Starbucks now only serves decaf drip coffee on request after noon

This has been discussed in the Open Thread below, but I'm moving the chatter to this thread. There's also been some discussion about the new decaf policy on the Starbucks Twitter page. || Jump to the most recently posted comments

Comments

[Coffee Soldier]

They also took away our live music licenses to save another couple hundred bucks last week. Pastries are being removed and we've been told not to sample them anymore either. I think the company is grasping for anything that may save a few pennies at this point but if it saves some of our jobs then we've got to stick it out and hopefully come out a lean and profit producing machine when we emerge from this economic crisis.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

I saw this today and was horrified. My store has decided this is pointless and we are brewing decaf on 1/4 batch for our customers, not on demand. We have it ready for them. Don't people realize that serving decaf in the PM is illogical. People don't want caffeine in the PM because they want to go to sleep, so they want decaf. Aren't these people at the SSC, thinking. I hope they get terminated for their stupid ideas.

I might believe in, "Death before decaf" but I am CONSIDERATE and have decaf ready to go.

One more nail in the coffin.
Thanks Michelle "FAT ASS" gASS.

I used to work at a competing coffee chain (rhymes with "Peet's") and toward the end of my tenure the policy changed to only brewing decaf by request after 4pm or so (I think... I didn't close very often). Making noon the cutoff seems pretty early though.

[green_cup]

Just another crystal clear sign this company is going down the tubes.

By the way, the Twitter-ing going on at Starbucks' Twitter page is crap. They specifically say they're doing this to avoid waste, as if it had some sort of environmental tone to it.

It has NOTHING to do with the environment and everything to do with the sheer desperation this company is emitting. They KNOW they've screwed over too many customers by cutting too many of the WRONG things and now they know not to expect that steady stream of income. As well, they built their brand on something exactly the opposite of recession-proof. Let hilarity ensue.

I'd say this company was going down the tubes, but they've long past that point. Now they're just somewhere in the sewer with the foul tasting swill they call coffee comes from.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Here's another instance of Starbucks logic.

Let's keep the breakfast sandwiches.
Let's get rid of decaf.

The questions we ask ourselves are this.
1) How many people would be really upset and stop coming to Starbucks if we didn't have breakfast sandwiches anymore?

2) How many people would STOP coming to Starbucks, now that don't have BOLD or DECAF?

3) Will the madness never end?

Wait, I have the answer to the last question. No, because as long as the mindless leadership stays in place and is COMMITTED NOT to pleasing customers we will continue down this spiral down. We're like Icarus, we flew too close to the Sun and now are plunging into the sea and will drown.

We should rename ourselves Starbucks Pike's Puke.

[tuppy]

I don't understand — they're NOT going to brew decaf after noon? unless requested?

wouldn't it make more sense not to brew decaf BEFORE noon? don't people want decaf at night and caffeine in the morning? I know I do...

am I misunderstanding the policy? if not, what's the data that rationalizes it?

[Melody]

Okay someone please help me understand this - Maybe there are some MBAs on this board:

1. Is the designation of "high brew store" gone??? I assume those stores had both bold & decaf available until at least 5 p.m.

2. Just on the topic generally of brewing coffee ... Imagine you're in a downtown urban core. Tall buildings, people in suits, and your clientele includes almost zero minors or soccer moms. Has Starbucks ever looked at their coffee sales data by day of the week? I'd bet dollar to donuts that you sell more coffee Monday through Thursday, because so many office people try to take off early on Friday, or try to compress their week somehow. I just cannot believe in a one-size-fits-all solution. What about making high brew stores - for both bold & decaf - Monday through Thursday "high brew stores" for the downtown urban centers?

2a. Who looks at the data? There have got to be a few pockets/stores where it would still be worthwhile to have bold all day?

3. Okay so over the lunch hour I had the shock that my nearby "high brew store" now brews bold & decaf until noon only. Later, I talked to the manager and realized that they will have bold (& decaf) staged to go but my worry is that less accommodating stores are just going to say "we're out" ...

