Overall, in the five years I worked at Starbucks, I had many customers who ordered their drinks "extra hot." Their main reasons were:
* Preference for beverages that are HOT not "very warm"
* Taking the beverage elsewhere to drink and wanting it to still be warm upon arrival.
* Slooooowwww beverage drinker (the kind that can sit in the cafe and drink one cup of coffee for an hour)
* Cold weather. (When I worked at Starbucks in North Dakota, the temperatures would reach -30F plus wind chill, so drinks cooled down QUICKLY if taken outside/ordered in a drivethru)
* Used to temperature of brewed coffee or tea (much hotter than a milk-based espresso beverage at Starbucks)
Back when I first started working at Starbucks, the acceptable range for beverage temperature was around 145-165 degrees. That's not really all that hot. Many people, my mother included, prefer their drinks to actually be much warmer than that. Tired of hearing her complaints (since I worked at Starbucks, she would always tell me about her disappointments with various other Starbucks and drinks), I told her to order it "extra hot." This works (sort of), but because it's nonspecific, she again would get a range of temperatures that would either be too cool, too warm, or just right. So we experimented one day when she was at my store, and hit upon 180 degrees as her "perfect" temperature. Because it's the MILK that is being steamed to 180, it didn't really make her espresso shots taste any better or worse, and it did help counterbalance the cooling effect of the mocha syrup in the bottom. (For what it's worth, other than her favorite french pressed dark roasts, her "perfect" drink is a triple tall four pump nonfat no whip 180 degree mocha)
DISCUSS THIS OR ANYTHING ELSE STARBUCKS-RELATED IN THE OPEN THREAD. || Jump to second page of comments.
Problem with extra hot milk is that you lose some of the sweetness of the milk. Not to mention, you can't create velvety, creamy foam with extra hot milk. That's why I always scream internally when someone orders an extra hot cappuccino, or worse, an extra hot soy cappuccino.
This is exactly why all of the hipster indie shops that have baristas that enter latte art competitions steam milk to 140, and usually sense that based on hearing and touch...no thermometers.
Posted by: Iced Latte | January 21, 2012 at 12:21 PM
What's triple tall?
Posted by: Herman | January 21, 2012 at 01:03 PM
Well with the machines at most Starbucks "extra hot" is a button we press that steams it to 170 instead of 160, so it's not unspecific to say extra hot, but the actual temperature of your drink depends on lots of factors like what syrups you use (heavier syrups like white mocha cool your drink considerably) as well as outside temperature and such. Like ordering through a drive through sometimes the drink sits by the window for a few minutes before we give it to you and it can cool off big time in these Missouri winters
Posted by: STL_Nick | January 21, 2012 at 01:05 PM
Huh. I never thought about the syrups cooling the temperature...Good to know! Also, I'm one of those people who likes my drink hot, but only because I like my hot stuff hot and my cold stuff cold. I don't like my drinks (or food) being room temp/lukewarm.
Posted by: Martha | January 21, 2012 at 01:29 PM
I actually asked some customers about this - for me anything over 120 is too hot. Some people told me that they like the 'burnt milk' taste (this is coming from a soy, no foam, no water, 200o Tazo chai), or the sensitivity of their tongue/mouth is degraded so they can't feel hot and cold as easily.
Posted by: Dante | January 21, 2012 at 01:31 PM
Yeah some people love their 200 degree milk. Personally I can't stand to make those because milk burns up there around 200, and then my apron will smell like burnt milk until I wash it. The hottest I would reccomend so that the milk doesn't burn is 180
Posted by: STL_Nick | January 21, 2012 at 02:43 PM
We still have older machines at my store, and use a thermometer to steam extra hot to 180. I've gotten it down that I can get it to 180 based on the sound of the milk. I always just take mine at the normal temperature.
The worst for me is a soy extra hot green tea latte. That's just all foam!
Posted by: MS | January 21, 2012 at 03:04 PM
When I worked at SBUX I had one customer who literally demanded their drink be steamed to 250. I explained that's not allowed, etc. Customer fought back and demanded it. My SM also bit back and politely explained we can't really do it over 200, etc. Customer took it one step further and actually called our DM (using one of the handy business cards we kept out that asks customers to tell her "how we're doing etc :-)") and informed her of myself and my SM's 'insubordinance.'
