Starbucks now only serves decaf drip coffee on request after noon

This has been discussed in the Open Thread below, but I'm moving the chatter to this thread. There's also been some discussion about the new decaf policy on the Starbucks Twitter page. || Jump to the most recently posted comments

Comments

[green_cup]

Alicat,

I think Joe was trying to be funny. Only 99% of the people out there would see that, so I can totally see how you, the tiny 1% would not.

It's called humor and sarcasm. I'd suggest you look it up in these oh-so-tough times.

Stupid.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

There are some basics that Starbucks should always have. One of them being decaf. I might personally believe in "Death before Decaf" but now we are seeing the "Death of Decaf." DECAF and BOLD can share the same grave together.

As a store partner, i say FINALLY! :D

[Karl Kenya]

Folks, if your business justifies brewing decaf at 9:00 at night, then brew decaf at 9:00 at night.

This isn't difficult. Nor is it an issue.

Vicki Verona = Michelle Gaas

(those who are laughing are the ones who were here when Vicki Verona would proudly post that she discontinued creme light frappuccinos at her store because they weren't selling)

[helloblueroses]

i'm glad to see few people with a calmer outlook on this.

my store has been doing a variation of the 'decaf on request' idea since around October (we're a high volume store, around 30,000 a week, and we average 5-7 decaf coffees a day, including half-cafs) and we have encountered approximately 5 complaints in that time. complaints that, as always, are pretty much turned around by actually bothering to CONNECT with a customer and telling them that, in 3 minutes, they will have the freshest cup of decaf PPR in town (and while you're connecting, 30 seconds to a minute of that wait time have elapsed). The 'decaf til noon' idea is actually much better than what we were doing, which was simply 'decaf on request' all day long.

as for the change in vivanno recipe--we made some today. practically zero waste now, and none of us were able to notice a difference in taste or consistency. not crazy about the loss in nutritional value (the 'need to know' stated that the loss was not 'substantial', but was still a loss), but at least now i don't have 3/4 of an inch to rinse out after each one.

as for charging extra for included syrups--as many above have said, yes, that's definitely not true.

and as for what i read about not actively sampling pastries anymore--we haven't heard anything about that, and even if we do, we won't follow it. we sample constantly, all day, from open til close, and maintain a markout percentage of 3-4%. i'm sure some DM's and SM's are probably taking that measure to try to stem some loss, and the new food guidelines seem to have some people freaked, but if you know how to manage your case, then you can sample every minute and be completely fine.

[Jim C]

Maybe Starbucks should close the store at Noon, since over 75% of our sales are before 11am.

[sasha]

We lost an asm today. I dont think they were being any more than "human". Anyone remember that Starbucks termanology "human" or "human element"wtf!?

[S]

Crybaby threads are not my favorite to read, but I feel drawn to encourage you all to simmer a bit and consider this...

Despite the intended warm fuzziness, Starbucks is still a business and needs to run like one. If you think in-depth analytical research wasn't put into the whole decaf conundrum, I am sorry for your ignorance. If it fails, you can bet your bottoms that Sbux will get back to brewing decaf without interruption. The company's plan for sustainability runs deeper than some seem to realize. The "waste" that is being eliminated with the decaf and dairy programs is MONEY ($$$). Eliminating monetary waste is the "mysterious (lol)" underlying theme to keeping a business afloat. (srsly?!)

There is still a very bright side to this company, despite the overwhelming negativity in the thread. For any of you who feel genuinely compelled to contribute your opinions and feelings regarding Sbux current events and ongoings, I hope you are familiar with mystarbucksidea.force.com. Your words and sentiments would do better there than just filling the pool of tears here.

Be good, all.

S

[Joe]

Alicat -

I was being farcicial. Or facetious, if you like.

[CamSpi]

Oh no! I had the last week off for vacation. I feel like there are going to be a lot of things which have changed.

To me, it doesn't matter if your stats say you should not brew decaf at 9pm, because we don't always have the exact same customers, every day, at the exact same time. Just think, your first visit to a Starbucks after seeing a movie, you go to order a decaf, and they tell you it will be 5 minutes (I don't know where this 3 minute business came from, brew time is 4 plus 1 for the drip lock). Not a very good impression. Especially when there is a QuickTrip next door. Oh, and they have fresh decaf AND it's ready.

