems to have declined in quality over the last couple of years--either that, or I've grown a tolerance to it). But I don't drink coffee before noon, and the Pike Place is a disaster. Yes I know it's very "drinkable" or whatever, but I'm looking for something more interesting.

Some of the places I've tried, with disappointing results:

Herkimer
Diva Espresso
77th St. Coffee
Stickman
Firehouse
Verite
Victrola
new place on 24th in Ballard with a Clover
Fiore
Bauhaus (love this place though)
Canal Coffee
Fremont Coffee
Cugini

I'm thinking Peet's might be my best bet. Any suggestions?

[Coffee lover]

Starbucks coffee used to be reliable - you could get a good bold cup of coffee wherever you could find a Starbucks and slowly it started changing to watery coffee with bold only served at certain times. Why do they serve only one type all day - it is a coffee shop and there should be choice as before. No matter what time of the day I want 'real' coffee that is strong, not decaf, not that awful Pikes Place that tastes like colored water. I think Starbucks will continue to lose business if they don't bring back the coffee that got customers addicted in the first place. If there are customers who like the weak tasteless coffee just add hot water for them (or keep the Pikes Place for them but add back the bold for others) but let your 'bread and butter' customers get a decent coffee. I know that whoever opens a coffee shop that sells 'strong' coffee with decent food will get my money. I have decided not to frequent Starbucks until they get rid of Pikes Place and give me a choice of bold coffee all day. I am not going to pay extra to get a shot put in because they cater to the weak coffee drinkers only. I stopped going to Caribou because they stopped making strong coffee in the afternoons so now there is no alternative. Any suggestions in Atlanta where I can get 'real' coffee? England will probably be the next place for Starbucks to close as you can get much better coffee at places other than Starbucks.

[#1]

In Seattle, give Stumptown Coffee Roasters and Zoka Coffee Roasters a try.

In Atlanta, I've heard good things about Octane Coffee Bar but I've yet to experience it.

www.stumptowncoffee.com
www.zokacoffee.com
www.octanecoffee.com

[#1]

Eleanor:

Stumptown is hosting a couple of their coffee producers tonight and will feature their coffees. There will be lots of coffee to taste if that's your thing.

Friday, August 8th
6-8 PM
1115 12th Ave(Stumptown Roastery), Seattle, Washington.

[75798]

I bet espressoblend probably has about two shares in the company yet this guy tries to talk a game bigger than Buffet himself. Yes I understand corporations have an obligation to stockholders but if you are so intelligent espressoblend do some history research and see how well the companies that alienate their employees do...I would do some research before blowing smoke. Espressoblend, keep coming to Starbucks with your special edition investor card, and you'll keep getting your brewed coffee, and hopefully your a halfway civilized customer. By the way, did you know Starbucks participates in profit-sharing so these "employees without refined abilities" as you so elegantly put it also have ownership in the company and some probably have more than you. However, I don't see them getting all bent out of shape. Rule number one of the stock market...flacuation happens and don't get too attached to a stock. Judging by the fact your venting on a blog I think you broke that rule.

[starbucks partner]

1. make ordering and receiving product easier. Orders coming from 4 different vendors on different days is rediculous. Also, receiving an order you placed 1 week ago.... come on. How can you run a store like that. Always have to much or not enough.

2. make things easier and simplify things for all partners. DM, SM down to barista. They said they want to get back to the basics. Things are just the opposite of basics since they have said that. I have found in my experience that, the easier you can make things for your partners means better product and better service.

So make things simple and spend more on labor WITHIN REASON.

HOWARD... LISTEN TO YOUR STORE MANAGERS...HAVE THOSE IDIOTS SITTING UP IN THEIR OFFICE MAKING THESE STUPID DECISIONS WORK IN A STORE FOR A CHANGE. LET THEM SEE HOW THINGS REALLY WORK

[Ellen]

"They said they want to get back to the basics. Things are just the opposite of basics since they have said that. I have found in my experience that, the easier you can make things for your partners means better product and better service."

ROFL, it's about serving your customers better, not about going back to the basics to make YOUR job easier.