4. Someone please help me understand why the Clover works financially. I'm no MBA. Just a very ordinary JaneDoe. At 4:30 ish, after an afternoon court session, I strolled down to my favorite "high brew store" that also has a Clover. Okay so I am over the shock that it is no longer a high brew store and I simply ordered a Clover cup of Organic Serena. I am calm again, and I'll just order from the Clover. I don't need to make a big deal about it except that other stores which use to offer coffee all day, don't have the Clover.

Somebody please explain to me how this is not more wasteful than brewing bold all day? With the Clover you can get ANY cup of coffee individually made, but that means that baristas are constantly ripping into flavor-lock bags to accommodate customer requests?

The other thing about the Clover is that it is expensive. Most normal people will not pay that much for a cup of black coffee. For example, if I had wanted a Grande cup of Papua New Guinea Kainantu, it would have been $3.95. A Grande Columbia Manzanares is $3.25.

I mean to be honest, there are times when I have opted for bold drip coffee over the Clover because it is sooo much cheaper. You pay more for the Clover even if you had picked Espresso Roast through the Clover. Even if decaf drinkers were able to get whatever decaf through the Clover, wouldn't they too be concerned about paying more? A short Espresso Roast through the Clover is $1.95.

Alright that's it. I feel much better now.

[Barista Ben]

God forbid you people wait 3 minutes for some coffee like everyone else.

You know what also will change? Instead of going into a sbux and getting 3 hour old decaf, it will be fresh.

And another thing, 90% of the time people who get coffee at my store at night still get full-caf. It's very rare we sell any decaf coffee, past the morning rush. Half the time the more lazy partners I work with already do this - brew on demand.

We all know it is to save money, but it also saves a lot of waste. Also, probably millions of dollars saved.

[Barista]

Here is another one for you.. Starbucks in now charging you for extra syrup and sauce even if its a sauce or syrup that aready comes on the drink..
So
if you order a caramel machito with extra caramel you will get charged an extra 30 cents for the extra caramel

If you order a tall vanilla latte with 6 pumps of syrup instead of the standard 3 . you will charged 30 cents for the extra syrup.

It used to be that any extra syrup or sauce was free as long as it was a sauce or syrup that was already part of the drink..

XTRA Syrup and Sauce buttons have been added to the POS systems

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Future conversations at Starbucks:

Barista 1: Good evening. How are you?
Customer 1: Small decaf.
Barista 1: I'm sorry, we don't brew decaf after 12.
Customer 1: I thought you had coffee at Starbucks.
Barista 1: We have Pike's.
Customer 1: I wanted decaf, that's coffee too. I used to be able to get decaf. I want to go to sleep.
Barista 1: I could make you an americano.
Customer 1: This is pointless. I'm leaving.

I'm sure losing incremental sales of $2 here and there really don't matter. But if you lose 50 cups a day multiply it by 10,000 would equal $1,000,000. I guess losing that much money and future customers doesn't matter to Starbucks.
And you thought that -3.5% VTI was a bad idea. At least we were actually saving money.

I don't have time to wait 4 minutes for a cup of decaf coffee and neither do my customers.

The absurdity of Starbucks is approaching unbelievable levels.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Melody,
Let me express to you my condolences. First, they get rid of BOLD and now they kick DECAF under the bus.

Yes, you're idea of having different solutions for different stores. People are different and so are stores.

[Barista]

I think its true and that there are numbers that show that less decaf coffee is sold in the after noons..
It sucks that the numbers show that decaf has to go.

Its a shame that the 20 or less costumers that get decaf in the evening have to pay the price.

On the other side there is also a decaf Americano

They can put a button that says RECESSION TAX for all I care. Doesnt mean I'll push it

[anonymous]

We've already been doing the decaf by request after noon and I really hate it. It was alreay bad enough that some of my partners think it's a good idea to only have a 1/4 batch of regular coffee going at a time in the afternoon.

[Jim C]

Pastries are going to be frozen nationwide, and they are going to have a +2 day shelf life after thaw. Get ready to wrap all of the dry pastries and put them back out the next day. This includes all breakfast sandwiches, also.

There has been an "extra" button for ages. It is a no-charge modifier used in stores that have label printers for the bar. Please, don't generate unsubstantiated rumors.

[Curious]

Honestly, I talked to my coworkers about this today and decided that

1) we'll brew decaf all day long, just on 1/4 batches as it gets slow.