[Melody- a post ONLY for BostonStarbucksRebel & JimC]

BostonStarbucksRebel, I see you're having a Gass playing around with executive names! LOL. If you want a good belly laugh on executive analysis, carefully follow the posts of Jim C, especially in the most recent open thread. I know it's tempting to join in and perhaps even Burrow into the topic of what in the heck is a "lean" store. But seriously though, really I (we) should refrain from throwing digs at executives given that I have nothing to go on, don't know these people, and we're missing any useful information to pass judgment. The defense always gets to put on a case before jury deliberations. Okay, now totally in a serious tone: Calling Ms. Gass a "fat ass" genuinely bothers me despite that I don't know her from Adam. My mother always told me that wasn't very good manners. (I don't think she's heavy from what I could glean from google images, but that really is beside the point).

Sorry.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[CAS]

You can pour during the funnel lock and a quarter batch is only 3 minutes

[Ryan (SS)]

Green_Cup: Did you ever think that, I dunno, maybe Starbucks is doing this new decaf thing because we're...losing money? That's why I'm NOT getting laid off...brewing decaf on demand will save more money over time then losing those few customers make us. Please stop trolling our board and go back to your own board, the one for cynics like you. I can see why you're annoyed about the lack of decaf, you probably can't have caffeine due to your high blood pressure. Try this: RELAX

[Ryan (SS)]

And if there was ever an awesomest post award on here, it would go to S. What he/she says is very true...almost...Howie-sounding...

One of the big changes when we switched over to the new brewing standards was that you are NOT allowed to pour during funnel lock. It's still a standard. And, my store must have different equipment than yours, because quater batch is 4:15 on our brewers.

[Illysook]

I'm a former barista who know lives in South Korea as an ESL teacher. I wanted a decaf latte after dinner ond night and the barista proudly told me that "we don't have decaf in Korea." That turns out to be true throughout the land. Most of you who post here live in America and either have jobs at Starbucks, or have jobs which provide income enough to afford the coffee at Starbucks. Decaf is available. Count your blessings and quit whining.

[Mike]

@Barista -- nothing wrong with listening to your SM. Sometimes we make mistakes too! If you want to find the information on adding syrups, check out the Beverage Resource Manual and you may also want to check the POS Resource Manual. I know there's a whole section in one of them that tells you exactly how to charge in every situation.
Probably wouldn't be a bad idea for stores to post this. While many of us need to ensure we're charging enough by not giving too much away for free and losing sales, it's sad there are stores out there that continue to overcharge the customer.

[Shift Soup]

I gotta say, I agree with you green_cup. stillamanagers user name alone sounds like he's holding onto his job with a death grip. I know if I displayed an attitude like his, my DM would hand me my ass and my pink slip simultaneously. I may not agree with alot of what ol' Howies doing, but Starbucks not serving coffee? That's just stupid.

[green_cup]

Green_Cup: Did you ever think that, I dunno, maybe Starbucks is doing this new decaf thing because we're...losing money? That's why I'm NOT getting laid off...brewing decaf on demand will save more money over time then losing those few customers make us. Please stop trolling our board and go back to your own board, the one for cynics like you. I can see why you're annoyed about the lack of decaf, you probably can't have caffeine due to your high blood pressure. Try this: RELAX

Posted by: Ryan (SS) | January 27, 2009 at 12:16 AM

Except that you, and your company, are doing the WRONG thing to "save" money.

This is such a short-sighted policy (much like the bold, but this change is much deeper.) Look at it this way: yeah, it saves some money now. Hell, it might save money for this quarter. But, what about down the road? What about next quarter or Christmas quarter? Those customers you're telling "no" to today -- say, conservatively, 40% don't return. Say, again, conservatively, 25% of that 40% are "regulars," that don't return -- or return less, only, say, with co-workers.

How much money have you lost in sales versus just having decaf (or bold) on hand and wasting any residual? I understand that the profit margin on drip coffee is ridiculously high, so I'm sure wasting half a pot of coffee costs almost nothing.