Yea that's right... we were being insubordanant by looking out for the barista and the customer's safety with 250 degree milk... Har...
Anyway, the DM, after a lot of sweet talking, calmed the customer down and explained how we can't go over 200 blah blah blah.
Customer was fine for about 2 weeks.
2 Weeks later we got a call from our DM saying the customer bit back AGAIN this time to our Regional manager. So after that day, we were told to steam that customer's drink to 250. All of the shifts at my store were informed of this "one customer" exception. I dont work at Sbux anymore and don't know if 250 degree customer still goes in.
Sorry. I'm all for giving customers what they want but 250 degrees?
Posted by: Sheik | January 21, 2012 at 03:09 PM
@Herman, triple tall is a tall size cup with three shots of espresso.
Tall drinks typically take one shot. Grande and Venti take two shots.
Also, the mom above is getting four pumps of mocha, which is one extra pump. Tall drinks usually take three pumps.
Posted by: drive | January 21, 2012 at 03:13 PM
I'm no Bill Nye, though I am a Starbucks shift supervisor, but I've always wondered about extra-hot drinks... Don't hotter liquids cool off at a faster rate than cooler ones?
Posted by: Dat Scroth | January 21, 2012 at 03:15 PM
This comment veers ways off topic, but what I have to share may get Starbucks in some scalding hot water.
Last time I went in to a local Starbucks, I noticed, dwarfing the employee TIPS jar, was this opportunity to donate, to get a free patriotic bracelet, and, as advertised, "Create Jobs for U.S.A.!!" Turns out,however, Starbucks is now panhandling for banks.
Yes, I read the fine print and learned that 100% of your donation goes direct deposit into a network of banks, the (Opportunity Finance Network), so they can lend money to "small" business. All donations are non-transferable and final, interest and principle returned reserved solely for the transgressions of the OFN.
Wouldn't it make more sense to give small businesses 100% of the spare change collected in the box sitting next to the Starbucks "tips" jar?
But Instead, these shady characters use their polished, .org, "CreateJobs" charity front, which essentially siphons our conscious away from giving that change to those holding cardboard signs, and rerouts it directly to the banking sector. Strange days indeed.
Here's the website: http://www.createjobsforusa.org/
Posted by: Lisa Wells | January 21, 2012 at 05:44 PM
Lisa -
And? The whole point (at least the way I understand it) is that small businesses have a harder time getting loans to either start a business or continue running it because they're considered riskier investments. Starbucks is trying to encourage banks to be more willing to give loans to small businesses and startups by creating funds already there and available in the bank. The easier a time small businesses have getting the money to operate their businesses, the more willing they are to hire new employees and put people back to work. Of course they're going to "reroute it directly to the banking sector." The banks are the ones from which small businesses are seeking the loans!
Posted by: LV | January 21, 2012 at 07:08 PM
Today my tall decaf soy caramel macchiato had 4 inches of foam- literally. This happens frequently and I feel like I'm getting screwed on the drink. Does it mean the soy is being steamed too hot? I like the barista, but what's up with that much foam? If I say "light foam", she doesn't put any head on it at all for a caramel drizzle. Advice on how to order a caramel macchiato so there is a decent head, but not a half cup of foam please- and no hate appreciated.
Posted by: Nandypants | January 21, 2012 at 07:31 PM
Four inches of foam would be pretty much the whole cup, and I find that very hard to believe...
Posted by: Martha | January 21, 2012 at 07:46 PM
250 degree milk isn't possible. It honestly burns and explodes around 190. 200 degree drink order = 180 degrees, 250 degree drink order = 180 degrees.
As the first poster explained, milk is "scalded" and no longer creamy and sweet after around 160. Why anyone would insist on spending 4 dollars on a ruined latte, I'll never understand.
Posted by: me | January 21, 2012 at 08:02 PM
@Martha:
I couldn't believe it either...but that's what I got today for a drink- a tall cup of foam, but at least it was sweet foam!
The cup was as light as a feather-if I'm off by an inch-sorry-I get a little passionate about my macchiatos! LOL!
