The real reason ad agency Wieden quit Starbucks: it was "a very frustrating client"

Starbucks is infamous for greenlighting advertising projects and later withdrawing approval. One adman who has worked with Starbucks says Howard Schultz "does not appreciate advertising. Any agency that comes in has one foot out the door already." || Read "Why Wieden quit Starbucks" (AdAge.com)

Comments

[Will]

Interesting stuff. Putting stuff out and withdrawing it sounds about right. Karate man? Wtf was up with that?

[Ryan (SS)]

I know this isn't an open thread, but I do want everyones input on this: Do you think that Starbucks should reinvent their advertising campaign, and if yes how should they go about doing it and what customers should they target?

[StLouieDrip]

That's a much more informative article. Stating "it just makes sense to part ways" and "it's the best decision for both parties" is just too polite. We all know there's much more to the story. Sometimes being polite and diplomatic leaves out too many pertinent details.

Dan Wieden and Howard Schultz have mended a few broken bridges between their organization...

What broken bridges? Did they have a previously rocky relationship that had been mended?

... micromanagement, waffling and shift to a jump-ball approach ...

Um, does anyone else see a pattern?

Also, when a competent organization joins with a "waffling" one, the competent company can appear incompetent, and thus lose credibility. I don't know anything about Wieden, but from what I've seen of sbux I can understand why a company wouldn't want to continue with them. It's my guess that sbux limits an agency's ability to do its best work, just like it limits its best employees' ability to do their best work. When the ads don't quite mesh it could be viewed as Wieden's error. But if the blame is really sbux's, Wieden is still the one that appears incompetent.

By a number of accounts, Mr. Roberts has taken on wide-ranging responsibilities during the past year. Under his reign, it has become commonplace for the same project to be assigned to multiple agencies on a competitive basis, according to several people familiar with the matter. "I don't just swim in one lane," Mr. Roberts said in a meeting last week.

I can see why it's reasonable to retain the service of more than one ad agency, but putting them in competition with each other doesn't seem like an effective tactic, and could also be seen as disrespectful, depending on the ad agencies.

[spence]

The best form of advertisment is recommendations from friends and family. We (THE BARISTAS) are essential to my above statement. Whether or not Starbucks advertises is not within our control. Being legendary is.
Publically complaining that we are understaffed, underpaid will not help us.

[George Dubya. Bush]

I agree with Spencer. If yall agree to pretend the problems doesn't exist and it will always go away.

I tried the same, er whatchamacallit, strategery, with Iraq and New Orleans and was quite successful. Things are going great in both places.

Gotta go now, I want to go see how well my stocks did today. I'm betting they all went up.

God Bless ya

[Uncle Howie]

...our best commercial will always be customers walking around the globe carrying our cups. Celebrities carrying cups also seems to help. Oh and some well thought through product placement.

[drive]

St Louis Drip is correct in stating:

"It's my guess that sbux limits an agency's ability to do its best work, just like it limits its best employees' ability to do their best work."

The good baristas, who do not need to be managed, are often micromanaged by incompetent supervisors, and not allowed to exercise their better judgment. Baristas who do need to be managed are given free rein to alienate and antagonize customers.

['Bux Man]

I think the best product placement Starbucks ever did was in the movie Idiocracy.

With the way some coffee shops are heading these days it might not be far from reality.

[Cut Out The Heart]

Well, this further reinforces my position in thread after thread on this site...the common denominator in the troubles at Starbucks is (anyone want to guess) Howard Schultz and his king sized ego. What was once a strength for him has become a glaring weakness. The bigger the ego, the louder the yelling, the less engaged those that come into contact with him become. What I found interesting in the article is that Howard has brought in one more of his "buddies" who has effectively decimated the marketing team to the point that the remaining quality employees who were left after their quality co-workers were let go are now leaving.

Good call Howard, in an attempt to win back favor from Wall Street (we know how credible they are)you have created an environment of distrust. You let go quality people because they made too much money, were tenured with the company, had too many outstanding stock options, and all the other idiotic reasons to let them go to make a buck, that those that are left are in fear of their job or are volunteering to leave before you tell them to leave.

Enjoy the fruits of your labor sir.

[Roger The Barista]

Cut out the heart.

I know we have had our disagreements in the past, but I have to say that your posts are all so negative and so bitter. I wonder if you could ever write anything a little more positive?

You are obviously intelligent, so how about a little more upbeat and constructive writing? It might help those still at the company to help push things upwards instead of always running things into the ground.