To run a business, you must INVEST in it. Those "investments" should be directed, when in retail food service, to create and retain regular customers.

I'll even go as far as to say that Starbucks has initiated this type of policy before, last November/ December. When they cut labor back DURING CHRISTMAS, it had the same affect. Well, probably worse. I know I never came back after being "asked" to wait in line for more than five minutes.

I think you don't realize that when Starbucks policy and standards, when it does stuff like this, it creates a complete change in perception and reputation for Starbucks...

The customers will complain at say, decaf not being around or the line being 10 minutes long due to a "labor shortage". Yes, Starbucks customers are whiny. They've been "raised" to be so per early Starbucks policies (JSY, etc). In turn, those customers will start to talk to friends about or think long lines and/ or BASIC PRODUCT UNAVAILABILITY are the new norm and "establish" this situation AS the norm. Then, customers will not return or not go in to Starbucks because it has a reputation of long lines and/ or product unavailability.

So, yeah, you may have your job >>>NOW<<< but come see me in six month, a year, two years and let me know how well that's working out for you when the customers never return and sales sag even more. These short-sighted policy implementations will come back to haunt Starbucks (if they aren't already).

[sbux partner]

It's about the bottom line. If your store can and does support it then your manager should make that decision. Our store stopped brewing decaf at 10am yesterday and not one person ordered a decaf all day! We didn't have to brew it again until 8pm!!! I looked at our numbers to decided what is ordered when and we're going to work from there.

I think what hurt us is going to brewing every 30 minutes. We wasted a lot less, almost always had coffee, and customers weren't nearly as cranky (considering if you're the third person in line and you all want venti's oops no more coffee unless you wait 4 minutes or take the other coffee being offered.) We can't go back to the hour because we made such a big deal that it was SOOOO wrong. UGH!

[Melody]

Ryan, there are basically two kinds of participants at Starbucks Gossip on this issue.

One group of posters here is full of apathy about this issue and doesn't see the big deal. They're not very passionate about coffee - I mean drip brewed coffee,

The other group of posters is upset probably more for symbolic reasons than anything else. These words are what are important to them:

Starbucks purchases and roasts high-quality whole bean coffees and sells them along with fresh, rich-brewed, Italian style espresso beverages, a variety of pastries and confections, and coffee-related accessories and equipment -- primarily through its Company-operated retail stores

The apathetic group of contributors, I assume, don't remember a time when Starbucks thought that coffee was its core business product, and they probably don't remember baristas doing blind coffee tastings or regularly being able to discuss wash methods/ growing regions.

"Brew on demand" wouldn't be sooo awful if it didn't turn into an UGLY game sometimes. "Brew on demand" signals to baristas that it is okay to tell customers to (1) accept a substitute (an Americano or a french press or even worse (2) tell customers "we're out of coffee". Then you get into the ugly situation where a customer has to literally DEMAND that coffee be brewed and most customers will walk out the door before they get to that point.

^ If we could get rid of that game, I'd lose a lot of my steam on this topic. And no I do not want a french press.

What Starbucks should do is (1) go back to longer hold times so there is less waste - it worked for 20 years, why the hell did it suddenly not work in 2008? (2) change the name of "brew on demand" to "We will OFFER to brew it for you, even if I have to rip open a flavor lock bag of coffee"* and (3) give more than lip-service to the idea that coffee is the core product.

But APATHY is a lot easier, and those who are filled with apathy love to sit back and make fun of people who have some passion for coffee. Pour your heart into it?

And as an aside, no wonder the roasting plants have been laying off people ... you can't sell whole bean coffee if you're not talking about it, not brewing, not about the coffee.

You still have a ton of customers who want Starbucks to "be about the coffee" - That's a repeating message over and over again at MSI.

*Maybe Starbucks should call it "the immediate coffee offering" - Those are better words and signal to the baristas the right VERB. It would work better if when I walk into a Starbucks I'd hear, "Hi, ma'am our 'afternoon immediate coffee offering' is Verona. It will just take a couple of minutes - no longer than waiting for an Americano. Let me get that started." Ahhh that would be almost a dream come true for me. Yes, this is a good name for it, a better compromise: It's the "immediate coffee offering" and not "brew on demand." I hate spending longer arguing about getting a cup of coffee than it actually takes to brew it.