Posted by: Nandypants | January 21, 2012 at 08:08 PM
Milk boils at 212 degrees, just like water... maybe a few degrees higher if it's whole milk or breve. 250 degree milk isn't possible, since by that point most of it would've boiled over and out of the pitcher, probably only the barista's hand.
No DM or RM would ask anybody to do that, and if he or she did, they would be corrected after the baristas and store managers explained that it wasn't possible.
Posted by: Waltie | January 21, 2012 at 08:32 PM
@Nandypants
Maybe they thought you meant an actual macchiato and not a deconstructed vanilla latte with caramel drizzle. ;)
Posted by: molly | January 21, 2012 at 08:37 PM
@Molly-I absolutely get your point!
I realize I am not ACTUALLY drinking a real macchiato!
Like I said it was tasty foam!
Posted by: Nandypants | January 21, 2012 at 08:48 PM
By "Real Macchiato" and "Actual Macchiato" I assume you are both referring to an Espresso Macchiato, which describes espresso marked with foam. This is no less real or actual than a Latte Macchiato (of which the caramel macchiato is a sweetened derivative), which describes steamed milk marked with espresso.
Posted by: rpm | January 21, 2012 at 09:04 PM
only way to get 250 degree milk is to serve it in a pressure cooker! Must be fun to sip out of...
Posted by: Judy | January 21, 2012 at 09:25 PM
Yes, hot drinks cool faster than cooler ones (Newton's law of cooling - the rate of cooling is proportional to the difference in temperature), but as the hot drink cools, its rate of cooling slows down
Posted by: Judy | January 21, 2012 at 09:27 PM
Extra Hot, no Foam kills me sometimes. The hotter the milk, the more foam is created, the longer it has to sit for the foam to separate. Arg.
Also, regarding the four inches of foam caramel macchiatto, I recommend having your drink remade to your satisfaction, and even tell your barista, "I would like about a half inch/quarter inch (whatever) of foam." Trust me, we get much more specific and outrageous demands than that... and any barista worth their green apron will happily remake it.
Posted by: hearbutloud | January 21, 2012 at 11:10 PM
@rpm Actually, a macchiato is espresso marked with foam. ;)
Posted by: molly | January 21, 2012 at 11:38 PM
@Sheik:
I am sorry, but how is it possible to steam something up to 250F? This is far above water boiling temperature (yep, I know, we steam milk which however is mostly just water and has similar physical characteristic in that matter). I am not so sure it is physically possible at all to heat up any liquid above it's boiling point without changing air pressure conditions. If you leave milk with the steamer on on manual (lever in the position of half size of normal inclination) and keep steaming above 212F all you get will be bubbling-volcano-lava-lake-conditions at the bar with boiling milk scattering all over the place and burning bystanders.
IMHO there is some health and safety rule about not steaming anything above (if I am recalling properly) 190F. If there is a customer asking me to steam milk to temperature of any value higher then this one from H&S rules I wouldn't do this. I wouldn't do this even if DM or RM told me to do so. Moreover I would complain straight to head office about such irresponsible person and I am pretty sure (s)he would be in serious trouble as H&S rules are not here to make exceptions because someone has jackass-like idea and we want to please him/her. I've seen a barista getting really nasty burns just from colombia shuttle urn's hot water (which is not even 200F), I am not going to risk getting splash of boiling milk in my or my colleagues faces.
And going back to the original topic, there was a thread here once with similar issue. Someone said back then that it's scientifically proven that human tongue is not able to differ temperatures above some particular temperature - which I unfortunately don't remember.
What I don't like about xhot drinks is that many people order x-x-x-hot soy and want it to be totally wet. You can't really have these two things. Soy is getting very frothy, even if I hit the jug on the counter and spoon-out froth it is still not really wet. I can keep it for some time before pouring into the cup so the froth separates from milk but this takes minutes and as you probably guessing also makes milk getting cooler then it is expected to be by the customer, not mentioning a customer complaining about waiting time.