Or perhaps you just don't feel that their is ever anything positive to say about Starbucks anymore.

RogerTheBarista

[espressoblend]

Publically [sic] complaining that we are understaffed, underpaid will not help us.

Posted by: spence | September 29, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Well, let's be clear here... it's just not the baristas who are in a very public manner discussing the issues SBUX is facing, especially in the arena of customer service.

It's naive to think that if the baristas aren't bringing out the issue of being understaffed that the customer isn't very aware of the issue. Try standing in a line, waiting five minutes to just order, then deal with an inept, rude and completely unacceptable version of what "customer service" should be, then wait another five minutes for your drink just to find out it's made poorly. Finally, having to once again deal with horrible service when asking for a new drink, and then walking out feeling cheated out of $5 that, honestly, you didn't need to spend on this "affordable luxury," especially in this economy.

Now, I don't think you all are understaffed, per se, just completely inefficient. Actually do your jobs well, in a quick, efficient, and perfect manner that the customer deserves since they're paying your paychecks, and the line will speed up. Currently, I'd say, you're working at only 50% efficiency. You all could work harder, which would increase customer service AND profits.

I disagree that any of you all are underpaid... it's just coffee you all are slinging. You all work in fast food, and frankly, are OVERPAID for that. The sleeve of industry you all work (fast food) probably averages pay at $6.50 an hour. From what I hear, SBUX starts at $7.50.

It's no wonder then, that SBUX keeps rolling out new initiatives and expects you all to be able to execute the new with the old while still maintaining (or needing to at least get to the point of) great customer service.

This is not difficult.

[Mike]

I agree and disagree with what espressoblend has written...I agree that our jobs, indeed, are not difficult. Taxing perhaps...stressful at times certainly...but not difficult...proper staffing has less to do with having more partners on the floor, and more to do with proper deployment (and partners being held accountable to deployment) and SMs staffing their stores properly...there is a PART of me that accepts that as fact...
I disagree however that we don't need to be paid more. I don't know what market you're in espressoblend, but here in New Jersey minimum wage is $7.25, with our baristas starting at $7.75. I have nothing but the utmost respect for my baristas and shift supervisors...the job they do on a daily basis may not be difficult, but it is demanding. I have to be sensitive as an SM to the fact that any one of my baristas could go across the street to the mall to any of these no-name retailers, sit behind a cash register with their thumbs up their asses all day long and make $9/hr. Baristas don't stay here because they think the job is easy...they stay because of the environment that is created for them, period.
The problem with posts like the one above are the self-entitled assholes who look down on the baristas and berate them and then have the nerve to set expectations. We are all human beings here, not robots, who also deserve respect. Our jobs have been extremely challenging as we've rolled through not only many changes in operations, but also the loss of many partners we cared about, whether they left voluntarily or involuntarily.
For what our partners have been through, they deserve a pat on the back, not a slap in the face. You can do that simply by keeping your negativity to yourself. Or feel free at anytime to throw on an apron and jump behind the line, and see how EASY it is to work a shift. Just because our baristas are paid to do a job does not mean they should be taken advantage of. In my store our first guiding principle of treating one another with respect and dignity also holds true for our customers, and I have had and will continue to have words with any customer who treats my baristas with any less respect than they deserve.
Keep the faith baristas -- if what I'm told holds true you're all getting raises post-New Orleans...well-deserved raises...from an SM who cares, thanks for everything you do each and every day. I appreciate it...

[Anonymous]

To Espressoblend,

The point of this topic is advertising. And trust me, the baristas are understaffed and have been for the past several years. I speak from experience, although I don't work in that industry anymore.

Baristas do more than sling coffee. Of course, excellent customer service is key but it can only be achieved when there is harmony. With the lack of training and inept 'external' hires that become SMs or DMs, they end up driving their stores to the ground, not knowing what the hell they're doing. Sometimes internal hires (If this is what I'm seeing) can be corrupt such as case with Kara Davis.

So EspressoBlend, how do you like Wall Street, now that Congress shot the bill down?

To Spence, baristas are NOT the only form of advertisement. Originally, Starbucks relied on the mystique and word of mouth in the first place without going to commercials. The company had used graphic design-based ads on magazines as it's a cheaper way of getting the point across while commercials are the more expensive route.

As for Wieden to say that Starbucks is a difficult client, that's not surprising. The "Pass The Cheer" commercial was approved by Howie. If it was'nt, Wieden would'nt produce it in the first place after a conceptual pitch.