[iokua79]

Here's what I recommend to all of you who are freaking out.

Go another week brewing Decaf as you normally do, but ensure everyone rings decaf 100% accurately on the POS as it's sold. Use those numbers for the week to determine what time to start brewing
Decaf "On Demand."

Look at the news. Sprint has recently cut 8,000 jobs, Home Depot has cut 8,000 jobs, etc. Starbucks has not reduced your benefits, or cut your jobs.
Think about it.
We're going into our protective shell until this blows over.

[iokua79]

Here's another Idea. We used our secondary Chalkboard to alert our decaf customers of the change, and included our store phone number so they can call ahead and get the brewing started before they get there.
I've also put a whole mess of business cards by the POS to hand out as needed.

[BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL]

Melody,
I appreciate your comments about me not having any class. A bit, ummm the coffee press calling the urn black? But anyway, if you knew me in person I am just as tasteless and obnoxious as I am on here. Once, I lose respect for you, I can't help but criticizing you. I think Michelle "Fat Ass" Gass could learn a few things about "lean" practices, it might help a bit.
I was reading through some of her background actually which is interesting. She did a huge project on the EPA's Superfund which cleans up toxic dumps like the Love Channel tragedy in New York. Unforunately, it appears that Michelle "Fat Ass" Gass no longer knows how to solve solutions but only amerliorates the situations. She approves some blond bimbo's (sorry Melody if you're blond) crazy ideas and then implements them throughout Retail North America. Wait I forgot Michelle "Fat Ass" Gass is a blond bimbo, its like the Starbucks "Gold" Club.

BOSTON STARBUCKS REBEL
PRIMUS INTER PARES
STARBUCKS RBEEL ALLIANCE

[HT]

One thing to keep in mind here is that there are a lot of customers who drink decaf exclusively. Although I usually order an espresso drink, I will order a cup of decaf drip if the line is long. If I have to wait for the decaf drip, I will likely walk out the door.

[curious1]

To second, you cannot pour until funnel lock is finished! This is not an optional idea!

Also, we are making no changes this week, but are tracking every decaf (and half caf) sold after noon. We record the size and time it was sold. That way the managers can make a truly informed decision come next Monday.

I can not believe all complaining over not brewing coffee at times when its not selling. You know when your decaf customers come in, so make sure you have it ready....no manager who values their customers and partners will get made over it. If a new customer comes in when there isn't decaf PPR ready and they don't have time to wait offer them a decaf americano, use right now recovery...and guess what they will be happy.

As far as the name calling...PLEASE we are not school children. Get a touch of reality and learn to respectfully voice your disagreements, then you will find people will actually listen to you.

The common thread I see here: a good portion of you would not be happy with anything that is changed.

Are you just as negative in the store and the rest of your relationships or do you save it for this site?

Find the positive in this...no decaf when no one wants it....now you aren't running to turn off the timer, dump it into the sink, preparing another patch of it. You are now connecting with a customer while cleaning the cafe, stocking, wiping of those refridge vents so facilities won't yell at you...etc.

[Kenya?Yukon!]

Economic "common sense" or not, I think taking decaf away (and i word it that way because you know there will be DM's, RDO's et all who will be stalking stores to make sure it's not being brewed, because only they have time to obsess like that) is like Burger King announcing that it will only sell cheeseburgers, and not plain hamburgers, because they don't sell as well.
I'm sorry, a wasted 1/4 batch of decaf costs the company less then a dollar (at what starbucks paid to make it), far less than I bet it cost to produce those Portuguese clay mugs we have (all twelve of them still sitting on my shelf, just waiting for their little red markdown stickers).

[whatwhat]

So......... In light of all the changes and cut backs, how long do you think before they tell us to go back to using the single shot button @ the bar, instead of wasting so much espresso???

[whatwhat]

To iokua79:

"Sprint has recently cut 8,000 jobs, Home Depot has cut 8,000 jobs, etc. Starbucks has not reduced your benefits, or cut your jobs.
Think about it.
We're going into our protective shell until this blows over."