[LA_SM]

So here are my thoughts, as interpreted from Howard himself at a store manager Sorbetto rally that I went to in June (Los Angeles).

Back to the basics? Yes, we have done a lot to get back to the basics.

We are grinding our coffee daily. Check. We reduced our hold times on brewed coffee from one hour to thirty minutes. Good. We have made a promise to calibrate our espresso machines once an hour, and to never resteam our milk.

We have all learned how to craft the perfect beverage, and if it isn't right, we will happily remake it. This was our promise, and we all closed down our stores for two hours to get this point across to our partners.

However, we are a business, and we have to maximize our sales. Profiitability is essential to our future success, and we have to recognize that.

One of our biggest sales opportunities is in the afternoon. Not many people want a cup of hot coffee in the afternoon. They want something different. Starbucks is committed to trying new things, like Sorbetto and Vivanno.

I honestly wanted to hate Sorbetto when it first started. However, I can't hate the sales that earn my partners more hours... Thoughts?

[Darleen]

ROFL, it's about serving your customers better, not about going back to the basics to make YOUR job easier

With all due respect, it IS about making partners jobs better. If your partners are taken care of, made to feel empowered and given knowledge then they will exceed customers expectations. These three things go hand in hand, partners, customers, share holders. Each needs to be happy or the rest falls behind. So you can ROFL but if the partners aren't happy then the customers won't be happy.

[itsnotamermaid]

to spork and former manager, RE: Kool-aid and jonestown:
most people have just heard the pop-culture reference and have no idea of the origin, so thank you for pointing that out. however, i think the original use of the term was meant to be a satirical bit of macabre humor and as such, has its place in the scope of humanity and how people deal with tragedy. also: it was FLAVOR-AID.

eh. in 8 yrs with the company i have learned that there is no company loyalty, Just Say Yes works well with the obvious exceptions, PPR SUCKS!!!, it never hurts to be nice to people, stupid promotions come and go but coffee is consistent(so are frappuccinos and so what? they pay the bills) and i'm still here...
change: please promote from within. that has been one of the biggest differences that i believe has had some of the most negative impact on management. used to be quite a few 20-something SMs who had worked their way up from barista and they did a better job than quite a few older, more manager experience outside hires. new blood is good, but so is promoting people who know how the company from the ground up.

[vonnie]

Starbucks did the whole customer voice thing, I think one of the top requests were a rewards system, most wanted punch cards or something to get a free beverage after the purchase of a set amount. Did they listen? based on the results, no. I am not coming back for that 2 dollar drink, in the evening, on the same day no less. The perks with purchaseing with a loaded starbucks card leave me in the cold as well, no benefit for my drink there either in a price reduction. The promotion only seems self serveing and that does not make me feel special as a customer at all. So nothing's changed, I was expecting Starbucks to roll of something pretty cool with all that customer voice feeback. Oh well.....................

[Soya]

I ahve no idea how Starbucks is going to make it. I have worked for the company for three years. I was a shift in CA and NYC and my husband and I have just relocated to London as of last month. I was rehired as a barista 3 weeks ago. Today, I was sent home for refusing to take off my wedding ring. How and why would they treat a loyal employee this way? Any help on who I should contact about this would be amazing... I am so bummed on Starbucks. Thanks! email is [email protected]

[Soya]

I have no idea how Starbucks is going to make it. I have worked for the company for three years. I was a shift in CA and NYC and my husband and I have just relocated to London as of last month. I was rehired as a barista 3 weeks ago. Today, I was sent home for refusing to take off my wedding ring. How and why would they treat a loyal employee this way? Any help on who I should contact about this would be amazing... I am so bummed on Starbucks. Thanks! email is [email protected]

[chloe]

soya,

if they have the same partner guide, the dress code allows for minimal jewelry like wedding bands. however, in england, they may have a different partner guide with a different dress code, or, their health codes may require no jewelry in food service. i'd just ask to see the guide and/or research health code so you can familiarize yourself with how the laws and policies might be different in europe so something like this doesn't happen to you again.

[optimistic]

You should give us a new interesting thread. This one has grown stale - nothing more to add...