[spence]

Hi Anonymous,
I would like to see some advertising. I merely pointed out that we (baristas) have no say in the matter. We do have the option of being legendary.

[Torontodude]

"Free refills" is not a difficult concept to grasp. Starbucks should advertise it heavily. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already.

On to the customer service issue.

Starbucks employees are generally much better than customer service employees elsewhere. They usually try to connect with customers. That said, some don't seem to know much about coffee. I could make the same criticism of employees in running speciality shops: some don't know much about running shoes.

There is plenty of good stuff and good value at Starbucks.
You just have to do a little work to find out what's best for you. After another americano misadventure (NOT getting what I ordering despite a 16 minute wait and repeating my request 4 times) I have now forever abandoned espresso drinks at Starbucks.

But that's okay. I drank a whole French press of Burundi Kayanza (sp?) yesterday and it was outstanding -- easily the equal of what I could get at an indy shop. Other times, I just have two Venti drips -- one of which is free with my card benefits. I also like the spinach and ricotta wrap and can't wait for the piadini.

[Pamela]

No place to put this ... but today's the launch of the hot chocolates in my marketplace. The sea salt caramel is OUTSTANDING! Tastes like a chocolate-turtle, or a salted chocolate-dipped pretzel. Yum!

[mary(asm)]

FYI starbucks would rather spend the money on training its baristas then advertising and i love that about starbucks cause more people come to starbucks for the perfectly made drinks not the big billboard on the free way

[Nerfebarista]

Free refills" is not a difficult concept to grasp. Starbucks should advertise it heavily. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already.

We want to bring in NEW customers, not just keep the same ole' cheapskates. If I didn't know better, I'd say we are having hard financial times, because we've become a nation that thinks it deserves more than what it's paid for.

The free refill mindset hurts a market that has a core product that could be gotten for free. I don't think many people know just how many go into any given store and get a "refill" on their first visit of the day. Our refill policy is gone now. You can walk into a Starbucks at 3am and get a "refill" 30 seconds after the store opens and no one will bat an eyelash.

That is why free refills won't work to bring in buisiness. It will only attract the cheap and self entitled that usually also have the tendancy to be really annoying as customers. Sorry if this sounds like a rant against you Torontodude. It really isn't, I know as a loyal customer you've spent plenty of money at Starbucks and you want to be rewarded, and probably are if you are an sbux card holder, but you would be the exception, rather than the rule.

[Nerfebarista]

almost forgot to tell espressoblend to go play in traffic.

Oh and I'm a Barista and I'm better than you, espressoblend. Have a good day

[Torontodude]

Re: Free Refills

Isn't the idea to bring in new customers, in hopes they might come often and spend money on food and/or more expensive drinks?

[spence]

"almost forgot to tell espressoblend to go play in traffic.
Oh and I'm a Barista and I'm better than you, espressoblend. Have a good day"

You made me laugh. EspressoBlend is so NOT Starbucky. We have one daily customer that will occassionally come in for his free refill at 8am. With a cold cup. Usually it's at the end of the week and he must be counting his money. You are right, EspressoBean. I DON"T CARE. I do care about being good to the customers and company. And a free coffee isn't going to tip us over the edge into bankruptsy.
We have a fairly large number of guests who linger for an hour or two and some take advantage of the refill. It makes them feel special. I am all about making customers feel special and welcome. EspressoBean, if you re-read your green apron book, you'll find them mention some of the qualities.
And we are all still waiting to find out exactly what you do.

[spence]

TorontoDude, I've been with Starbucks over a year pretty much full time. We were never trained to push Espresso Drinks. In fact, we were trained to understand the coffees and know how to make the espresso drinks for the customers that prefer them. They do want us to up sell when we can. But only in a gentle manner when suggesting a coffee pairing or something we sincerely think the customer will like.

[Melody]

Spence, I'm really enjoying your posts!

*back to your regularly scheduled programing*

And sort of on topic (but not really) - Karate Guy made it into an ad in the Sunday Seattle Times (and probably other cities too. ??) the weekend the Vivanno launched (or close thereto). I'm going to look around to see if I still have that ... but maybe someone has one that they've scanned and uploaded somewhere?? hint hint.

But in my opinion, probably more people read this site than happen to catch an advertisement in print form in a Sunday paper ... ???

[Pat Nerr]

ummm... Duh. I sent one to Java Joe for a story Mel.

http://www.greenapronstories.com/2008/09/16/the-tale-of-the-karate-man-heeeee-yaaaaaa/

[espressoblend]

Nerfebarista:

You can walk into a Starbucks at 3am and get a "refill" 30 seconds after the store opens and no one will bat an eyelash.