2) I'll brew bold as long as people continue to ask for it. At this point I have a steady stream of people asking for a "bold" coffee until about 8pm, so I'll be brewing until then.

3) Can we talk about the recipe change for vivanos on this thread too?

[Targetbux]

we dont sell hardley any decaffe in r store so not having to brew it would be a good thing.

[Allison]

As a drinker of bold decaf coffee, this doesn't bode well for me...

[Curious]

I'm just tired of being told "run it like you own it" but then being held accountable to these all encompassing "rules" that strip away all ownership. To me, it seems this should read

"Look at your sales history, if your decaf sales lag after xx o'clock, then you are allowed to switch to brewing on demand"

But I guess that would be putting too much faith in your "managers" to actually know what they're doing.

[Herman M]

I recall a few years back a shift at a store I was working in got written up for not brewing all three coffees until close. Something about Starbucks being a coffee store, so we should have fresh, hot coffee available for the customer when they enter the store. My, how times change...

[ndemystic]

"Amen" Rebel and Melody.

Enough people complain about this no decaf ready at night and the big wigs will have to think twice, right? First, cutting back on decaf and then cutting back on making all coffee we will be left with just the espresso bar, blended bar and the sandwhich oven. Yikes, what happened? How can any company that calls themselves an expert in Coffee or any real coffee drinker think that making coffee on demand only is the way of the future?

[stillamanager]

You all need to seriously get a life.

Decaf IS NOT, I repeat IS NOT going away. If you can't wait 3 minutes for a cup of decaf you have a problem.

High brew stores will still have the option to brew past noon if their sales indicate there is a need. And as posted above, you're probably getting old decaf anyway, so now you are assured a nice fresh cup or even better an americano for the same price. Night sales rarely indicate a higher need for decaf, unless perhaps your store is surrounded by a retirement community.

I'll try not to lose sleep over the 4 people a day who may or may not have to wait a bit longer for their Decaf. If they drank caffeinated they might have more energy to wait in line behind the people buying real drinks.

And for the jackass that posted that there are now extra syrup buttons on the POS, uh, DUH! The extra button has always been there. How else do you think all those greedy caramel frappuccino customers have been getting extra caramel to suck up their straws for free?

[Melody]

stillamanager, I think you missed the symbolic aspect of what is happening here. Ahh but I remember the whole bean menus coming off the walls and being replaced by a photo of a breakfast sandwich.

[Mysticboi]

They should just get rid of the vivannos. Nothing kills the flow better than vivannos...well atleast the ones with the frozen bananas.

[ndemystic]

Hi Stillmanager, You are lucky. And by the way we still have lives but your store might not be as busy as others who have customers who WILL walk out if coffee isn't handed to them under 30 seconds. It is a rule if coffe wasn't ready the customer got their coffee free. If the Customers hold us to our word it looks like Starbucks will be giving away a lot of Coffee.

THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!
You people are a bunch of drama queens, every little thing is blown way out of proportion. 72,000 people lost their jobs today, times have changed and Starbucks needs to be run like a business. Yes, I don't agree with everything but come on guys lets get real.
You can still brew decaf after Noon if your business requires it. I'm sure if you did a sku track you'd see that very little decaf is sold throughout the day. A few people will huff and puff about waiting 4 minutes, but that wait time may be cut if your calling a line so by the time the person pays the wait is a bit shorter.
Think about waste guys, it all adds up.

PS. The Clover makes sense because there is NO waste.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Maybe, the meeting in February will be that during the summer months we will just do frappuccinos and no espresso beverages. Don't forget, McDonalds and DD will simply take all of our customers.

I think I hear "Taps" being played for Starbucks.

[ndemystic]

I see why you didn't post your name...you are part of management. Like it or lump it mentality...let's just see what the customers think about it.

[Curious]

So you're advocating a Coffee house not serve coffee? I'm just curious as to why places like Dunkin' and Wawa (if you're from the NE area of the country) are able to brew and serve ALL types of coffee ALL day. I just think it is sad to see Starbucks COFFEE Company making decisions to cut things like Coffee from its menu when there are SO MANY other things that could be cut. I have shelves full of hideous mugs that don't sell until they get marked down to $0.99 and am told to order a "special" cup for Vivannos (why not just use a regular 16oz cold cup?!). I bet the cost of 1 case of vivanno cups is higher than the cost of a full quarter's worth of dumped 1/4 batches of decaf.