Posted by: medevacs | January 22, 2012 at 02:44 AM
@Waltie states the reason quite nicely. The physical laws of nature on this planet don not make 250F possible, that's what the customer should be told, no attitude just fact. Some customers need to be educated because they obviously are not. I would tell my SM, DM, RDO, or higher than that the same thing. I was taught in hotels the customer is not always right if the expectation is not reasonably possible. There are things we can not control, this is one of them.
Did anyone notice that on the FORTUNE top 100 companies to work for SBUX leveled up from 97 last Jan. to 73 this time around. Cool.
Posted by: usorthem3 | January 22, 2012 at 09:12 AM
Hey everyone! I've got a bit of an issue at my store and I was hoping I could get some feed back on it. A shift and a Batista have been "secretly" dating at my store. Over the last few months everyone has put the pieces together about their relationship and are furious over the issue. We've also come to realize that our manager most likely knows about the issue but isn't going to do anything about it. We arent sure what to do about the situation. If a few of us call partner contact can we do it anonymously or do we have to provide information? I would love your feed back! Thank you!
Posted by: Rulesneedtobefollowed | January 22, 2012 at 11:05 AM
@Rulesneedtobefollowed: Just out of curiosity, apart of the fact that shift+barista is not allowed by the contract what is wrong with this situation? Are you experiencing any negatives? Do this shift supervisor favours this barista or sth like that? Because otherwise I don't really see what's the point of reporting it to the HQ, if everyone is happy?
Posted by: medevacs | January 22, 2012 at 11:13 AM
I always order my drinks extra hot, no foam. Otherwise, my drinks were always lukewarm and full of foam!
Posted by: ct | January 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM
@medevacs
The relationship is not allowed! They think there being sneaky but when they come in together telling everyone that they're going to some party its just not right. they both do the minimum amount of work, making the rest of us do the extra work. The manager has told another Batista "if somethings going on between them I don't want toknow about it". I mean really?! No ones happy about what's going on. I'm not really sure how you would get that from the first comment I left!
Posted by: Rulesneedtobefollowed | January 22, 2012 at 12:12 PM
@Rulesneedtobefollowed:
"I'm not really sure how you would get that from the first comment I left!" - do you mean how I wouldN'T get it from the firs post? Oh I wouldn't because you just wrote you guys are not happy about but there is really no any reason mentioned why you are not happy. Just now, in the second post you wrote "they both do the minimum amount of work, making the rest of us do the extra work". So, if they are lazy to work in the front because they are too busy talking care of each others in the back of the house then this for sure is the reason to complain. Otherwise, calling HQ only because "The relationship is not allowed!" is a little bit like calling the police because you see your neighbour smoking pot - such a big crime...
Funny thing on my mind, maybe they were always lazy and being lazy is what brought them together ;)
Posted by: medevacs | January 22, 2012 at 12:48 PM
Why haven't any partners brought up the fact that we aren't supposed to steam milk over 190?
Also, I had a guy tell reluctantly order a hot chocolate from me and said 'But I don't want it if it's not 250 degrees.' And I laughed obviously, because that's not a drinkable temperature, and told him we couldn't go above 190. He said he'd had one at another store. I told him that in fact he did not have a 250 hot chocolate at another store because milk doesn't exist at that temperature. He repeated that another barista at some other store had done it for him, so I apologized and told him they had lied to him flat out. Haven't seen him since. Feels good, man.
Posted by: P | January 22, 2012 at 01:05 PM
@medevas
I'm sorry I don't mean to come off like a jerk. I guess I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you say its OK for them to date. The hand books we got a few months back clearly stated that one of them must transfer or both get fired. Plus they're suppose to tell the manager immediately.
Posted by: Rulesneedtobefollowed | January 22, 2012 at 01:15 PM
@P: "Why haven't any partners brought up the fact that we aren't supposed to steam milk over 190?"
I have. See my previous posts (that's in the longest one here).
Posted by: medevacs | January 22, 2012 at 01:51 PM
@rules: Sheesh, take a pill and calm down. You see anywhere where medevac said "It's OK for them to date"? If you think it's such a big deal then take it to the manager or the DM. But you better have some proof to back up your whining.