And that's why Starbucks has Just Say Yes. You pretty much have to just say yes to this request, and any request a customer makes that is reasonable. Please note that "reasonable" is defined by the customer, though, not the employee. As for your use of quotes around 'refill', you may want to check yourself. When someone comes in with a used cup, it is a refill. You are refilling a cup that once contained the beverage that you're replacing. By definition, it is a refill...

Oh, yeah, and by the way, you're the epitome of why customers think that SBUX has poor customer service. Surely anyone with your attitude cannot be someone that gives great customer service to the customers that come into your store... Wow.

[Melody]

Oh Mr. Nerr, this is why I love you so much. I just laughed out loud reading the Karate Man story.

And as with many great celebrities, if you die young, your popularity increases twenty-fold.

Karate Man lives on as a great icon someone who welcoming, genuine, and knowledgeable ... Too bad the King got him.

[Pat Nerr]

I was given a few of those little guys to put up on store doors after hours...

for the openers... One might end up on a store door when the media is around... I'm also considering a short cartoon

[coffeewench]

RE: Free Refills-espressoblend

"Reasonable" is most certainly not defined by the customer. Companies have policies and standards for a reason, and blatently abusing those policies by trying to cheat the system is not "reasonable."

By this definition it would apparently be "reasonable" for a customer to "Just Say Yes" their way into never having to pay for a single item purchased. After all, if that customer deems it "reasonable" to demand a free drink and pastry every day we'd have to "just say yes")

Having just "just said no" to the second drive thru refill request of the day this is a bit of an irritating subject.

Free refills are a good thing when we are allowed to use the policy correctly by enforcing it. There are plenty of customers who come in bearing laptops and set up shop for several hours. That is definitely a reasonable situation for this.

The customer who comes in with yesterday's (or last weeks)cup is knowingly abusing the "Just Say Yes" policy.

There is a restaurant in my town that offers free refills on their french fries but they don't have people walking in off the street carrying the bag from yesterday and looking for a refill.

You can get free drink refills at Wendy's but you don't see people coming in with cups from six days ago wanting a "refill." (nor do you see people pulling up at the drive thru window in search of the same thing)

Admittedly, this is not entirely to be blamed on customers. Starbucks is largely to blame by having painted itself into a corner by taking the "Just Say Yes" policy to an unreasonable extreme.

[spence]

Wow. The "Melody" spoke to me. It brightened my day.
(I'm not being sarcastic. I'm serious. It did.)
Oh, and even better, Someone I don't know (Melody)who is sort of an aquaintance, met Howard. (who I'm not likely ever to see or meet). That kind of means that Howard and I are sharing the same circle of friends.

[venti melon btl.]

It's steamed Nesquick. Seriously people, go home and make this yourself, don't bother spending 5 dollars on it. Personally, I think it's disgusting.

[Jennifer]

Does anyone know if the cocoa is fair trade? I saw a documentary on Friday called Black Gold (blackgoldmovie.com) about the impact of the collapse of the coffee markets on people in Ethiopia and then the next day a customer asked me about the cocoa as well.

[Cut out the Heart]

To Roger the Barista,

Thanks for the suggestion Roger and the compliment. While the tone of my posts may be perceived on the negative side, I think the purpose of them is to ensure that both sides of the story are being discussed. So many people were hurt, and I mean emotionally hurt when Howard and the Senior Leadership turned on them by letting quality people go from the organization. Had they done what they thought they stood for and used the strength of the organization which is the partner's commitment to the Brand (is that positive?)to help them grow sales and reduce costs, my posts would be more uplifting and motivational.

I know it is a business and sometimes difficult decisions have to be made however, I thought Starbucks was above the "standard" business decisions and would take the higher road. That is the source of my distaste for Howard and his group. He took that path of least resistance at the expense of partners.

With all that said Roger, I don't want to rain on your parade. If you are having a great experience as a partner, that is great. All I will say is to keep both eyes open and don't invest too much of who you are into the company. Those that did got burned in the long run.

I wish you well and that you have a long and productive career. If you are going to New Orleans, enjoy yourself. If not, I hope your manager has a great time and comes back with energy and enthusiasm. Sure is a ton of money being spent to fly everyone to New Orleans but who am I to criticize.

Oh, not sure I can change my tune though until I see Howard doing the same.