[Melody]

@anon at 6:59 - if you've used the Clover you'd know that you use more beans per cup of coffee than your drip brewing method because you get a lot more cups of coffee out of the drip brewer. You would also know that you likely mark out way more coffee (I assume) because one person wants Sumatra, one person wants Estima, one person wants Organic Serena, one person wants Kenya ... thus you open up many more bags of coffee. But "waste" is no worry when no more coffee drinkers walk through the doors.

Whats the change to the Vivanno recipe?

[Mike]

@Barista -- be careful how you word information. You make it sound like this is fact when in reality it's not, at least not to my knowledge. That button is used primarily for stores that use the label machines so the drink is marked properly. I know there are stores out there that charge for extra syrup, caramel, sweetener in iced coffee, etc. The fact remains that if it's already an ingredient in the drink, the customer does not get charged for extra...stores that are doing this are doing so against policy.
Also, I think as partners we all have to take a look in the mirror a little bit here. No doubt improper ringing procedures have led to inaccurate reporting. This is probably the same reporting our leadership looks at and makes decisions. On our POS machines there is a brewed button (for ringing regular Pike), a Morning Pick button (for the bold option), and a decaf button. Truth be told the majority of the time partners are simply hitting the Brewed button no matter which coffee we're selling, so BY THE NUMBERS it LOOKS like the company is doing amazing sales with Pike Place while wasting bold and decaf like mad.
I'm not sticking up for our leadership. The criticism here is definitely warranted. If they were paying attention and actually LISTENING to our partners and our customers they'd make some rational decisions. But the fact of the matter is that these are people who are buried up to their necks analyzing reports and making decisions based on those numbers.
My suggestion is make sure your partners are ringing properly!

[gmreat]

@ Jim C

I'm afraid I don't follow your post. I've been with the company a little over a year and our pastries have always come frozen. Different pastries had different hold times according to how fast they will get stale/hard. Some are kept only one day, while others (such as cookies) are kept for up to three. I should mention that with proper pulling and marking, we almost always sell out of a pastry product long before the maximum hold time.
We also recently launched warming at my store, and our sandwiches have also always come frozen. And you are correct, the hold time on those is 2 days (refrigerated).
Are there stores out there that receive fresh pastries and sandwiches on a daily basis? Because in my experience, what you are saying in your post doesn't seem like anything new.

[Mike]

The change to the Vivanno recipe is that you're using the TALL lines on the pitcher, not the grande lines...and also you're adding two scoops of protein/fiber powder instead of three...

[The Cupcake Latte]

The communication about the change in decaf brewing stated that you should act responsively to what your individual stores business dictates, just like you are supposed to for brewing the Morning Pick. That is to say that *if* your business supports brewing the MP (and now the decaf) longer or even all day, not just on demand, then you need to do it. I swear to Barbie, I do not understand what people find so difficult about executing this at the store level. This is just basic common sense cost control people. No one in this company is ever going to yell at a SM for supporting their *actual* sales by brewing throughout the day. We are after all a money-making venture last time I checked. If you have the sales then BREW! Keep your customers happy!

It is all about keeping the balance between our customers happiness and actively managing our business. It is possible to create that balance consistently, but not perfectly. Then again I don't remember the epitome of perfection being a job requirement for any of us. Relax & manage your business, support your sales, support your partners and give customers something worth coming back for.

Come on guys! It's not the end of the world, I swear!

[Mel]

I think it comes down to common sense. If your store sells a lot of decaf at a certain time then keep brewing it, if your store doesn't sell it at least keep it preped. The store I work at sells virtually no pikes and no decaf, everyone wants a bold coffee so we have a full batch ready at all times. My store was wasting so much decaf coffee just in case someone might want it and I can't tell you how many gallons of decaf I have poured down the sink. I do understand why people are upset, we are a coffee house and we keep cutting our coffee menu. I think this is just another way of upper management telling us to waste less.I also understand that some might have to wait for decaf to brew but there have been plenty of times that people have had to wait for a new batch of regular to brew because we were so busy that we went through 3 full batches of coffee, waiting for your drink happens sometimes. Now if they really want to save some money they can get rid of that horrid vivanno and that huge unused peice of scrap metal that is currently taking up my prep space called the Sorbetto!!! Nothings worse when your on a roll at hot bar durring a rush and you see a vivanno cup sitting smack in the middle of the hot cups!! AGGH!