Uhhh.... Did you NOT get the memo that Starbucks started CLOSING 500 stores???

I think the idea of posting a phone number to call ahead will GREATLY backfire. People will use it to call ahead orders in the Am during rush to and you will have complaints of long lines when no one is on lobby because of phone orders ect. It also looks negative to the store to have a message like this posted. It is clearly stated that stores that have the need can brew past 12. What is everyones problem? You complain about to much work to do and waste; yet when Starbucks tries to help us out, you still open your mouths.

If there are no new pastries, why sample them, unless asked by a guest? I go to Costco reguarly who is like the king of sampling, and VERY seldom do I ever see the same product sampled twice within like 6-9 months. With the limited items we sell, this isnt much sampling. It allows the chance to host sampling parties where you can have a dedicated partner there to connect with guests and truly know and explain the product. I think this is a great move.

-Former ASM in WA

and a wasted 1/4 batch costs alot more then 1.00 as Kenya stated. It costs for the coffee, shipping, 2 filters an hour, the labor to make the coffee, drain the brewer, clean the brewer, extra ware on the machines (both grinders and brewers), extra electricity to hold the temp, cost of water, water filter use.... now times that by the number of Starbucks and every day of the year... you are talking some real money here. But Hey Starbucks could not try to save money and close another dozen or so stores and then this would be a whole different thread...

[Melody]

@anon at 7:48 - but if the only thing that management at Starbucks can think up to do to save money is eliminate a core product's availability, we're in sorry shape. It is much like going to your favorite burger place and finding that they sell only chicken burgers after 2:00 pm. You can have a substitute or you can argue with the cashier and beg for them to make you one burger.

You should read foodie's post in the open thread. It's fabulous.

More penny-wise pound foolish from Starbucks. This just means that true coffee drinkers will go to competitors where they don't have to wait or beg for coffee.

There are a lot better ways to save money: heck, start by getting rid of the management bloat going on at Starbucks!

[SoOverIt]

this decaf thing is the least of the worries of starbucks. come tomorrow, heads will roll.

[Me]

I don't really like the idea of getting rid of decaf as a regular ready to go offer. But to be honest, since it is such a slow selling item, especially in the evening hours (I know it sounds weird, but that's how it is in my store), we kind of had a brew on demand policy already. Not officially of course, but no one really bothered to brew fresh decaf when it expired. We just kept it on, told a customer who asked for it (about two a night) it just expired and we are going to start a fresh batch especially for him. Since evening customers are usually not so much in a hurry they don't mind waiting or go for the also offered decaf americano. So for us it will be no real loss.

But does this decision translate into starbucks only having one kind of coffee on tap after noon? Or does this decision free up labour and resources to get bold back on tap in the US?

We don't really have this bold issue up here in Canada yet, but we will start PPR next week and I'm really afraid we will end up only brewing PPR and nothing else. Even Mac's or 7/11 offer more than one kind of coffee ready to go at a time.
This will be the end of Starbucks as a gourmet coffee store, where people had their favorite coffees they liked.
If you never get a chance to try anything else but PPR you are most likely never going to find out what amazing beans Starbucks has to offer. So bean sales will be next to go down significantly, until we decide to distribute them exclusively through grocery stores.

[joel]

Dunkin Donuts HQ loves sbux!

"We can't go back to the hour because we made such a big deal that it was SOOOO wrong."

We also made a big deal about shots needing to be pulled into shot glasses, look where that got us.

"What Starbucks should do is (1) go back to longer hold times so there is less waste - it worked for 20 years, why the hell did it suddenly not work in 2008? (2) change the name of "brew on demand" to "We will OFFER to brew it for you, even if I have to rip open a flavor lock bag of coffee"* and (3) give more than lip-service to the idea that coffee is the core product."

Melody, well said. I completely agree with these ideas especially number 1!

"To run a business, you must INVEST in it. Those "investments" should be directed, when in retail food service, to create and retain regular customers."

green_cup: This is what it's all about. You are correct.

[Bham]

Not sure what all the fuss is about. We 1/4 batch decaf, and dump almost 95% down the drain each day. In fact last week we sold a total of 34 decaf coffees($23,000 as wk store). As a manager, I HATE wasting product! If you sell a lot of decaf, keep brewing, its that simple. Ever since we went to 30 minute brew time, the company has seen it's coffee variance shoot through the roof.It's about controlling the things you can. Why waste a product if you don't need to?