Posted by: frapatte | January 22, 2012 at 02:04 PM
@Rulesneedtobefollowed-- I still don't understand why you're having such a problem with it. (Seriously, not trying to be rude.) And if you're the one who goes above the manager's head and complains about it, you'll probably be seen as the store narc. It's not like they're stealing...
Posted by: Martha | January 22, 2012 at 02:09 PM
"If a few of us call partner contact can we do it anonymously or do we have to provide information? "
The ethics hotline can be confidential, but since you would be calling with an accusation about two partners in your store, and investigation would probably take place. If for some reason are wrong about their relationship, you could be in trouble.
Do you know for a FACT they are dating?
If not, I say do nothing and ignore the gossip in your store.
Posted by: Waltie | January 22, 2012 at 02:52 PM
@med, you're right. I interpreted your line as meaning some rule extra-starbucks.
Posted by: P | January 22, 2012 at 02:54 PM
I agree with rules. We have these rules for a reason and I don't understand why it's so hard for ppl to follow them it puts the whole store in an awkward position obviously you have never had this situation before. Neither of them get their jobs done and there is favoritism going on while everyone else picks up their slack and enough is enough
Posted by: Billy bob | January 22, 2012 at 03:13 PM
190 is the highest we're allowed to steam. And no matter how much higher a customer tells me to steam it to, I will not go above 190. One near-3rd degree burn has taught me that I will not "just say yes" no matter what.
Posted by: Clark Kent | January 22, 2012 at 03:24 PM
Please create a Starbucks Gossip Google Plus page. Would be nice to have topics that are posted here to also be posted on Google Plus so that it appears in my stream. You could even start a Google Plus hangout and talk Starbucks with others on webcam.
Posted by: anon | January 22, 2012 at 03:33 PM
@waltie, yes the whole store knows they are indeed dating. They told another partner inconfidence and when another confronted them they told him the truth aswell.
Posted by: Billy bob | January 22, 2012 at 04:02 PM
If everybody in the store knows they are dating, I'm sure this will resolve itself very soon. Send an email to the DM.
Posted by: Waltie | January 22, 2012 at 04:19 PM
This isn't blog worthy. It's just not. Standard is 160 extra hot is 180. Period. And I have told customers no to above 200 degrees and been backed up. Guess our leadership teams cares more about our safety than some nut job.
Posted by: truestory | January 22, 2012 at 08:24 PM
By the way, I can tell what temperature the milk is by ear. Thanks.
Posted by: truestory | January 22, 2012 at 08:25 PM
Milk does not scald at 160, it scalds after 180. An opinion does not a fact make: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded_milk
Posted by: checkyourfacts | January 22, 2012 at 08:30 PM
@molly incorrect. Starbucks has you marked it with a dolop of foam, but starbucks changed what the drink is. It means to mark the foam with the espresso.
Posted by: checkyourfacts | January 22, 2012 at 08:38 PM
@ Dat Scroth I've seen that story before about the tips jar. It may have been a blurb in a finance magazine about donations. I think there are better uses of our money like Food for the Poor.
Posted by: KBTS741 | January 22, 2012 at 10:22 PM
I work in downtown Seattle. On January 1st, minimum wage went up from $8.67 to $9.05. I currently make $9.30/hr, so before I was making 63 cents above minimum, and now I only make 25 cents above minimum. I hear there are cost of living raises, but when do we get them? Am I going to be bumped back up to 63 cents over minimum? Also, I'm eligible for my 1 year raise on March 2nd. Am I going to get the cost of living raise AND a 1 year raise? I think it's only fair if I get the 37 cent raise to get me back to where I was above minimum, and then whatever additional raise my manager thinks I deserve after that, otherwise I'm kind of going backwards.
Does anyone know how this works? I thought I'd ask here before I bothered my manager about it.
Posted by: confused | January 22, 2012 at 10:44 PM
You manager has a barista need to know about the minimum wage increase that was emailed out about a month ago. In my market, all new baristas were bumped up to $9.05 and if they'd been in position for at least six months $9.50. No change if they were already above the six month rate. This wage increase has already gone into effect, check your paycheck. Based on the results of your performance review, you should get a raise on top of that in March.
Posted by: sbux4ever | January 23, 2012 at 07:33 AM