[natpark1]

"Are there stores out there that receive fresh pastries and sandwiches on a daily basis?"
-- gmreat

Yes, we got fresh deliveries ever night in Texas. I'm now up in the midwest with the frozen pastries and can't stand it.

[Ryan (SS)]

Cupcake Latte, I'm happy you posted because I was ready to say exactly what you did.

This is a smart move from corporate to reduce waste and cost. How many gallons of decaf does each store dump out every day? A pretty substantial amount.

I agree that we should be brewing the MP all day, however 99% of stores will do fine brewing decaf on demand after noon.

To any partners who say that they refuse to follow this new guideline, I'll say this: For every batch of decaf that you brew after noon and don't sell, that is a little less money out of my stores budget, and The Cupcake Latte's budget, and every person who IS following the new guideline. Think of WHY a guideline is a guideline. So everyone can follow it. Everyone has to pinch back a little in this economy, and Starbucks does too.

And to the partner who talked about the "free coffee if it's not ready" policy: This is an outdated policy. Please look in your BRM, we are no longer offering this out. Make sure everyone in your store is on the same page. If everyone upholds the rule that everyone pays, you will have no problems with customers. My former SM had this policy, and when he left and our new manager came in she re-trained all the customers that they do not get a free coffee if it's not ready. If they are not willing to wait the three minutes, then they can leave (or they should be drinking regular!)

[Joe]

Boy, this is gonna make life tough for those bad-ass partners who brag about decaffing so called difficult customers.

I can just hear it "hey, your drink is gonna take an extra four minutes - I gotta brew some decaf so I can decaf you without your knowledge"

I ran a very low volume store and had only 2 or 3 decaf customers a day. Never had decaf brewing all day, too much variance. We often offer decaf americanos for the price of drip... Quicker and no waste but always offer to brew it if they are willing to wait

[Barista]

Thanks Mike. Do you know where the best to look up the correct policy regarding the xtra sauce and syrup charges..
I guess i just really stand behing my maneger and believes most that he says.
This could be his quick way to bring up sales.

[Javaccino]

On our POS machines there is a brewed button (for ringing regular Pike), a Morning Pick button (for the bold option), and a decaf button. Truth be told the majority of the time partners are simply hitting the Brewed button no matter which coffee we're selling, so BY THE NUMBERS it LOOKS like the company is doing amazing sales with Pike Place while wasting bold and decaf like mad.

I'm in complete agreement with Mike here. Let's hit those Decaf and Morning Pick buttons.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

I think each store should fend for itself now.

Let's do another scenario:

Store A follows the guidelines and no longer brews BOLD or DECAF after 12.

Store B brews BOLD and DECAF all day.

Customers know that Store B will have BOLD and DECAF. Customers will go to Store B and therefore increase their sales and not Store A. If Store B sells only 50 more cups of BOLD and DECAF each day thats still another $100 at the end of the day.

No bring it out further and say that customers know that Store A, C, and D do not have BOLD or DECAF so they drive past them to Store B. Hmmmmm, I wonder which store could get more sales in the end.

After Christmas, the stores which had ordered an extra amount of eggnog got the customers who liked it the most to come to their stores for it. That means more customers will go to the Starbucks which will have the product on-hand for them instead having to wait.

Customers want it and they want it now! They do not have the 4 minutes to wait for a cup of coffee. I certainly don't especially if you wait like 2 minutes just to get to the register because the store is short-staffed.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

I'll be hitting them "Morning Pick" and "Decaf" buttons like white trailer park trash.

[Barista]

I highly agree with pressing the buttons. morning pick, brew, decaf. I will push to all my partners

[Melody]

Javaccino & Mike - You're right about the button problem. It happens over and over again to me - I get the morning pick and my receipt says "sh brewed coffee" - I am looking at one right now. Though it makes me cringe to think that I am adding to the PPR numbers when actually that's not what I drink, I think it would be obnoxious for me to try and correct baristas, so I never say anything about that.