[Aaron]

Melody, as a barista, I have to disagree with you partially. Baristas today are apathetic not just because Starbucks has shifted its focus away from coffee. It's because they have shifted their focus away from the workers. There has not been an across the board raise in about two years, during which time cost of living has skyrocketed. And on top of that, thousands of baristas were laid off and fed misleading information about transfering and severance pay, hours are being slashed, and 401k matching is no longer guaranteed. It's easy to see why service is not as good. Because Starbucks ultimately doesn't care about its workers. Sure, Howie's pet issue is healthcare, and I'm glad. But the man flies to Hawaii on the corporate jet, and oh-so-graciously forgoes a raise on his 10 million dollar compensation package. Starbucks has lost its way in more than just coffee. Or should I say, it only ever pretended to care when the market was right. In tough times, it shows it lays out its cards.

This change, however, is the first one in a while that is not anti-worker. Yeah, we'll have to explain this to a few upset customers. But the time not spent brewing coffee for no reason makes up for that. And the money not spent on wasted coffee is money that doesn't need to be cut in the usual area: labor.

[*misscelestia*]

Personally, I think it is a roundabout way of saying that our decaf customer's time isn't as valuable as our caf customers. It's unfair. A person shouldn't be forced to wait for their coffee simply because it is decaf - part of what people come to SBUX for is speed and convenience (isn't that why we picked up DTs?).

[Sneaky]

Do any of you current Starbucks partners ever read your resource manuals at all?

Not brewing decaf after noon has been a company standard - forever! This has been a fight between managers (who historically don't want to due to cost savings) and the RD's who have unrealistic demands. Your resource manuals clearly state that from noon on you as a manager can make your own choice as long as it makes sense for your customers and you are managing your coffee COGS (cost of goods).

Nothing new. Same story - different day.
Geez.

[scootes]

so if we figure out exactly when every customer is going to walk thru the door and what they are going to want day by day then what happens when the weather or some other factor is different then what are we going to do!!! you can not in this industry (fast food since drive thrus were introduced, and try and tell me i'm wrong) figure out statisticly when the same customers are going to frequent and what they are going to purchase. you can try but isn't that more of a money down the tube paying someone to sit and look at those numbers and then give you the answer that no true pattern can be established? just a thought from one who has been around a long time in this world! big ben parliment

[mift supervisor]

our regular decaf customers are gonna be pissed. they're probably going to go to McDonalds now. Furthermore, i do think that the regular brewed coffee button gets pushed for most coffee purchases by baristas in my store. I don't think many of us use the decaf button. perhaps this is part of the numbers problem...

[hbear214]

Where did the information about heads rolling tomorrow (see SoOverIt above) and 500 more store closings (see whatwhat posting above). Is this true? Wow!

[BCbarista]

At our store we're brewing decaf from 7:30am-10:45am and then after 6:30pm to closing. Why? Because we know that a select few (less than 5!) decaf drinkin' regulars come in around these times.

Here's what I say: Good riddance! We get about 1-3 requests for decaf from 1045am-630pm. It's such a waste! We've got decaf in a french press set up, and if you really want us to, we will brew it in the urn for you. Sometimes you even have to wait at McDonald's for 3 minutes, so give me a break.

When it's busy as all hell, it's such a pain to have to brew 3 different coffees. Especially when you're dumping the entire quarter batch of decaf out every 30 min!

I'm just sayin'. It might not work out for every store, and that I can sympathize with. But it sure does for ours. IJAF.

Also, this website depresses me.

[erstwhile]

Really. Really? All of the complaining.

This is a good change. It saves baristas time, and it saves the company money.

[Barista]

Anyone who disagrees with this does not know what they are talking about. We are eliminating so much waste this way.

Q1 earnings conference call is tomorrow... I think most are expecting VERY poor results. Those given to speculation might tell you they expect another round of store closures... And then there's the ugly rumour of more lay-offs. If your position includes handling money every day, you should feel relatively safe. All others...