Also, I have gone round in circles with baristas who insist on not charging me for drip coffee when I have to wait 3 minutes, but I can be fierce about wanting to be charged, and I win that battle 99% of the time. But A LOT of baristas subscribe to the idea that the coffee is free if you wait 3 minutes. That's silly. I didn't come in for free coffee - I just want to walk out with my tumbler full. My cup runneth over with morning pick.

[AliCat]

Joe - I don't do it myself, nor do I advocate it, but most of the time when customers get 'decaffed' it's at the bar, and through espresso shots that go in to a latte.

FYI.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Melody,
I'm very sorry about this situation. It keeps on getting worse and worse. Almost like the Palestinian problem. And yes I said the Palestinians are a problem. But I digress. Michelle "FAT ASS" Gass keeps on approving these wonderful ideas. Maybe she should go back to felating another frappuccino light, it might help a bit.

[green_cup]

stillamanager, let me go ahead and set you straight:

You all need to seriously get a life.

Decaf IS NOT, I repeat IS NOT going away. If you can't wait 3 minutes for a cup of decaf you have a problem.

High brew stores will still have the option to brew past noon if their sales indicate there is a need. And as posted above, you're probably getting old decaf anyway, so now you are assured a nice fresh cup or even better an americano for the same price. Night sales rarely indicate a higher need for decaf, unless perhaps your store is surrounded by a retirement community.

I'll try not to lose sleep over the 4 people a day who may or may not have to wait a bit longer for their Decaf. If they drank caffeinated they might have more energy to wait in line behind the people buying real drinks.

And for the jackass that posted that there are now extra syrup buttons on the POS, uh, DUH! The extra button has always been there. How else do you think all those greedy caramel frappuccino customers have been getting extra caramel to suck up their straws for free?

Posted by: stillamanager | January 26, 2009 at 06:36 PM

1. No, you need to get a life and realize your customers are complaining. Unhappy customers = low sales = less pay for you and your cohort. YOU should be worried. Mix this "little" issue in with the other "little" issues and you have MANY UNHAPPY CUSTOMERS UNHAPPY ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.

2. Again, if a coffee shop, Starbucks does not have a type of basic coffee on hand, ready to serve, fresh, then it's actually Starbucks' problem. Frankly, I can go lots of places to get my coffee. Hell, even in my own house. People come to Starbucks to get efficient, excellent service (well used to, I should say). I would LOVE for you to say to a customer, in that very flippant attitude you and your co-workers have seemed to master so well, that he or she needs to wait three minutes for a product THEY'RE PAYING FOR THAT IS IN TURN PAYING YOUR BILLS, and they tell you no way, not interested and you try to turn it back on them like it's their issue... yeah, let me know how well that goes. I will lauuuuuuuuuugh.

3. McDonalds, the laughing stock of the coffee world has figured out how to put decaf coffee on all of the time. I can't vouch for freshness, but, hell, it's there. Presentation aside, if someone asks for it, more than likely they'll be able to pour you some. STARBUCKS, PURVEYOR OF "FINE" COFFEES WORLDWIDE, can't figure it out?! Wow.

4. Four people a day, over, conservatively 75% of the stores, over, again, conservatively 5 days a week. How much money are you talking about here? And, then they'll tell their co-workers, friends, family not to visit Starbucks. How much more money is lost through word of mouth?

I think you don't understand that Starbucks isn't swimming in money anymore. They're literally LAYING OFF PEOPLE. You could be next. Ironically, Starbucks cannot afford to lose customers, yet it's all they seem to know how to do recently. For you to take the flippant attitude you've most likely been trained to attain and act out is very telling of how Starbucks is going to come out of this recession.

And, Howard and Friends will be just fine. He's already wealthy. He can literally fly his way into better times, whenever they come about, but have no fear that the minute the next short-sighted policy takes effect and somehow they decide it'll be you on the chopping block, you will be fired. It seems the upper management has decided it's them or you, and you'll lose.

It's just sad the customers have lost, too.